WarFare MfCTI style

[Guest]

Heya

Of course Warfare is pretty close to MfCti as is, but ive noticed a number of small differences that have hugely affected the difference. Primarily, I am talking about the bases.

Let me explain -

Wouldnt it be nice to see the awesome bases that were created in MfCti, and have to deal with them thru cqb operations, coordinated tank assaults, and carefully executed air strikes?

Again, the bases are the main issue here - the 'base' of the problem - now, to expand on what roots of the problem

Why does a base hardly ever get fortified, why does it not look nor function really like a base -

Because in most missions, artillery is *On*, and that, in itself is a huge issue - Why ? -

Artillery is uber, simple - get enough invested in it, get a bead on the enemy base, its dead, just need a little time to barrage it alot -

It means the Artillery is the primary issue -

As long as it remains this powerful, no commander in his/her right mind will bother to put assets into defenses, when they do nothing against a storm of arty rounds that will lay out a base in 5 - 10 mins - it means both commanders will simply put assets into everything but defenses, for the most part -

Now moving to the - What if artillery is subdued or not enabled

So now artillery is not so devastating, or disabled

What are we left with -

Walls that the commander builds have 2 serious problems :

1 - hit points are nothing, a tank round blows them to shreds

2 - hit points dont even matter, they are so low standing, they really only provide defense against infantry

Solution -

Very simple

Allow walls to be built that stand high enough to provide defense against tanks, there are plenty of wall type structures available with Arma that provide this - wall type left to the mission modder

Give walls much greater hit points

Make walls affordable, relatively cheap to make on a mass scale

What these few small changes do?

Immersive huge bases encouraged, with walls and likely static mg's, etc - just like in MfCti

Large scale defenses encouraged for bases, including AA armor, tanks, and ground forces, just like in Mfcti

Result -

Prolonged missions, more immersive missions, assaults on an enemy base become coordinated strikes, carefully planned -

commanders are given more abilities to be strategic in their defenses - simply because making good defenses now makes a big difference

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Lastly, and most certainly NOT lastly important -

A few remaining things from MfCti

Incorporate a respawnable camp to be created by players - this is very helpful in many facets, and ideal for 'early' strikes on a base found early in the mission

Let it be the same in design, where each newly created camp is the most updated respawn point for a side.

Respawn locations at various factories -

This is a big one -

This allows being able to respawn at various bases - just like in Mfcti - where initial bases were often created using just a barracks and maybe a light vehicle factory, being able to pick which factory you repawn to makes it possible for players to pick which base they want to goto, amongst potentially multitudes of bases.

Another thing that will help -

North only war -

Reason -

Southern cities are far, far, far too big to effectively defend

Most northern towns and cities are not (excluding bagango)

Make a version that uses only northern towns, expand the current town selection - If done right, there is enough area, and enough towns on the northern island to easily produce an atmosphere almost perfectly similar to MfCti on most Ofp islands, in terms of both town sizes to defend, and area to cover, without going overboard in overall area to deal with and gigantic cities that are half a mile wide -

Just like in MfCti - a town/city should not have to be huge -

A northern only scenario would be perfect imo, with an expanded array of towns.

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These changes, will encourage the mission to become a full scale immersive war that is in Mfcti for ofp - now in Arma

Its not that far away, just a few changes, and it can happen.

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Anyhow, this is the best I can surmise overall to take Warfare and bring it as close as I can imagine to MfCti -

Id love to see this sort of variation come out, and I not only feel I would enjoy it, I think properly done, it would encourage a much more 'immersive' war, much more strategic, more enjoyable, and would not be that difficult to implement in comparison to the result of increased game play quality.

As far as the implement part, im stuck on my own project right now (just started it 2 and a half years ago ) so I cant fathom trying it myself, but I sure would be happy to see a mod of Warfare like this come out

[lockjaw-65- 0]

I can see your points and agree that some things could be more like MfCti but i dont think it should be restricted to north island, one of the things I love is the size of towns etc. We should develop using past experience and not make an exact copy of the old maps. Having said that I agree with most of the points you make about base sizes and artillary etc. I believe the way forward with this is the development of the Ai and their behaviour, as well as some of the points you make. I think that ArmA 2 will be better on this front and that this warfare mode is beta for whats to come.

