Americas Army 3

[Lepardi 0]

1.0 really did look like that.  And 2.0 came out in 2003.  Splinter Cell, Raven Shield, and Max Payne 2 also came out in 2003, making the graphics in this version of AA look fairly weak also.

1.0 really didn't look like in your picture. And I was talking about the UE 2.0 engine which was in AA in the versions 1.0-2.3. Version 2.4 introduced the UE 2.5 engine.

Those graphics on my pictures you see right there are the same except for the playermodel on the bottom picture which was slightly updated around 2.0.

[W0lle 1042]

Lepardi

After 2 years and > 300 posts you should know the rules no?

Do not quote images.

Do not hotlink images > 100kb.

[max power 21]

2.5 came out in 2005. In this year, Chaos Theory, Quake 4, and BF2: Special Forces came out. America's Army has never been 'ahead of its time' as you are asserting.

[Lepardi 0]

2.5 came out in 2005.  In this year, Chaos Theory, Quake 4, and BF2: Special Forces came out.  America's Army has never been 'ahead of its time' as you are asserting.

It was, in 2002. And I don't understand what are you talking about 2.5. I just said that AA version 2.4.0 introduced the new game-engine called Unreal Engine 2.5, and versions before that (1.0-2.3) had the Unreal Engine 2.0 as game-engine. And those pics I posted represent the same graphical quality as you can see in 1.x versions. It was ahead of it's time when being the first game on UE 2.0 engine in 2002.

[max power 21]

Naw.  Engines represent technical capability, not the over arching graphical quality.  Graphics quality is a function of detail, artistic skill, artistic direction, and how they use the engine's shader capability.  The over arching graphics quality in AA was not great.  If you can post a pic of 1.0 to support your argument, and is better than contemporary games in 2002, then do so.  You've been posting screens from 2003 and 2005, though, and that's not relevant to your argument.

Here's some more screenshots from 1.0 (some of them may be newer, since one of the sites made the review in 2003):

http://www.game-over.net/reviews/2003/01/shots/795-shot-3.jpg

http://www.game-over.net/reviews/2003/01/shots/795-shot-6.jpg

http://www.actiontrip.com/reviews/pics/americasarmy4.jpg

http://www.actiontrip.com/reviews/pics/americasarmy2.jpg

http://www.game-over.net/reviews/2003/01/shots/795-shot-10.jpg

http://www.game-over.net/reviews/2003/01/shots/795-shot-2.jpg

Don't get me wrong, the graphics are nice but not ahead of their time.  Another game that came out in 2002 was Mafia:  City of Lost Heaven.  That game smashes America's Army in terms of graphics quality.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/52/Mafia-CoLH_Street.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped....uit.jpg

[Lepardi 0]

You've been posting screens from 2003 and 2005, though, and that's not relevant to your argument.

It is relevant, since the game uses the same graphics engine in versions 1.0-2.3. Therefore, it looks exactly the same, so it doesn't matter if the pics are from 2003. That's exactly how it looks in 1.x, apart from the updated gear in the playermodel.

And the quality in those pics you just posted is really poor and doesn't even have the graphics turned to maximum.

[max power 21]

You've been posting screens from 2003 and 2005, though, and that's not relevant to your argument.

It is relevant, since the game uses the same graphics engine in versions 1.0-2.3. Therefore, it looks exactly the same, so it doesn't matter if the pics are from 2003. That's exactly how it looks in 1.x, apart from the updated gear in the playermodel.

And the quality in those pics you just posted is really poor and doesn't even have the graphics turned to maximum.

Post some shots, then. And the graphics engine, like I said, isn't the defining factor in graphical excellence.

[walker 0]

Hi all

Same old shoe box engine. Same as COD4 and all the other bunny hopper invisible wall rubbish. Aircraft you cannot fly, mountains you cannot drive to etc. etc. good for paintball and nothing much else.

Corridor and shoebox for when you want to imprison your mind.

