Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Balschoiw

Radovan Karadzic sacked

Recommended Posts

I´m surprised that noone already posted this. The mastermind behind the ethnic cleansing during the 3,5 year military campaign in Bosnia has been arrested. He´s the one responsible for 250,000 people dead and 1.8 million people driven from their homes along with the political lead of serbia at the time and Gen. Ratko Mladic who also is already put to court.

It´s been about time to bring this "hero" to justice and I really hope that justice will hit him hard...very hard. The ongoing support of nationalists in serbia and bosnia for this butcher was and is disturbing if you see what this guy is responsible for. Public executions, ethnic cleansing, thousands of mass-graves that are still being discoverd.

Karadzic: Genocide suspect had long evaded justice

Good riddance !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it's a shame that it took so long - and it's an even bigger shame they still haven't managed (or weren't willing) to catch Mladic. But you're right: Good riddance.

Hopefully the trial will help make more serbians aware of what kind of monsters their 'heroes' actually were.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, Karadzic of course is a war criminal, no doubt about it. But the cheering is something i don't really get. It is quite understandable for those who suffered from him and Mladic and Co. But we, the western people, should better remain in silence. We declared an illegal war on Yugoslavia - and yes, it does not matter, if you find the war a brutal ethnic cleansing. Either you respect sovereignty or you don't. There is just one instance in the world that is 'allowed' to declare a mandate for such a war, and that's the UNO. That mandate followed days later. What about Birma? What about North Korea? What about Sudan? A clear case of double standards! Serbs also suffered from Croats (reestablished Ustasha) and muslims (jihadists from middle-east and Bosnia).

Being myself a vet from KFOR 1999 (MNBS Prizren) i must say, the brainwash from the NATO, the Bundeswehr, the gouvernment, the media worked well....until we reached our AOR. We were told the serbs are again performing ethnic cleansing again, but when we came there, from thousands of serbs just 100 were left. The rest fled due to bombings, the UCK and stuff. When we ended our deployment, there were just 10 left. A lot were murdered by the Klingons (the UCK/TMK) or just fled to Serbia. The whole story of Serbs, Croats, Muslims and is quite compicated. And declaring one single side to be responsible for the wars in the Balkans, is dull and not objective. How grotesque it really was, is written in Paolo Rumiz's "Masken für ein Massaker". A serb infantry detachment positioned above Sarajevo called in some fire from bosnian troops located on the other side to prevent themselves from being ordered over to the frontline. There were busses starting in Germany, one manned with Croats and one with Serbs. These so called weekend warriors went to the balkans from friday till sunday. A little skirmish here and there and then back to Germany to be colleagues again for the next five days. Also the changing alliances are clear indications for that. First the yugoslavian army versus all (Tito declared Yugoslavia as a single state, where no statemust leave that confederation). Than the army split. Now Kraijna-Serbs versus Croats and Bosnians. Croats with Serbs versus Bosnians and then again Serbs versus Bosnians and Croats...if that's not absurd what is then.

To speak of the Kosovo, the whole freedom fighter thing is a lousy lie. I was told from a former 'freedom fighter', that most of them simply bought an uniform when the war ended, then came to the Kosovo and told they were fighting serbs. Kosovo is the main route for drugs and stuff to Europa and therefore one must say, the UCK is like the mafia. Contract killing, setting houses on fire (3-4 fires per night in summer 1999), mutilations, protection money and so on. Of course there were some real idealistic men, but from what i've seen, felt and heard, most of those freaks were just AK waving idiots that even threatened us with certain death when it came to disarming and re-establishing law and order. The current leader of the Kosovo, Hashim Thaçi, is known for war crimes on Serbs as well, but what did the western world? They cheer him. Sad, simply sad!