[Guest]

I can see your points and agree that some things could be more like MfCti but i dont think it should be restricted to north island, one of the things I love is the size of towns etc. We should develop using past experience and not make an exact copy of the old maps. Having said that I agree with most of the points you make about base sizes and artillary etc. I believe the way forward with this is the development of the Ai and their behaviour, as well as some of the points you make. I think that ArmA 2 will be better on this front and that this warfare mode is beta for whats to come.

I agree too that the south cities size are nice, only bad thing is it seems on the smaller missions that come up, like less than 10 people total it takes a really long time to take over some of the southern cities. I agree tho, dont want the same exact map setup every time or it can get old for sure.

I certainly miss the bases from Mfcti, it was cool to come and go from your base and see it all neat and organized, with various defenses, tanks sitting in optimum exterior positions, aa - etc, right now a base is normally just a mess of the factories and a few defensive static pieces, and thats it - In the ten or so games ive played so far I havent seen one base put together that actually operated, looked, and felt like one - because its just a waste of time and money as the system is set up right now. Who would spend eventually 20000 for walls, tanks, aa, troops, when they get blown to smithereens once arty starts coming in. Remember the tank wars that would erupt thru base assualts? lol - Some of the most amazing tank battles ive ever seen were in Mfcti either defending or attacking a base, thered be like 3 or more full tank squads on each side, all you could hear was firing and tracks rumbling, and explosions - that was some awesome stuff.

Imo its not really about realism so much as it is about making the system work so it encourages a more enjoyable and immersive, and tactical experience overall, which is what Mfcti did, even the arty in cti was not that devastating, but it was helpful.

Like you said m8, hopefully thing that are to come

[Guest]

Ill point something simple out here

If players enjoy playing as it is, if arty is on, all you have to do is skimp by on whatever you can, get enough money accumulated, and if ur total 'money' grabbing is better than the enemy, you win, as long as you know where the enemy base is, they die, your arty will blow them to pieces.

If players want to have an immersive experience, where you have to have a good comm, and solid base fortifications, realistic ground and air defenses, where when you find the enemy base you dont just punch the 'artillery I win button' but you end up with potential gigantic ground and air battles at base locations, there are only a FEW changes to make this happen -

Ill rip out from my original thread the few things *required* to make giant battles for bases possible -

Its this hard -

Either disable, or significantly decrease arty damage/destruction, or heck, just make the cost huge to get the current 'uber' arty

Provide a wall structure that has enough height to give defense against tank fire on a relatively flat area

If the new walls do not hold significant hitpoints to greatly surpass what is now, increase them

Decrease cost on those walls, significantly - which means base commanders can build their bases up, nicely, without sacrificing huge amounts of money that could go into vehicles and upgrades.

Thats enough right there, to significantly increase tactics for both defenses of bases, and hugely increase offensive strikes on bases.

I would think anyone who knows a good amount about mp scripting could do this in a day, and a big, huge change would be made.

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Want to easily further this?

Now you can also make a ground war version - significantly decrease cost on tanks = mass ground war

And bases with walls that can survive mass tank battles for bases can fit nicely, just like in mfCti.

This is what I was trying to say, its too easy of a few modifications.

The additional stuff was just extras, but this here is enough to pull it off.

Might I add also, with these changes, base locations also become critical, dependent on sourounding terrain features.

[russin 0]

yes we need a a CTI more like the original it was highly played in OFP i have no clue why there isn't anybody willing to mimic what was working and move forward with that

the supply line thing is cool but the AI are so dam DUMB you get tons of trucks all over the towns stuck.....

we really need a MFCTI RAW convertion into arma hell id even settle for a NO JIP and go old school fill up and GO

you BRING MFCTI back the server will explode the servers will be plagued with MFCTI

thats my view Warfare is nice and all but just doesn't cut it....

PLEASE GIVE US a REAL MFCTI

[Guest]

we really need a MFCTI RAW convertion into arma hell id even settle for a NO JIP and go old school fill up and GO

Id second that

Id take an mfcti version without Jip any day here, heck sitting around waiting on a mission to fill up was even fun, the anticipation was almost enough in itself.