Sadly walker

[Lepardi 0]

Hi all

Same old shoe box engine. Same as COD4 and all the other bunny hopper invisible wall rubbish. Aircraft you cannot fly, mountains you cannot drive to etc. etc. good for paintball and nothing much else.

Corridor and shoebox for when you want to imprison your mind.

Sadly walker

CoD 4 doesn't use Unreal Engine 3.0

There are also mountains you can drive to in AA.

[dm 9]

CoD 4 doesn't use Unreal Engine 3.0

Its more about the comparison - you're stuck in a tiny playing area with a big fake skybox around you.

[Lepardi 0]

CoD 4 doesn't use Unreal Engine 3.0

Its more about the comparison - you're stuck in a tiny playing area with a big fake skybox around you.

It's a CQB game mostly, but there are huge maps as well in AA... so no that tiny area you are 'stuck' at.

[Lepardi 0]

AA3 site has been opened, many new screenshots and some in-game footage in the developer video.  http://www.aa3.americasarmy.com/#

[Heatseeker 0]

Looks real crappy, like they ported the old game to Unreal 3 or something.

And the OPFOR is now called NME and use fake weapons.. lol?

[Lepardi 0]

Looks real crappy, like they ported the old game to Unreal 3 or something.

Yeah it looks kinda crappy in the vid, but the new screenshots if you scroll down show pretty significant improvement to the old Pipeline. The game isn't even at beta status yet so..

Also a new article just released with a few pics of some of the new maps: http://www.wargamer.com/article/2639/america%27s-army-3-details

[Heatseeker 0]

Yeah it looks kinda crappy in the vid, but the new screenshots if you scroll down show pretty significant improvement to the old Pipeline. The game isn't even at beta status yet so..

Also a new article just released with a few pics of some of the new maps: http://www.wargamer.com/article/2639/america%27s-army-3-details

They licensed Unreal 3 for that? .

Lets hope the gameplay is really perfect then..

[max power 21]

Yeah it looks kinda crappy in the vid, but the new screenshots if you scroll down show pretty significant improvement to the old Pipeline. The game isn't even at beta status yet so..

Also a new article just released with a few pics of some of the new maps: http://www.wargamer.com/article/2639/america%27s-army-3-details

They licensed Unreal 3 for that? .

Lets hope the gameplay is really perfect then..

+1

[walker 0]

It's a CQB game mostly, but there are huge maps as well in AA... so no that tiny area you are 'stuck' at.

Hi all

In reply to Lepardi

It is not CQB

You do not bunny hop around like a demented kangaroo in CQB; it screws your aim, tires you out, makes loads of noise, gives away your position and most definitely does not stop you being shot. Nor do you sit in a little shoebox or wonder around in magic corridors in CQB; the outside world still exists.

Forgetting these things will bite you in the ass here in reality as it does in ArmA.

That is why the American Army chose VBS over America's Army.

Its real name should be America's paintball for the unfit.

Kind Regards walker

[MehMan 0]

There's no bunny hopping in AA. They've dealt with that very swiftly and are better on that side than ArmA. For example, if you come upon a small ledge you do not have to run all the way around it to cross it but you use the jump feature.

[walker 0]

Hi all

In Reply to MehMan:

ArmA I can climb/vault over walls download Ace and upgrade to 1.15 beta.

AA3 is using the Unreal engine is it not? You say they have switched off bunny hopping. I will wait and see bet it is the first thing to get turned back on, on the public servers for the bunny hopping whining CTF crowd.

It is still part of the shoebox, corridor invisible walls crowd. Probably still has that stupid gun on camera rail dolly effect and laser guns. No vehicles, no real tactical movement. Rambo stand in the middle of the street and spray crud and la-la land weapons.

A prison for you mind.

Kind Regards walker

[Lepardi 0]

Hi all

AA3 is using the Unreal engine is it not? You say they have switched off bunny hopping. I will wait and see bet it is the first thing to get turned back on, on the public servers for the bunny hopping whining CTF crowd.

