Damage to Weapons

[l mandrake 9]

Please model damage to weapons in Arma2.

I find it frustrating in Arma that you can shoot several rounds into an enemy's rifle and cause no damage. In reality, high-velocity rounds will smash an Ak74 and cause it to stop working (or even better, to explode in its operator's hands when fired   )

[Average Joe 0]

Heh im afraid thats asking abit too much, OFP2 perhaps.

[sk3pt 0]

OFP2 perhaps.

What's that supposed to mean ?

[Praelium 0]

If you shoot the guns in STALKER then they will stop working. It's a cool concept, but weapon damage or malfunctions probably won't be in the game because it'd just be frustrating.

[Pulverizer 1]

How about just shooting weapons out of hands. Would be very simple to implement.

[sk3pt 0]

How about just shooting weapons out of hands. Would be very simple to implement.

+1

THAT would be beyond awesome !

[max power 21]

How about just shooting weapons out of hands. Would be very simple to implement.

Yeah seriously! Either that or make them not affected by bullets at all. It's a bit annoying that soldiers with stingers on their backs are virtually invulnerable from certain angles.

[CyDoN 0]

(or even better, to explode in its operator's hands when fired   )

red wire? green wire? BOOM

lets be serious...

[Praelium 0]

How about just shooting weapons out of hands. Would be very simple to implement.

+1

THAT would be beyond awesome !

I think that would be worse than guns jamming for two reasons:

1. It takes more work to try and find the gun on the ground than to simply reload. Assuming you can even find it, you still need to pick it up and reequipped it.

2. It'd look unrealistic and just silly.

[Pulverizer 1]

I agree that [with ArmA animations] it would be a mess getting it back, you'd probably have to leg it or use your sidearm most times.

But unrealistic how? I would say that IRL there absolutely has to be a certain likelyhood that a person who is shot to his weapon (or his arms/body/head etc) will drop it, out of surprise or pain. And he probably wouldn't care that much about how silly he just looked like.

I don't see how jamming it and then fixing it by reload is more realistic. Both have roughly the same effect though, you will lose ability to fire back for a short perioid of time.

[CameronMcDonald 146]

I think the whole weapon dropping idea could be done quite well, although the script implementing it would probably also need to do some switchmoving to prevent the player whose weapon has been shot mincing around slinging an invisible rifle on his back.

But the idea is a good one. I just wonder - is it possible to detect when your weapon cops a bullet? Suitable commands exist for leg and arm wounds, but weapons would be an entire new kettle o' fish.

[Praelium 0]

I agree that [with ArmA animations] it would be a mess getting it back, you'd probably have to leg it or use your sidearm most times.

But unrealistic how? I would say that IRL there absolutely has to be a certain likelyhood that a person who is shot to his weapon (or his arms/body/head etc) will drop it, out of surprise or pain. And he probably wouldn't care that much about how silly he just looked like.

I don't see how jamming it and then fixing it by reload is more realistic. Both have roughly the same effect though, you will lose ability to fire back for a short perioid of time.

Well, both may not be totally realistic, (I honestly don't know), but I've grown to accept that reload a gun will unblock a jam from other games, like STALKER. On the other hand, I've only seen shooting guns out of peoples hands on the old Western shows.  

Besides that, another difference is how you would go along to correct the problem. With the gun jamming, simply press R and wait for the animation to finish. If the gun falls on the ground, you have to find it, (which could be difficult if you're in long grass), then get in the right position to be able to pick it up, and finally, go through the animations to get and equip it. Now, imagine you're a frustrated player: Which one would you prefer?  

As far as the idea goes, change it so you just loose aim, (as grenades in Arma currently do), and I'll be happy.

[POTS 0]

On weapons jamming, it would give the "russians" a considerable advantage because AK's are known for never jamming. While the m16 and m4 are the jam masters, they jam at least 5 times every time i've gone shooting with them. My ak-103's have never jammed and i've never cleaned them.

[max power 21]

Regardless of their apparent reliability in adverse conditions, I don't think any weapon is known for its ability to take bullets and still operate.

[wipman 1]

Hi, the main problem when you hit an AI weapon, what most allows

this to happen, it's the very blocky and 100% inaccurate Geometry

LOD that don't have the same meassures that the weapon; this

makes that hit an AI weapon be like 3 to 4 times more easy to happen

than an AI hitting a unit armed with for example, my M4's pack weapons.

The bad point of make the engine disable an enemy weapon will be

the ammount of scripting that it'll require, same for the player; even

to make the weapon fall to the ground will consume alot of resources.

Thing that the current ArmA, it's famous for: consume resources.

If you gonna apply the drop weapon thing to every unit player or

not, then you'll have to make that (AI) unit know where his weapon

has fallen and to retake it from the ground; even... inform the

officer... after a while "if you don't find it" for make your officer

know that he've one less able rifleman in the squad, all this will

eat alot of memory; and i fear how the anim for that will be.

Probably too slow, silly or robotic; which will be something that

complain about and make all kinds of funny jokes about the "flying

bricks" and how "the drunk look alike AI look for the keys of the

house". So i don't mind that nothing happens if you hit an AI or

player weapon other than deflect the bullets, ever, that the Geo

LOD of the weapon be accurate (have the same meassures that

the weapon) in length, height and thickness.