Heck I think it would be nice to see a regularly used non jip version in Arma anyhow, jip can really mess up a large scale mission when its not coop.

[lockjaw-65- 0]

yes we need a a CTI more like the original it was highly played in OFP i have no clue why there isn't anybody willing to mimic what was working and move forward with that

the supply line thing is cool but the AI are so dam DUMB you get tons of trucks all over the towns stuck.....  

we really need a MFCTI RAW convertion into arma hell id even settle for a NO JIP and go old school fill up and GO  

you BRING MFCTI back the server will explode the servers will be plagued with MFCTI

thats my view Warfare is nice and all but just doesn't cut it....

PLEASE GIVE US a REAL MFCTI  

I see all your points and special eds. I would give it a try if it was there. would be nice to see what it would play like. I am open to all aspects of this and thats how things develop and move forward

[Auss 208]

You fellas dont seem to relise we've had a CTI with working JIP for many months now. crCTI OGN

[liljb15 0]

Even though I do have ofp I got it around the same time Arma came out so the online community was rapidly dieing. So can someone make a list of the features that MfCTI and CrCTI in ofp had thats somehow so much better than warfare?

[Guest]

You fellas dont seem to relise we've had a CTI with working JIP for many months now. crCTI OGN

Sounds good - unfortunately I have always been stuck on original Mfcti, I know alot of people in Ofp had switched to CrCti, I never got attached to it myself, everyone has their preferences tho.

Ive heard there are MfCti versions in Arma but they are still very buggy, only thing I can surmise is if a version of MfCti, or itself comes out that is fully working properly, I would think it would smash the boards on the Mp server list -

Only time will tell i guess

[russin 0]

You fellas dont seem to relise we've had a CTI with working JIP for many months now. crCTI OGN

CRCTI doesn't CUT IT

we want and are asking for MFCTI

[russin 0]

Even though I do have ofp I got it around the same time Arma came out so the online community was rapidly dieing. So can someone make a list of the features that MfCTI and CrCTI in ofp had thats somehow so much better than warfare?

its something you gotta play to understand why it is better

im so surprized that none have made MFCTI for ArmA seeing how it dominated OFP for so long

Warfare is ok but the game style is crap as far as im concerned

the airport thing is crap making that a central area once the $ flow starts rolling.......

CRCTI was okee but definatly NOT a MFCTI

ArmA has lost many players with no real CTI to and when i say real i mean MFCTI haha

my entire squad doesn't play ArmA very much because of this and im sure where not the only Squad out there that has been MIA as far as ArmA go's

but for me i play regularly @

IC-ArmA so that is holding me over and if they where not there id not be playing arma hardly at all

these are just my views ArmA is a great game but with no MFCTI with ArmA its failing in my book

[russin 0]

come to think of it we had a Raw MFCTI sorta working Binkster and some others worked on it but it is not playable neat though to go in and screw around i think the buildings wouldn't destroy....

and everything still needed converted to sqf haha so basically need someone that knows his stuff before see anything half decent to play on

if you want a copy of it visit www.wglcti.com its in the downloads section

sure would be a christmas if i got my hands on a real MFCTI

[ShrubMiK 0]

Surely you should be able to explain quickly what the key differences in MFCTI are? I'd be interested to know.

[russin 0]

Surely you should be able to explain quickly what the key differences in MFCTI are? I'd be interested to know.

ok

-there is no lame spawns inside towns like in warfare (in MF they use a Repair truck to plant a spawn point and build ammo from there)

-both sides once upgraded can build any air unit on there side

-in MFCtI you must destroy all buildings and MHQ to win

-you get to upgrade buildings warfare once it's built you have access to all units in MFCTI when building is first planted you only get a few units to choose from untill the buildings are upgraded...

those are a few of the big differences that i can think of

[dotted 0]

Simply put, MFCTI cannot be done until CWR is done.

[russin 0]

Simply put, MFCTI cannot be done until CWR is done.

what is that and why ?

[liljb15 0]

Simply put, MFCTI cannot be done until CWR is done.

what is that and why ?