The topic is hard, and this is of course also just a single view on it. Rumiz stated: It was not a war between ethnicities it was a war between multicultural and metropolitan citizen and boorish villagers. And what is true for the heroes of the Serbs must also be true for the heroes of Croats, Muslims and even Albanians.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I´m not aware that Bush, etc are guilty of ethnic cleansing. Spokesperson, if you got nothing to say on the topic just p**** off. I´m tired of your hijacking of threads and I´m tired to read your brainwashed propaganda bullshit. Why don´t you just go to a "long live communism" forum and try to revive the old spirit there ?

Up to some point your presence here at the forums was interesting, but now you simply act like an outdated parrot who wants to rewrite history. Please do that elsewhere and try to respect the initial theme of a thread. If you can´t do that, just stay away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I´m fully with you Hoot on the matter of guilt, factions, the nationalistic tendencies and all that. I´m aware of the problems and inconsitancies that arose before, during and after the conflict, but there are some people who that load of extraguilt on their shoulders and of them without any doubt is Karadzic.

The reason why the NATO got involved imo is that Yugoslavia is on the european landmass not far away from core european members that were very worried about the negative sideeffects of a war at their borders. Quite natural if you ask me. The washy ROE´s that were in place when the first forces deployed and did their service there have been a result of this. I´ve been there with an expeditionary commando before the Bundewehr actually deployed there and if I have learned one thing it was that noone was free of guilt down there. Noone. But this actually doesn´t matter if you are part of a peace-enforcing or peacekeeping force as you simply have to stand between the factions and keep them from killing each other. The rest is not the business of soldiers with a mandate. This war actually was much more than just ethnics fighting each other. Russia was involved, the NATO, on serb side the Chetniks tooted their ultranationalist visions with weaposn, etc, etc.

Anyway, in any conflict there are the "highlites" of cruelty and the ones responsible for it. And one of the highlights certainly is and was Karadzic. Therefore imho opinion it´s a good thing that he finally got caught and will be taken to justice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do fully agree with you. But i think it was more about on how to to empocket Russia more and more. Before the fall of communism in the 1990's, Yugoslavia was one of the most important partners to the western world, since Tito made clear that Yugoslavia is a federative socialist state and that it is independant from the Soviet Union. Not every citizen of the Warsaw Pact states was allowed to travel to Yugoslavia. After the fall, the World Bank began to halt cash flow. What then started the breakdown of Yugoslavia. Wounds from WWII broke up again and so one thing led to another. I strongly recommend reading Paolo Rumiz's book, because it deals really with the beginning. It starts with Temeshvar, Romania.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote[/b] ]We declared an illegal war on Yugoslavia - and yes, it does not matter, if you find the war a brutal ethnic cleansing

illegal by laws but certainly not by morals.  I am not a juristocrat, for me laws are and always will be imperfect. If ethnic cleansing does not matter then what does?

Quote[/b] ]Either you respect sovereignty or you don't

Oh I respect it, but I am a talking about personal sovereignity and not a national one.

But again, this topic was discussed a million times and I am positively suprised people still find the energy to tackle it once again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I completely support this arest!!!.

and allso i'm waiting for General Ratko Mladić too.

This way at some point and in some way Serbs, as a nation, will not be hostages of a hadfull of people who did things in a name of nation but not asking them.

As a Serbian i'm tired of every single war in a past decades and nationalistic shit!.

Whatsoever i'm for cleaning your own yard and garbage disposal as a first thing to do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote[/b] ]We declared an illegal war on Yugoslavia - and yes, it does not matter, if you find the war a brutal ethnic cleansing

illegal by laws but certainly not by morals.  I am not a juristocrat, for me laws are and always will be imperfect. If ethnic cleansing does not matter then what does?

Quote[/b] ]Either you respect sovereignty or you don't

Oh I respect it, but I am a talking about personal sovereignity and not a national one.

But again, this topic was discussed a million times and I am positively suprised people still find the energy to tackle it once again.