I've killed a few AI's with the deflected bullets on the weapon of

his squad mates, which was funny; and there's a "western movie"

sound for when a bullet hit your weapon, it has happened to me

from time to time. So my only request related with this... will be

to make the Geometry LOD of every weapon, accurate. Let's C ya

[Pulverizer 1]

Quote[/b] ]even to make the weapon fall to the ground will consume alot of resources.

A "Hit" eventHandler would hardly require any resources at all. It would just need to be updated to detect weapon hits.

The AI would have to be updated too of course, to get their weapons back. In fact, might as well improve them to pick up any nearby ammo and weapons on their own when needed, like any sane player does without the leader's specific orders.

[paragraphic l 2]

Quote[/b] ]even to make the weapon fall to the ground will consume alot of resources.

A "Hit" eventHandler would hardly require any resources at all. It would just need to be updated to detect weapon hits.

The AI would have to be updated too of course, to get their weapons back. In fact, might as well improve them to pick up any nearby ammo and weapons on their own when needed, like any sane player does without the leader's specific orders.

1. Download SLX Mod

2. Start ArmA with the mod

3. Shoot at a soldiers hand/weapon

4. See it fall out his hand

5. See the AI searching for their weapon and picking it back up... if you let them.

It's allready do-able in ArmA and doesn't cost that much resources, if any extra at all.

Weapon damage would probably be more difficult and heavy on your system.

[wipman 1]

Hi, if the (AI) unit is closer to a weapons crate.. a vehicle that have

some guns in the trunk or whatever... what weapon will it take?, the

weapon that it've lose in the ground...? or a weapon from those

weapons crates or vehicles that it haves close?, and what weapon

will it take?, will it take a basic AR when the unit was a grenadier?

just for get out from the firefight... or will it take the same kind of

weapon that it had in the hands before lose it (in case of have access

to the same kind/tipe of weapon)?. Because it's just not that simple...

there're many options that should be checked at the time of add this

feature to the game's AI's; and it should work and work well, with

all the AI's without make 'em look like drunk monkeys in the middle

of a lead rain; For many reasons aside of the functionality. Also

the shape of the anims, to make it (the process) fluid and not

robotic, to make the AI's make the smartest decision for every

situation; under covert fire or under sniper/precision fire. For me,

will be enough as i've said, to have accurate Geometry LODs in

every weapon, instead triangles bigger than the weapon and that

are not even at the same axis height from where the rest of the

weapon's LODs are. That's almost like cheat. Let's C ya

[Pulverizer 1]

The weapon wouldn't drop further than 1m, no physics should be applied to it such as sliding down on hills. The rare case of there being another weapon even closer could very well be neglected, or made so that the AI prefers it's original weapon type but settles for something else if ammo is not present etc. It's extremely simple logic, compared to a problem like "where is the optimal spot for me right now in terms of cover and firing angle when I know there's enemy in directions x and y".

[wipman 1]

Hi, the unit should lose/drop the weapon, not the ammo; maybe

lose the magazine that it had in the weapon... so he'll had to reload

in order to get back to the party; but it shouldn't lose the ammo as

it's supposed to be stored in his vest the "ready to spit" one and

the bigger supply in the backpack awaiting for a rest to reload the

vest's magazine pouches. Let's C ya

[sparks50 0]

I have heard that there was a instance In Ohio where a SWAT sniper shot the weapon out of the hands of a suspect. The suspect was sitting very still in a chair, with the pistol pointed towards the ground, and the pistol just dematerialized in hes hand and he was arrested.

Its a very rare tactic though.

I don't think there should be a weapon fall to the ground feature, just make sure that the weapons doesn't work as some sort of super shield any longer.

[sk3pt 0]

Whatever they do, I hope they don't make it so the bullets penetrate right through the rifle. Then it's better to leave it as is, maybe except for stingers and such...

[max power 21]

Whatever they do, I hope they don't make it so the bullets penetrate right through the rifle.

Why?

[50.cal 10]

Hi all!

I'm new here and I've been browsing the forum for few weeks already.

Really good ideas and remarks around here!

Concerning this topic here's some of my toughs :

I heard the game will feature correct bullet path deviation/deflection and penetration.

With this in mind I think the weapon will not prevent the unit to take damage anymore if it takes a direct hit on its weapon.

And if LODs are accurately adjusted then ricochet should do the trick too! Since the rifle is hold close to the body I think a ricochet on it would result in a positive hit 99% of the time.

What do you think about that?

Edited April 11, 2009 by 50.cal
precision

[An-225 0]

I covered this topic a little in my geometry thread.

This is a feature that is DEFINITELY needed, either damage, or shooting it out of the person's hands.

A gun is not a super shield. You cannot expect it to take a 5.56 to the fore section and continue firing.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=71935

I raise the issue of inadequate hitboxes around weapons - those guns are large super shields. A shot to the stock should knock it out of a unit's hands, and a shot to the fore should make it stop working. I doubt the guns will act as super shields in ArmA 2, but damage would certainly be nice.

Edited April 11, 2009 by CH-46