Thompson Submachine Gun

[Burt 0]

Hello. I am working on a Thompson submachine gun. For those that don't know, the Thompson (also called the "tommy gun") is automatic submachine gun that fires .45 caliber bullets. It was popular with both gangsters and law enforcement officers during the Prohibition era in America. It was also used by the US Army in World War 2 and the Korean War.

I am making this addon to learn how to use Oxygen 2. If all goes well, I would like to work on a full 1920s gangsters vs. lawmen mod.

Well here is a very early WIP shot of the right side of the gun in Oxygen 2. This is my first major attempt at modeling and it is still pretty rough:

All sugestions are welcome.

UPDATED: Fixed several obvious problems and abandoned the drum mag.

[AtStWalker 0]

nice work so far, can u give us more pics ?

btw.. http://www.gunpics.net/ironsights/tommy.html ^^

[da_aNimal 0]

how about that machine gun which had a drum magazine i dont remember its name some bright spark must know it

[Burt 0]

The tommy gun can use a drum magazine. I was going to model it in, but it was too much trouble than it was worth so maybe in a later release.

[MehMan 0]

You're going for the M1928 model, right? or the A1?

[manzilla 1]

You're going for the M1928 model, right? or the A1?

From first glance it looks like a 1928 with a Cutts compensator on it.

Although the skinnier barrel and cocking handle on the top looks more like a model 1921. It was over the trigger in the 1921 and over the back of the grip on most other models until the M1 when it was moved to the right side.

I'd love to be able to provide with pictures of my Thompson's but unfortunately I'm in Grand Cayman for the next 6 weeks.  

My apologies.

[Col. Faulkner 0]

This is evidently supposed to be a 1921 or 1928 model but is

really a confused mixture of all sorts of things. It apparently

has an M1 butt, a modern civilian long barrel and other

incorrect details.

From first glance it looks like a 1928 with a Cutts compensator on it.

Although the skinnier barrel and cocking handle on the top looks more like a model 1921. It was over the trigger in the 1921 and over the back of the grip on most other models until the M1 when it was moved to the right side.

The barrels on the M1921 and M1928 models were exactly

the same, as was the position of the cocking handle (the

position - "over the trigger" or "over the back of the grip" -

depends merely on whether the gun is cocked or not). The

longer barrel is usually fitted to modern manufactured semi-

auto only guns (the longer barrels are required to conform to

US laws).

The "ironsights" views posted above are from a WW2

production gun. The fixed aperture sights shown there were

not used before the 1940s.

[Pathy 0]

I must note that it looks like you've made a 2d cutout of the model, and plan on "joining the dots". No offence but this is going to be ineffectual, and I doubt you'll be pleased with the result. A much better way to model, would be to do it component by component.

Start by experimenting with a cylander for the barrel. As you say its your first attempt to model i'm going to assume you don't know O2 all that well, apologies if i'm wrong! You can Create>Cylander from the menu, and extrude it/shape it as you wish. Also, remember that copy and paste (ctrl C, ctrl V) are your friends, as are the X and Y buttons along the top of your O2 toolbar (they lock movement to that axis). Oh and the scale tool (particularly the new fangled one) is a godsend too.

Also, you don't have to make the model as one big block, so the barrel doesn't need to be connected to the pistol grip, for instance. Still, I salute your venture into the rather painful world of O2 modelling, and wish you the best of luck. With some perseverance, you'll soon find the quality of your work improves immeasurably!

[Burt 0]

a confused mixture of all sorts of things.

Who told you lol

Yeah this is more of a "testing Oxygen and trying to make something pretty cool" thing than a "total realism" thing.

[manzilla 1]

The barrels on the M1921 and M1928 models were exactly

the same, as was the position of the cocking handle (the

position - "over the trigger" or "over the back of the grip" -

depends merely on whether the gun is cocked or not). The

longer barrel is usually fitted to modern manufactured semi-

auto only guns (the longer barrels are required to conform to

US laws).

