Spore

[Baphomet 0]

I have reinstalled OFP at least eight times during the course of four years.

Every six months or so I'd reformat my pc. I think I may have gone a year, once.

Anyhow. I find EA's sales tactic utterly loathsome, it's openly insulting and greedy, it's small minded, draconian if you will.

And yes. I've been told I'm lacking in the optimism and enthusiasm department... many times. I seriously can't help it. It's looking pretty bleak out there...

[USSRsniper 0]

I don't see anything wrong with DRM.... Remember you are buying license to use the software, you don't completely own it. So all lawsuits will fail agains't DRM

But 3 installs limit is crazy, so if you reinstall 3 times what ahppens after? can you geet more reinstalls by emailing EA support?

[Baff1 0]

I don't see anything wrong with DRM.... Remember you are buying license to use the software, you don't completely own it. So all lawsuits will fail agains't DRM

But 3 installs limit is crazy, so if you reinstall 3 times what ahppens after? can you geet more reinstalls by emailing EA support?

Actually, you do own it. What you don't own is the copywright.

The right to reproduce and distribute it.

There are no limits to the amount of your machines you may install your software on under EU or US copywright law.

All law suits against DRM have suceeded so far. (Sony, Ubisoft are two examples off the top of my head)

The whole "you only own a lisence" thing has no basis in law at all.

While no case involving a EULA has ever reached, federal/national/high court, (no precedent has been set),plenty have been ruled on in district courts. (e.g. Adobe Vs Novell Corp Inc)

In almost every case the Judge has ruled that software is owned, and not lisenced.

Just becuase a big company says something is legal, doesn't make it so. Laws are made in parliaments.

Ubisoft forum manager outlined Far Cry 2's DRM (Digital Rights Management) system and it seems that it will be one of most well behaving DRM systems of all time.

- You have 5 activations on 3 separate PCs.

- Uninstalling the game "refunds" an activation. This process is called "revoke", so as long as you complete proper uninstall you will be able to install the game an unlimited number of times on 3 systems.

- You can upgrade your computer as many time as you want (using our revoke system)

- Ubisoft is committed to the support of our games, and additional activations can be provided.

- Ubisoft is committed to the long term support of our games: you’ll always be able to play Far Cry 2.

The main difference between Far Cry 2's DRM and Spore's is the ability to revoke your activation when you uninstall the game, thus allowing you to reinstall it on any other PC.

http://www.megagames.com/news....y.shtml

[zinc 0]

I don't see anything wrong with DRM.... Remember you are buying license to use the software, you don't completely own it. So all lawsuits will fail agains't DRM

But 3 installs limit is crazy, so if you reinstall 3 times what ahppens after? can you geet more reinstalls by emailing EA support?

Are you certain about that statement?

Melissa Thomas is suing EA for the invasive DRM bundled with Spore. Kamber Edelson, who is the lawyer representing her was involved in the Ubisoft 'Starforce' lawsuit, and the Sony BMG XCP Rootkit lawsuit, (the DRM placed on audio CDs). And we all know what happened to those two, dont we?

Spore Lawsuit: http://www.courthousenews.com/2008/09/23/Spore.pdf

Mass Effect:

http://www.courthousenews.com/2008/10/08/MassEffect.pdf

This is just the tip of the iceberg, two top lawfirms are currently putting together a case against every publisher who released a game bundled with the SecuROM rootkit.

http://www.girardgibbs.com/Spore.a....dV3ZwEA

*Edit: Third Class Action Lawsuit Launched Against EA

http://docs.justia.com/cases....1

BTW, If any of you are thinking of buying "DCS Black Shark" just remember that a new version of 'Starforce' will be used as copy protection for that sim, so keep an eye on your cd/dvd drives guys.

[dmarkwick 261]

Actually, you do own it. What you don't own is the copywright.

The right to reproduce and distribute it.

Actually, rather sadly, that is false. You do not own anything when you buy a game other than the physical CD and the box & manual. What you're paying for is a license to run the software. You don't own the software in any real sense.

As for activations, the finite activation schemes mostly allow you to "get back" an activation if you uninstall the game. So for those people who regularly reinstall the game for whatever reason, an uninstall first will retain that activation.

Obviously that doesn't help with catastrophic crashes of hard disks, but then again most finite activation schemes also offer the use of a case-by-case review of that situation.

[.kju 3244]

DMarkwick it depends on the country.

For most your statement is not true from what I know.

[dmarkwick 261]

most your statement is not true from what I know.

Q it depends on your country

[Baff1 0]

I don't know about Russia, but EU and U.S. laws are almost word for word identical.

Actually, you do own it. What you don't own is the copywright.

The right to reproduce and distribute it.

Actually, rather sadly, that is false. You do not own anything when you buy a game other than the physical CD and the box & manual. What you're paying for is a license to run the software. You don't own the software in any real sense.

Incorrect. You are making a retail purchase.

Entering into a lisence agreement is a rather different affair.

The only contract you have entered into is between you and the retailer. The Contract of Sale.

You have no contractual obligations to the manufacturer at all.

When you buy a game you own a game. You may resell it, or even resell parts thereof.

Once sold, you are the owner. The complete owner. To do with as you wish, (within the legal constraints of your society).

N.B. You do not own the Copywright.

A lisence agreement is something different.

If you were to contact EA and sign an agreement before purchase with a representative of that company, and that representative accepts your agreement, that agreement would then be a legally binding contract.

You could lisence a software from them in this way.

An example of this might be a school that lisences Windows from Microsoft.

Most people however don't purchase directly. They buy retail products and are covered by retail law.

If you bought a retail product and then after purchase got in contact with EA and agreed to a lisence and they replied to you that they had accepted, you would have entered into a binding agreement with them. (So don't ever do this).

Agreements, contracts and lisences may be made verbally or even electronically.

Verbal ones are difficult to prove, electronic ones such as clicking "I agree" are perfectly binding.

However after you "agree", a representative of the company must still contact you to say that they have accepted it too.

Obviously this is a very expensive way to sell products. Which is why games companies won't do it. If you had to pay a sales team to contact each and every individual end user personally it would drive the price way up.

You won't see software lisences being used outside of the corporate market for items of hundreds or thousands of pounds in value becuase of the high costs of trained sales staff.

What we have currently is the shrinkwrap EULA. A quasi legal invention of the software industry. It has no legal basis. Maybe one day it will. Who knows?

To part I'll leave you with the words of Judge C Prendergast of the Californian district court.

"Under First Sale Doctrine, a software is a purchase not a lisence"

(Adobe vs Novell).