The Unsung Vietnam war MOD

[bigstone 48]

What kind of rifles will the USMC grunts have?  Its kind of hard to see in the pics whether they are armed with the M16 or M14?

[PolishGI 0]

What king of rifles will the USMC grunts have?  Its kind of hard to see in the pics whether they are armed with the M16 or M14?

hehe

Both mate!  Of course this depends on what year of the war you are recreating, right?  

[bigstone 48]

Yeah now thats the kind of immersion I like. Operation Starlight 1965 M-14's and Battle of Hue M-16's. You know the US Army's 1st Air Cav had the M-16's in 1965, while the USMC still had the M-14. I guess since the M-14 has a larger 7.62 round that packs more of a punch compared to the M-16's 5.56 round. Well looking forward to this cool mod.

[PolishGI 0]

Yeah now thats the kind of immersion I like.  Operation Starlight 1965 M-14's and Battle of Hue M-16's.  You know the US Army's 1st Air Cav had the M-16's in 1965, while the USMC still had the M-14.  I guess since the M-14 has a larger 7.62 round that packs more of a punch compared to the M-16's 5.56 round.  Well looking forward to this cool mod.

Yeah, it all depends on when each service branch engaged into contract talks for which specific weapons.

That is the million dollar question...  M14 vs M16...   M16 vs AK47...  strengths and weaknesses...  different answers for different people...

It's coming, we hope everyone enjoys it as much as we have enjoyed putting it together...

[The-Architect 0]

You guys doing a starlight scope?

[PolishGI 0]

You guys doing a starlight scope?

Think night vision monocular...

[Binkowski 26]

Love it. Can't wait

[RUKH 0]

I keep checking this forum way to much for updates on The Unsung....my girlfrind might think I have an affair.

...and "soon" she might just be proven right....when I start shouting "10$ beaucoup!! 5$ each.." in my sleep.

[Warrior Xâ„¢ 0]

....when I start shouting "10$ beaucoup!! 5$ each.." in my sleep.

LMFAO!!!  

Nice screenies. What's the frame rate like?

Well i personally have a frame rate of around 14-22, it's kinda

moving up and down. But we are improving still on the frame rate, trying to get it up more and more. We are highly aware that many do not have high tech PC's to play with so we are trying to do everything we can to increase the framerate. Just for info i have a Quad core (Q6600) 2.4 GHZ, 3 gig of ram and a lowsy standard GeForce 8600 GS. The video shown in a above post was shot with my PC. Hope that gives ya a answer m8  

Does the viewblock work well for AI in this thick vegetation?

The view block is working to some extent. Currently it's working in the way that your behaviour out in the jungle is the reason for you to get spotted quick or slow. As the AI can still hear you out there. So if you go around in crouched pos but are breathing heavily, they will "hear" you approach and will spot you. If you go in slowly without much breathing they will not hear you that quick and you can get closer. If you walk up and tall, the AI will spot you quick enough. If you shoot nearby them they will spot you fast as hell and your only survival will be chucking your stupid body behind a tree and hope you have enough cover to shoot from. Basically, the current jungle environment and AI behaviour asks of the player to move around in silence and not show himself to much. You will have a fighting chance then. Walk tall and proud and act like Rambo...well you'll be sure to get the next ride out of the boonies in a bodybag. Also this we are still advancing on to see how far we can push the ArmA engine and fix the AI vision, so we can balance out the chances of the player against the AI. We want the player to have a chance out there and not get pissed for fighting enemy he can't see (although pretty accurate to the real thing).

Anyone any more questions, please go ahead and ask. We will try to answer as well as we can.  

[The-Architect 0]

I noticed the thick, dense jungle. Are there enough allys and clearings with routes in and out to create firing lanes, set up ambushes and the like. Also, do you have clearings with tree stumps to simulate past LZs cut into the jungle?

I understand that you want a totally dense environment but clearings, allys, gullies etc would be a good addition.

Another question regards the bases.

Have you created full bases or just left big dirt textured clearings for us to build our own? I'd prefer the latter.

Also, if you have created your own bases, Have you left enough flat ground between the wire and the treeline? Many modders have jungle/trees/bushes right up to the wire. Obviously nowhere near realistic.

[Col. Faulkner 0]

You guys doing a starlight scope?

Think night vision monocular...