The "ironsights" views posted above are from a WW2

production gun. The fixed aperture sights shown there were

not used before the 1940s.

Yeah your right, my apologies. I was thinking of the M1923 barrel. The M1921 and M1928 have the same barrel. The cocking handle was also misstated by me. Your right they are in the same place, depending on whether open or closed.

But that ain't an M1 butt. The M1/M1A1 has a rounded concave notch on the top, the prior models are angled. Although the overall size of it does look like an M1, the angular ones aren't quite as pronounced.

[MehMan 0]

i am wondering what would be reaction on forum if he was not member of moderators-CWR mod? people are afraid to cryticise CWR mod members , because in their topic since 2006 they show critics=ban 48 hours or more :/

lolwut. If I cared a bit more I'd write a detailed crit along with a few steps. I think he knows that his model is far from brilliant, but hey, it's a first step. so that's why nobody is giving him shit and going: ZOMG YOUR FIRST MODEL IS FLAT LOLOLOLOLO.

As for the model itself, well, you made it into a single flat plane, not a very good modeling technique. Try modeling different components, such as the barrel which is going to be the easiest, first. Make a simple 12 sided cylinders(remember, excesive use of polygons is both hard on the game and on the maker once it comes to unwrapping), with three or four segments. Then conform it to the barrel on the picture, leaving out the ribs, just making a smooth barrel. I'd suggest leaving the ribs for later once you get a hold of it all. Then do the sights, starting with a box for a base. This is where you'll need a good ammount of refrence to get the width right and shape right. If O2 has an extrude function make good use of it. As for the main assembly, make it from a box and then cut pieces out of it. The stock can be made out of a box also, with a simple center edge to make it appear round, and adding two edges more, so from a top view the profile for the stock should look like this edgewise:

| | | | |

from the front or the rear:

/\

/ \

| |

With the second edges pulled out a bit so that it creates a semicircle.

now I hope that helps you somewhat.

[wipman 1]

Hi, i don't know if this may be utile or not, are some photos of a

Tommy M1928-A1:

Thompson M1928-A1.

Thompson M1A1.

Enjoy it, the chechen war mod may find it interesting too. Let's C ya

[MehMan 0]

Also, if you want, I can share my refs with ya.

[Burt 0]

Yeah all pics would be greatly appreciated. I am going to rework the model using the methods people mentioned and I'll post some pictures soon. Thanks for everyones help.

[Binary 0]

Eh.. Grow up Vilas..

Anyway - looks cool so far Burt, a Thompson is propaly a good place to start modelling.. Also - as far as the details go, I think you shouldn't focus so much on the very, very specific details, like the shape of the trigger og the length of the magazine. It's always nice to add extra touches of realism, but It's even more nice to release something, instead of clinging on to it forever, just to get the barrel that extra 2 inches correct

Good work & good luck

[JdB 151]

*Shoves aside the whining*

No first model has ever been pleasant to look at (except perhaps the person that created it having a sense of achievement, but that only lasts until you see points that can be improved upon, and you either fix the model, or start on a better one). I can remember when I first used BRSSEB's tutorials to do an M1911A1. I used a separate box for every change of direction, without attaching them to eachother, so I ended up with a gastly model made of 50+ boxes. In my next model I added depth (a weapon that looks like a box when you switch to another view is just a stepping stone on the road to perfection).

In the one after that I started making components separately like they are in the real weapon (like said by several others before), I didn't like the way my models looked in O2/Bulldozer, so I started rendering them in 3DS MAX, which taught me some of the basics of that program.

Many models later I started texturing them. Sure it looked awful, as I didn't UVW map the models back then, but just used O2 to apply standard textures that I found on Google.

Later I tried mapping out my models in O2, but I found it lacking, so I switched to 3DS MAX for the mapping as well, because someone suggested I should try it. UVW mapping is an elaborate process (most of the times not all that complicated, but rather a lengthy and repetitive process if you want to do it right).