And that's why i came up with Birma and Sudan, North Korea and so on. Moral seems to fit to some things and to some things it seems to does not. Birma and Sudan are well known for ehtnic cleansing and therefore i do ask why the people with such moral standards like you seem to have don't demand intervention there. Find it absurd or not, those are internal affairs: Or somebody will start to find a moral reason to invade your homeland, sooner or later.

Ignoring sovereignity and decide what is moral and what is not, looks like: The survival of the fittest. You criticize this way if a state oppress its citizen and i do if a state dictates another its moral standards. The world seems more complex than black and white and there is no common solution for it. The sad thing however is, those decisions to invade are made by those who calculate in other terms than most of us would perhaps do. I had hundreds of hours of dicussions like that back in 1999 with my family (before i went to Kosovo) and we didn't find a solution to save both, sovereignity and human rights. However, attacking a sovereign state is not reconcilable with law of nations. That's UN charter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good to see this fiend arrested at last. Though I wonder how many of the foot soldiers who did the actual dirty work have been brought to trial? There seem to be some well-informed people around here (excluding you Spokesperson), I'm curious to know.

I've got a few friends from and in that part of the world, one quote I remember is "What the Germans did (the holocaust) was clinical and robotic, what we did was personal."

60 years after WWII the Germans and Italians seem to get on alright with the rest of Europe, will that ever be the case in the Balkans?

Here in Australia, some of the younger kids (mid-teens) of people who settled here after or during the wars, carry on with their Serb/Croat nationalist bullshit, as if being forced to move to the other side of the planet wasn't a big enough hint about where that shit gets you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

as foil gets off Karadžić there is more and more interesting info

here is Radovan on some public discussion about health (first from the left), though nobody at a time didn't knew.

9774518114885d72896fb3724475036_extreme.jpg

he had identity of some sort of a spiritual teacher worked in private clinic...and thats how he earned money.

who would suspect xmas_o.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I completely support this arest!!!.

and allso i'm waiting for General Ratko Mladić too.

This way at some point and in some way Serbs, as a nation, will not be hostages of a hadfull of people who did things in a name of nation but not asking them.

As a Serbian i'm tired of every single war in a past decades and nationalistic shit!.

Whatsoever i'm for cleaning your own yard and garbage disposal as a first thing to do.

Great post! Nice to see that serbian people are ready to denounce themseves from the acts performed by the former regime.

An interesting detail in the arrest affair was that a new chief of serbian intelligence service was appointed day before the arrest took place, and the old one was sacked.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Great post! Nice to see that serbian people are ready to denounce themseves from the acts performed by the former regime.

Don't let be decived by one post smile_o.gif there are others who don't think like me. I'm not general picture...just one small particle.

You need a lot of courage to look intoyourself, admit it, forgive yourself, take responsibility and face consequences. Is so simple yet hard. It's the process we need to go through as a nation.

it's just a matter of time...and my thinking is: we are on a hell of long jorney. banghead.gif

this is a video of Kradžić paricipating on some healt seminar...unbelievable but true wow_o.gif

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7520306.stm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

knowing someone who served as UNPF at Bosnia around 95 in Sarajevo, didnt really like to talk about that much these days but he did said what he have seen was some of the worst(i mean, discovering a mass grave or watching children killed by mortar shell aint a funny sight rgr?)

some pictures he posted on forum, putting together for compare

fra24sarajevoaut5.jpg

the below one is taken when he when back there around 03~05

anyone know whats the name of the building?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Ti0n3r
I wonder when they catch Bush, Blair and Cheney.

I herd u leik mudkipz?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Arrest him? he should be killed without egtting arrested for what he did.... But they jsut arrest him and treat him like he killed only 1 person. crazy_o.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I wonder when they catch Bush, Blair and Cheney.

Irrellevant spamming. consider yourself warned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote[/b] ]Arrest him? he should be killed without egtting arrested for what he did...

What is the bigger punishment:

- being killed, dead in a minute

- watching a grey wall for decades, having to watch how your wife selects a new man, your children grow up and realize what their father has done and to see how the country you committed those violent acts for simply expels you and joins the EU in the longrun with a mix of ethnicies you were unable to extinguish.