It is still part of the shoebox, corridor invisible walls crowd. Probably still has that stupid gun on camera rail dolly effect and laser guns. No vehicles, no real tactical movement. Rambo stand in the middle of the street and spray crud and la-la land weapons.

A prison for you mind.

Kind Regards walker

Nope, they won't add jumping to AA3. Weapons will use real ballistics, and the bullets will leave at the end of the barrel, as they should.

If you'd really play AA, you would know that tactics are in a much bigger role than in ArmA. And there is no such thing as rambo stand in the middle of the street, you are dead the moment you do that.

[walker 0]

Hi all

In Reply to Lepardi:

How can you possibly say you can move tactically when you are stuck in a corridor or shoe box that prevents flanking with invisible walls?

You are aware that the flank attack and protecting your open flank are tactics 101 are you not?

I have been on AA servers just the same as COD4 and all the rest of the bunny hopper CTF games Rambo is how they play. Installed them and uninstalled them and went back to ArmA. They even have an abusive name for people who find a defilade position they call them "CAMPERS!"

Defilade is also Tactics 101.

Of course because you cannot apply flanking in these shoebox and corridor shooters, you can not use the prime tactics 101 counter to defilade. In essence it teaches you to think one dimensional, cutting you options to the frontal Rambo attack that is so prevalent in AA.

As I said just a prison for you mind.

And so tactically incorrect with such devastating negative training effect that the US Army ignored its investment in AA and bought VBS instead.

Kind Regards walker

[Baff1 0]

I'm pretty sure I saw photgraphs of Dyslexi and some soldiers using giant AA rigs with projection screens and M4 rifle controllers.

I doubt very much whether the US army uses VBS to teach flanking manouvres.

Unreal maps are plenty big enough to using flanking tactics.

[shinRaiden 0]

I offer this one point to ponder, with the caveats that 1 - this is personal observation, 2 - I'm not a subject matter expert, and 3 - the case in point was a limited evaluation of a specific research project.. That said...

Several years ago I had the opportunity to listen to a series of presentations given regarding the adaptability of entertainment mediums to instructional applications. (Technically it was a symposium on the status and assessment of Serious Games.) During the course of the presentations, several individuals cited a case where Army Research Laboratory had gathered a very large number of recordings of team matches on a given AA map, loaded them into a massive data warehouse, and ran an exhaustive statistical process resulting in a statistically 'optimal' route/sequence most likely to 'own' the map. This data could then be overlaid to provide near-instantaneous assessment if users in subsequent scenarios were deviating from 'optimal', and by how much.

While this was cited anecdotally, and in hindsight perhaps more as an indication of 'positive disruptive educational innovation', I did have an immediate concern however that inherent design nature of AA1/2, and from the screenshots I strongly expect as well from AA3, to by habit and design continue to confine AA's orientation to an n-way mirrored route corridor system. The core of my concern rests around the nature of functionally symmetrical mirrored checkpoints, where all too often the gameplay becomes rather a meta-game of checkpoint blitzing and rating-point 'achievements'.

That to many may be enjoyable. Fair enough. But it doesn't necessarily appeal to others, myself included.

One other point worth noting. The AA franchise is 'owned' in the management sense, with an obligatory, and reasonable measure of personal sense in the organization, by the Army's Recruiting Command. Any debates or discussions, pro's or con's, about its technical applicability in secondary roles as an internal training tool does not diminish the fact that it has been highly successful in supporting a significant long term improvement in Army PR and recruitment, its primary role. Secondly, in perhaps an unanticipated side-benefit, it has successfully proven that non-traditional or entertainment products can be valuable and effective tools for various tasks and requirements.

[Lepardi 0]

How can you possibly say you can move tactically when you are stuck in a corridor or shoe box that prevents flanking with invisible walls?

What prevents you from flanking in AA?

[walker 0]

Hi all

In Reply to Lepardi: microscopic maps.

Kind Regards walker