So does that mean "no", then?  A Starlight 'scope would be

like a night viz telescope (either hand-held or weapon

mounted), not a thing you have up to your eye all the time.

That makes it very different in use. ArmA doesn't really

support that kind of thing though, unfortunately (unless

you've found some wizzardly way of implementing it).

I once had the British clone of the Starlight 'scope mounted

to the ArmaLite ("M16A1") in the jungle in Belize; useless...

bloody useless. Like looking through a telescope at the

bottom of the sea and the sight and mount were actually

heavier than the rifle was!

[Col. Faulkner 0]

...We want the player to have a chance out there and not get pissed for fighting enemy he can't see (although pretty accurate to the real thing).

Awww...we wanna see just muzzle flashes and blood trails!

[PolishGI 0]

You guys doing a starlight scope?

Think night vision monocular...

So does that mean "no", then?  A Starlight 'scope would be

like a night viz telescope (either hand-held or weapon

mounted), not a thing you have up to your eye all the time.

That makes it very different in use. ArmA doesn't really

support that kind of thing though, unfortunately (unless

you've found some wizzardly way of implementing it).

I once had the British clone of the Starlight 'scope mounted

to the ArmaLite ("M16A1") in the jungle in Belize; useless...

bloody useless. Like looking through a telescope at the

bottom of the sea and the sight and mount were actually

heavier than the rifle was!

Well, the scope/monocular was rare at best but when provided to western forces, those pulling a security stretch at night for an NDP would get it to look for enemy patrols approaching.

So we are playing with the idea of getting it in game for either the SF boys or for perhaps the US Army guys.  We are anxious to have patrols in the bush that lead into the evening and night hours watching for the enemy...  Nothing like sitting in a dark and wet jungle looking into the abyss (much like you have described) with either rain coming down or a perfect sky...  The enemy could come within 10 meters of you and you would never know it...  Only the audio sense to tell you what, how many and where...

[Col. Faulkner 0]

So we are playing with the idea of getting it in game

Are you implementing it as a hand-held telescope?

Nothing like sitting in a dark and wet jungle looking into the abyss (much like you have described)

with either rain...

You're pretty much always wet in the jungle. Whether it's

sweat, mist, rain or river water (or all of them at once).

It's tough enough just living and moving about in it, never

mind trying to fight too.

[PolishGI 0]

So we are playing with the idea of getting it in game

Are you implementing it as a hand-held telescope?

Nothing like sitting in a dark and wet jungle looking into the abyss (much like you have described)

with either rain...

You're pretty much always wet in the jungle. Whether it's

sweat, mist, rain or river water (or all of them at once).

It's tough enough just living and moving about in it, never

mind trying to fight too.

Perhaps I have said too much about the hand held monocular...

You are so right!  Living/moving in the jungle and battling the insects and/or weather was difficult enough let alone fighting someone who wants to kill you and believes in what they are doing...

[Col. Faulkner 0]

Perhaps I have said too much about the hand held monocular...

hand-held!? Yipeee!

[The-Architect 0]

Having a hand held NVG device is a cop out.

Also, NODs was not rare at all. Here is a bit of research I did for a different Nam group.

Here's the info on Night Vision or NOD (Night Observation Device) in SEA.

By the mid-1960's, scientists and engineers at Night Vision fielded the first generation of passive night vision devices for U.S. troops, including a Small Starlight Scope that served as a rifle-mounted sight or as a handheld viewer. Realizing these systems were far from perfected, Night Vision research personnel came to refer to the development of this early equipment as the First Generation Image Intensifier Program. Scientists and engineers would go on to improve upon this technology to deliver a second and third generation of night vision equipment.

http://www.simhq.com/_air6/images/air_232a_015.jpg

The first generation Small Starlight Scope was soon put to practical use in the field. With the United States' growing involvement in Vietnam, U.S. soldiers quickly recognized that they faced an enemy that relied on the cover of darkness to conduct its maneuvers and offensive operations. In 1964, the U.S. Army issued night vision equipment to the troops in Vietnam. The Vietnam War proved to be an important stage in the development of night vision systems.