I guess the later is more punishment and by not killing him you don´t give those a chance who want to make a hero of him as it will be laid plain open what disgusting acts he has committed.

Killing someone sometimes isn´t the greater punishment. It´s an easy way out for him with a chance that the death will contribute to a "hero-legend".

Slaughterers like him deserve nothing easy.

@4 in 1:

Those are the UNIS towers nicknamed Momo & Uzeir for Serbs and Muslims.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's hope he doesnt keel over and die before he can actually be brough to justice, like Milosevic did. whistle.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
anyone know whats the name of the building?

UNITIC Business Center towers.

They contain your typical business tower setups with shopping centers and a cinema.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I wonder when they catch Bush, Blair and Cheney.

Why did i knew beforehand, that i`ll find exactly this post in this thread. icon_rolleyes.gif

Good that they have him, he had too much support from high ranking people. Else they would had him much earlier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I wonder when they catch Bush, Blair and Cheney.

Why did i knew beforehand, that i`ll find exactly this post in this thread. icon_rolleyes.gif

Good that they have him, he had too much support from high ranking people. Else they would had him much earlier.

Its true, supposedly his arrest came within a week of the old head of the Serbian intelligence being replaced by a new (and supposedly pro Western) guy. Coincidence? Probably not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I´m surprised that noone already posted this. The mastermind behind the ethnic cleansing during the 3,5 year military campaign in Bosnia has been arrested. He´s the one responsible for 250,000 people dead and 1.8 million people driven from their homes along with the political lead of serbia at the time and Gen. Ratko Mladic who also is already put to court.

It´s been about time to bring this "hero" to justice and I really hope that justice will hit him hard...very hard. The ongoing support of nationalists in serbia and bosnia for this butcher was and is disturbing if you see what this guy is responsible for. Public executions, ethnic cleansing, thousands of mass-graves that are still being discoverd.

Karadzic: Genocide suspect had long evaded justice

Good riddance !

I have a feeling that this guy didnt actually kill all those people himself and probably had help .

Example .. i say "hey lets go trash that car "

.. and you all say " yeah cool idea .. lets do it " ..

so of you go to trash the car while i watch from the other side of the street .

In my mind the ones who commit the actions are more guilty than the one who suggests it , we all have a free will .

3.5 years is plenty of time to say .. wait .. i think this is wrong.

Soldiers have a duty to humanity to refuse to carry out orders they believe to be wrong...Ehren Watada for example , but on the other boot most miliatary enforce the rule that refusal to carry out orders can result in court martial .. catch 22

But if the orders fit with your ideals then you will carry them out willingly .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3.5 years is plenty of time to say .. wait .. i think this is wrong.

Soldiers have a duty to humanity to refuse to carry out orders they believe to be wrong...Ehren Watada for example , but on the other boot most miliatary enforce the rule that refusal to carry out orders can result in court martial .. catch 22

But if the orders fit with your ideals then you will carry them out willingly .

That isn't quite true. Soldiers have the duty to fulfil orders and by the rules they were obeying (local Positive Law). Quoting wikipedia "Law actually and specifically enacted or adopted by proper authority for the government of an organized jural society.". At that time the law they were obeying said to fulfil those orders otherwise they would face harsh consequences. And that those actions were legal and necessary!

Of course one can argue about Natural Law as it was even applied in Nuremberg Trials to condemn the Nazist Laws. But that isn't the point here.

The point is, a soldier doesn't care about all this, he needs to care about his family safety and his own. And of course, one can not disregard the role of politicians and generals. These are the ones to blame. These are the ones with the inflated rhetorical speech and the menaces to the soldiers' lifes if they don't comply. They indeed are the war criminals.

But of course there are butchers everywhere in the hierarchy, from the foot soldier to the commanders. And that also has to be denounced and judged.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×