31st NORMANDY MOD - WW2 Â -BETA RELEASE

[Aqu 0]

Yeah. But I would like it to work as realisticly as possible if player gets an idea to start flaming something which does not catch fire. Also I think it should catch people behind a shallow cover like a trench if the flame get close enough.

The Ai usage at the moment: AI hasn't got the idea it has a very low velocity so it shoots too low and sometimes burning himself. The flame tank has bit more range and muzzle velocity (the range comes from that) and AI manages to hit better with it. Although even if you are on the same side, you better run because AI tends to burn everyone and everything around. I Put one AI flame tank with supporting inf squad into the Rahmadi village and drove around in M113. Result: It got me eventually, but before that AI had killed the own support squad and dozen houses  

Anyway I got an idea that urban flamethrower deathmatch might be fun sometimes  

[rip31st 98]

Heres a WIP pic of the map:

Some of the red dots are new towns, you can see where I added a road network.  Some of the vegetation shows but doesn't do it justice. There is a lot of variation in the height of the terrain.

You can see I've worked heavily on the Cherbourg Pennisula ( West side of the map there). Prolly about 20 new towns so far.

Got some new sounds to put in the mod as well from HiFi. We will see how it goes in that respect.

[Aqu 0]

Good job adding those towns.  

I noticed from the current version, there are none of the big sector airfields around London, I think. These being Kenley,  and Biggin Hill south of London. Hornchurch east of London. North Weald NE and Northold west of London. They had better runways than those local airfields. Other sector fields inside the map area were Tangmere bigger distance east of Portsmouth and Middle Wallop good deal north of Southampton

Making maps of how it was over 60 years ago is not easy if  you have to use modern maps as a basis. When I made maps for Steel Panthers I had some basic rules if I had to use lot of imagination.

- Cities and big towns are today bigger than those days -> make them smaller

- the above rule does hold necessarily for small towns and especially villages (people moved more to bigger cities)

- Less woodland around bigger towns today. In coutryside this could be actually reverse.

- Trees, bushes seems to surround some rivers (left to keep erosion in control or too muddy aland to cultivate?)

-Highways/Freeways with many lanes were basicly German only thing before the WWII. If you see such a thing in a modern map the chance is that if there was a road in the 30-40s it had 2 lanes. There are lot more freeways in Germany today too.

- The tarmac/asphalt surface was rarer in those days. I think you can't go very wrong if you reduce the road level 1 step from modern. A good quality 2 lane tarmac road with road markings today was maybe narrower tarmac road and no road markings or maybe even a dirt road back then. Those shiny white road markings on Sahrani roads do not look '40s to me

- Should be suspicious about big human made landmarks, such as open mines, large industrial areas, airfields, race tracks etc. There is a big risk they are from post war times. I know from experience that it feels stupid if you find out lot later you made a wrong decision to put it on the map.  

[rip31st 98]

-Most of the towns I've generated were based on photography from time life and maps I obtained.  One of the historians working with us found a gentlmen in his late 80's over in the UK that is providing us with some really good quality maps he has from the time frame.  He doesn't want them to sit in an attic collecting dust before he dies, so he's passing them on.  

The single lane asphalt roads and dirt roads are what we are using.  I don't want to go with marked roads.

We are keeping the towns to a small size as towns back then with the exception of metro areas were rather small.  

I'm not sure on the foilage and debris placed around the rivers to prevent errosion.  The Caen canal (I know its not a river) from many WWII photos was pretty cookie cutter, uniform and clear of debris if you ask me.  

I know there is a ton of airfields I need to place.  Biggin hill has been requested the most.  Many people want to see it put it.

I'm trying to model the landscape based on photos from the period as well.  The treelines and hedgerows that were famous.  You also have to remember there are some pretty wide open areas as well. - Not as wide open as I have now

But were working on that.

[oldbear 390]

Just a side note about the "open spaces" seen on aerial pictures : these spaces are mostly behind the beaches and inland around rivers. These were swamps areas dried for pasture in summer but more or less flooded during winter. The Germans had flooded these areas during Normandy battle sometimes under 3 feet of water. So there were flat spaces but not so comfortable places to land.

[toadball 35]

Does that image include contour markings? If so, it looks a tad, well pancake like.

Although, I am looking forward to seeing more of these towns.

Was just wondering, have you considered adding, ground littler (rubble etc, damaged houses etc) to add a bit more of a combat ambience to the map?

[Enigma85 2]

No,

By the looks of it the contour markings have been lost on the picture.

If you look at the screen shots Rip posted showing the changes in the contours you'll see it's anything but pancake like

clutter would be good.

but if i remember rip will be pushing the object limit of the map as it is.

i think vegetation and villages/towns should come over clutter in terms of priority

[toadball 35]

hehe I was merely asking as i'd not looked to closely at most recent shots and figured that the changes were localised to small areas but as I've been proved wrong I'm fairly happy.

Warfare will be less like the Somme and more like Normandy then I hope ^^

[Aqu 0]

-Most of the towns I've generated were based on photography from time life and maps I obtained.  One of the historians working with us found a gentlmen in his late 80's over in the UK that is providing us with some really good quality maps he has from the time frame.  He doesn't want them to sit in an attic collecting dust before he dies, so he's passing them on.

Now that is great to hear. Many of the "freetime mapmakers" do not have accurate maps easily obtainable. Especially outside the major battle areas.

Quote[/b] ]

I'm not sure on the foilage and debris placed around the rivers to prevent errosion.  The Caen canal (I know its not a river) from many WWII photos was pretty cookie cutter, uniform and clear of debris if you ask me.  