There were no "goggles" like today and instead Gen I scopes were mounted on rifles as in the following images.

http://ugca.org/07jan/nightpvs2.jpg

AN/PVS-2 Night Vision Sight “Starlight Scope†(1st Generation) used on M14 Rifle (circa 1967-75)

Type:  Passive “starlight†scope intensifying ambient light

Weight: 6 pounds complete with battery

Effective range: same as with conventional sights

This is a bigger picture of a soldier in country showing the scale of a Gen I scope. The Gen I scopes were in wide usage by 1969.

http://bp1.blogger.com/_IQgkr1....0+j.jpg

In late 1969 the US started the Nighthawk project which utilised some estimated 14 the UH-1H huey force to conduct night missions armed with a Starlight scope, a large Xenon searchlight and a mounted minigun. Some models also had a mounted .50 poking out the door.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/uh1h-001.jpg

The empty slot for the NOD can be seen above the Xenon searchlight.

http://www.vhpamuseum.org/weapons/images/nighthawk.JPG

The NOD is clearly visible here. Note that the minigun is mounted away from the door gunner position.

A better picture of the whole Nighthawk system can be seen on this Firefly squardron bird.

http://www.vhpamuseum.org/aircraft/images/firefly.jpg

http://www.atroop412cav.com/tools/images/starlight_large.jpg

A better indidcation of the scale of the NOD. This one seems to be mounted on a watchtower.

The following are pictures of the large mounted NOD optics. Sorry but I couldn't find any of the rifle mounted optics.

http://www.vhpamuseum.org/aircraft/images/mohawk.jpg

http://www.vhpamuseum.org/Places/images/marble.jpg

Listening to a Marine Sniper who served in Vietnam it becomes evident that NODs were very common amongst US forces.

[Col. Faulkner 0]

Having a hand held NVG device is a cop out...

No it's not. It's a useful addition to the capabilities of the

engine. It was very common to use the Starlight scope

dismounted, as a hand held night viz telescope. I know for a

fact that the Americans and Australians did it in Vietnam

(more than one of my jungle warfare instructors were ANZAC

Vietnam vets) as we (British) did in the Far East (I once had

to train Gurkhas in Hong Kong in the use of the device for this

very purpose) and (especially in) Northern Ireland.

In any case, I'm assuming (hoping? ) that if the mod team

has cracked the problem of a hand held night viz device with

the ArmA engine then a weapon mounted one will be similar in

its implementation (I really hope they will give us a weapon

mounted night viz device).

[Warrior Xâ„¢ 0]

I noticed the thick, dense jungle. Are there enough allys and clearings with routes in and out to create firing lanes, set up ambushes and the like.

Yes there are. There's patches of empty jungle here and there, lower grass, more open area's etc. So plenty of ambush country around and places to set up firing zones.

Also, do you have clearings with tree stumps to simulate past LZs cut into the jungle?

I understand that you want a totally dense environment but clearings, allys, gullies etc would be a good addition.

We have enough LZ's around the place, differing from huge to small. Some of them are even fully cleared and have no growth what so ever. Others have lower growth up to waste height or just to the head. But we currently have no damaged tree models that would have the LZ look like it's been a man created clearing by bombs dropped (daisy cutter) a month or so earlier with still some burn marks all over the place.

Another question regards the bases.

Have you created full bases or just left big dirt textured clearings for us to build our own? I'd prefer the latter.

We have full bases and we also have dirt textured clearings with no growth for peopl eto use as LZ's or as locations for self made bases.

Also, if you have created your own bases, Have you left enough flat ground between the wire and the treeline? Many modders have jungle/trees/bushes right up to the wire. Obviously nowhere near realistic.

And yes we have flat ground from the base wires towards the jungle a fair distance away from the base wires. There may be some small growth around here and there but that's like 1% and consists of maybe 1 or 2 bushes around the entire bases. It's ,ostly just dirt around the bases towards where the jungle starts. Plenty of clear fire ground and no way to hide for Charlie.

[ProPilot 0]

Any updates?

[icebreakr 3157]

ProPilot: anxious to drag some wounded bodies through the thick jungle, are we?

[sim 0]

Update: We are working our arses off!

Currently in the process of creating the mini campaign for the R1 release

[PolishGI 0]

Update: We are working our arses off!

Currently in the process of creating the mini campaign for the R1 release  

CHOP CHOP SIM!

We are ALL waiting!  

[Andre 10]

(...)

Edited January 24, 2011 by Andre

[icebreakr 3157]

Andre: I alone have around 150 MP-coop missions for all other islands, I bet we can start working right after R1 release and do a new coop pack for this island, too