CWR is cold war rearmed (i think). CWR is a remake of the original OFP for Arma but I don't exactly know why MFCTI would require CWR.

[SWAT_BigBear 0]

Cooperatively,

Defend the Base is our favorite MFCTI.

It is nice in the way Binkster's version and enemy helo's come after you.

[Matte_PL 0]

MFCTI on "DTB Insane" would be great ; )

[dotted 0]

Simply put, MFCTI cannot be done until CWR is done.

what is that and why ?

CWR is cold war rearmed (i think). CWR is a remake of the original OFP for Arma but I don't exactly know why MFCTI would require CWR.

How do you suppose you can get MFCTI without a T-80, or M60, or a HIND just to name a few?

I really dont think you can get MFCTI with the current vehicles, wepons etc. Thats why i think CWR is needed before we can get MFCTI back.

[Guest]

Simply put, MFCTI cannot be done until CWR is done.

what is that and why ?

CWR is cold war rearmed (i think). CWR is a remake of the original OFP for Arma but I don't exactly know why MFCTI would require CWR.

How do you suppose you can get MFCTI without a T-80, or M60, or a HIND just to name a few?

I really dont think you can get MFCTI with the current vehicles, wepons etc. Thats why i think CWR is needed before we can get MFCTI back.

I would assume both the CrCti version and the apparently buggy but functional versions of Mfcti out there simply compensate and use what is available.

I dont think the limitation of vehicles is the issue, there's enough for both sides to make it work, I think, personally, there are two problems :

1 - too much effort to put Jip in, when in all truth, Jip can really wreck a good game that was long time in play (reasons are easy enough to imagine, Jip = good for coop, potentially disastrous for 2 sided mission)

2 - major map modifications, and script changes to accommodate Arma standards, also, a big problem, new ai issues

Ai issues are not the only problem in Arma, a huge issue is complexity of town structures, there is alot for group units to get stuck on, although it may end up just being a given, what else can be done?

Also, new names, for like everything that is an 'object' type

Apart from all of this, Im sure there is more, I dont know, I am good at Sp scripting, not Mp, so Im prolly falling way short of describing major issues, but these are the ones that come to mind when I think of potential issues.

Still...

We dont have a MfCti version that is worthy to be called such, if we did, I think there would be a game going on every night, but there isnt

And..

We do have Warfare -

These are the few changes ive seen that can make Warfare become as close as Cti as I could imagine, and either way, imo, would increase overall effect in many aspects dramatically.

Wether or not anything like this ever transpires in a Warfare version, who knows..

I wanted to put down what I saw clearly from playing a number of times, coming from a fellow coder that knows what can and cannot be done *relatively* easily, and these few changes seemed to come across as easy to pull off.

[volkov956 0]

Me and some friends still play Arma MFCTI BBQ's Conversion we just tinkered with it for a while now.

but since last patch for some odd reason the first building built AKA by an AI Commander Control Centre floats in the air...... but only since the 1.12 patch and 1.14. We still tinker with it. but still JIP does not work and we only play it on a closed Lan Server to prevent JIP problems

I just kinda wonder what happened to Mike Melvins Version 2.0 that was supposedly being made that was gonna appear then he vanished....

[Axek/Axyl 2]

I just kinda wonder what happened to Mike Melvins Version 2.0 that was supposedly being made that was gonna appear then he vanished....

Mike is one of the guys who wrote Warfare. (Check out the credits.)

[Guest]

come to think of it we had a Raw MFCTI sorta working Binkster and some others worked on it but it is not playable neat though to go in and screw around i think the buildings wouldn't destroy....

and everything still needed converted to sqf haha so basically need someone that knows his stuff before see anything half decent to play on

if you want a copy of it visit www.wglcti.com its in the downloads section

sure would be a christmas if i got my hands on a real MFCTI

I had missed this one, sorry

Why would everything need to be changed to .sqf?

Arma supports .Sqs same as Ofp, only changes are a few command line format differences, which affect both .sqf and .sqs .

I dont understand why change all that to .sqf? The scripted scpu load was fine in Ofp, it would only be more manageable in Arma due to upgraded comps.