No, not the Caen canal. Wide rivers and especially canals seem to mainly without much surrounding forests. If you look at airphotos of lesser rivers and streams, even in farmland areas, it is not uncommon to have such vegetation left around rivers. I don't know why...flooding, erosion, too rocky, angry elfs, what ever. But if you have to use imagination in some places I would try to alternate the pattern.

Quote[/b] ]

I know there is a ton of airfields I need to place.  Biggin hill has been requested the most.  Many people want to see it put it.

If you also put some industrial targets in England (I prefer the real ones mainly) I could make a battle of Britain campaign.

To another matter. You haven't posted the weapons/armor data yet, but I made some actual firing tests while testing teh P-38. Something to chew on

P-38

M2/M53 0.50 call MG: 27HP (100% kinetic)

20mm Hispano cannon: 40HP (60% explosive)

5in HVAR rocket: 380 HP (90% explosive)

US 1,000lb GP bomb (M65): 5,000HP (95% explosive)

Test firing at Pz-IVh, side armor c 100m away

---------------------

20mm: 41 hits to destroy

.50:  64

5in: 2

bomb: 1 near miss inside 12m radius

Tiger

---------

20mm: 135

.50:  180

5in:  not known, but >6 anyway

bomb: 1 near miss next to the tank

What I can see..

- MGs and cannon too powerful against a tank

- Rockets suck big time

- Bombs rock

- Tiger is too hard to destroy?

[rip31st 98]

Well if you're looking for contour lines on a map with a 75m terrain grid, then you can see why there is a lack thereof. Visitor is different from the game as it does not display all the countour lines. That pic of the map I posted is from Visitor.

I've got rocks, grass clutter, downed trees, blown up buildings, rubble. Working on dynamic mud that comes and goes following rain. I hope to put some new custom scenery objects in like windmills and bridges. All these things take time.

What Old Bear was saying. I share the same opinion. Seems like when I look at the photos those are the open areas I see as well.

Aqu - The armor values are coming soon bud. Yes the tiger is strong

[archsceptic 21]

I know you've got a lot of work in front of you Rip31st - and it's always difficult to gauge these things, but do you think there might be some new content in time for Santa Claus to put something inside his sack?

(Not wanting to sound ungrateful for what you've done already).

[rip31st 98]

I know you've got a lot of work in front of you Rip31st - and it's always difficult to gauge these things, but do you think there might be some new content in time for Santa Claus to put something inside his sack?

(Not wanting to sound ungrateful for what you've done already).

   

Cough...cough...cat's out of the bag.

[oldbear 390]

For those having an interest in Normandy Campaign during WW2, I suggest to have a look at a very interesting chapter of "United States Army in World War II European Theater of Operations" :

Cross-Channel Attack by Gordon A. Harrison

These web pages are full of maps and pictures giving a good idea of how it was during the D-Day and days after.

[rip31st 98]

Yes! That is a good site. I have seen it many times before.

[rip31st 98]

Here is a quick WIP vid of some of the terrain I am working on:

Pardon my flying skills!

[sparks50 0]

Looks good!

[cedyl 0]

Hello, i don't remember if you have created the airfield and village of CARPIQUET, 3 kms west of CAEN.

[Enigma85 2]

Hello, i don't remember if you have created the airfield and village of CARPIQUET, 3 kms west of CAEN.

I don't recall it on the map when I've been playing.

Do you live there by any chance?

[rip31st 98]

Hello, i don't remember if you have created the airfield and village of CARPIQUET, 3 kms west of CAEN.

I will put it in there, it was part of the Canadian objective of D-Day. I will post up pics in a few days so keep an eye out.

[rip31st 98]

Map WIP update:

-Added several new towns

-Added hundreds more miles of roadway

-Added map names

-Added Carpiquet Airfield

Here are some screenies to give you an idea of what's going on in the map department.  Keep in mind its far from done.  I'm taking reasonable requests on towns that you may want to add:

[rip31st 98]

[rip31st 98]

And someone asked for Carpiquet AF/town.

[Namikaze 0]

Is that all going to be on one map? If so, that's going to be humongous.

[Aqu 0]

Looking good

Few things what comes to my mind

- The Carpiquet airfield was just south of the town. Now it seems to be west of it, if the the village like blob on the map is Carpiquet.

- To model the US Cobra operation following towns would be nice to see: Avranches south of Granville, Mortain east of Avranches, south of Vire and some bigger nearby town like Brecey.

- More towns between Caen and Falaise (For modelling Op "Totalize" by Brits) and east of Caen (op. "Goodwood").  (Vimont, Potigny, May-sur-Orne, Troarn, subrurbs of Caen...). Benouville,Ranville,Ouistreham,... near the Pegasus bridge.

- It would be nice to see some small villages, hamlets and farms between the towns so that the terrain is more interesting. I saw some in the old version, but I hope we see more of them.

- This might be because of unzooming the map or maybe they are still just place holders, but some of the roads look too straight. Also I'm not saying I see the following in your map, but say just in case: What ever bend and curves a road makes, there is a reason for it - going round a hill, forest, swamp, river etc. If it makes a bend in an open field without a reason, it looks odd.

I hope that didn't sound just whining, because I really had to think to what was missing. It really looks good otherwise.  

[cheritto 0]

wahou its a great job. I just hope it will convince European servers to play your warefare mission.

It could be a good idea to implement some ww2 road signs and custom objects to give some realism to map