Then I thought well I'm already mapping and rendering in 3DS MAX, so why not make the entire model in it in the first place. Then ArmA hit, and I was forced to learn more advanced mapping technology, which I am still struggling with today.

It took me about 4 years to get to a point where I hear others saying that what I make is good.

Point of the story: Never say someone's early work sucks, because you would be denying how you yourself first started out. You can't judge someone as a fully blown artist when they've only just started on their first model. I learned the most from experienced people helping me with my problems, and explaining how they do things. People get better through constructive criticism, not through saying how badly they suck.

Good luck Burt.

[Col. Faulkner 0]

But that ain't an M1 butt. The M1/M1A1 has a rounded concave notch on the top, the prior models are angled. Although the overall size of it does look like an M1, the angular ones aren't quite as pronounced.

Admittedly it's hard to be sure from a silhouette, but the

profile of the silhouette looks more like that of the fixed

butt of the M1/M1A1 than that of the push-button

detachable one that was fitted to the M1921/28 models.

@ "Burt"

Personally I'd not have chosen the Thompson as a first

subject as the shape of the receiver in detail, especially

at the front, is quite tricky to capture properly. I recall

that I needed several attempts to get it. Presumably you

fancy a challenge.

You should also perhaps consider how incompatible the

forward pistol grip is with ArmA. It looks really awful when

in game as the firer's fingers "cut through it". I hope, but

don't really expect, that this limitation might be removed in

ArmA 2. I shelved my WW2 commandos project, along with

my own Thompson model, partly because the ArmA men

couldn't hold any of the weapons correctly. You could

substitute the straight foregrip for the forward pistol grip -

although that detracts considerably from the 1920's gangster

image that you were going for.

[manzilla 1]

But that ain't an M1 butt. The M1/M1A1 has a rounded concave notch on the top, the prior models are angled. Although the overall size of it does look like an M1, the angular ones aren't quite as pronounced.

Admittedly it's hard to be sure from a silhouette, but the

profile of the silhouette looks more like that of the fixed

butt of the M1/M1A1 than that of the push-button

detachable one that was fitted to the M1921/28 models.

@ "Burt"

Personally I'd not have chosen the Thompson as a first

subject as the shape of the receiver in detail, especially

at the front, is quite tricky to capture properly. I recall

that I needed several attempts to get it. Presumably you

fancy a challenge.

You should also perhaps consider how incompatible the

forward pistol grip is with ArmA. It looks really awful when

in game as the firer's fingers "cut through it". I hope, but

don't really expect, that this limitation might be removed in

ArmA 2. I shelved my WW2 commandos project, along with

my own Thompson model, partly because the ArmA men

couldn't hold any of the weapons correctly. You could

substitute the straight foregrip for the forward pistol grip -

although that detracts considerably from the 1920's gangster

image that you were going for.

I don't see it. I've never seen nor owned an M1 with an angled top like that. I'm just pointing out the most visible feature on the silhouette and until the top notch gets more rounded there's no way that could be an M1.

Bottomline, until the work progresses it looks like neither. We could bicker about it all day.

Burt, Keep plugging away it will get there.

[Col. Faulkner 0]

Bottomline, until the work progresses it looks like neither. We could bicker about it all day.

Right. It looks like neither. Anyway, I don't want to bicker

over it since the model is still very far from completion. I

hope "Burt" will study closely his photo' references and

reshape it correctly.

[W0lle 1042]

@everyone, especially vilas:

I have enough now of this topic hijacking. If you don't have anything constructive to say, then keep your comments at yours or take it to PMs.

This thread here is about the weapon Burt is trying to make.

It is not about who's the better addonmaker, or who did what first and in a higher quality nor is it about who helped whom with what.

The next one abusing this thread for his off-topic crap will face a 48h vacation from the forums.

Thread cleaned up, all irrelevant posts have been deleted.