Fix ArmA choppers now!

[Harlock_GBase 0]

Can't agree here. Not that BF2's choppers are great, but you can use the rudders to adjust your alignment to a target, what you can't do in ArmA (or OPF) because the chopper will start banking if you use the rudders, which, as far as i know, is not correct in terms of reality, as the rudder pedals should just spin the helicopter horizontally...

[whisper 0]

Change your settings. When assigning correctly your keys to rudders, you don't have this effect anymore.

[Harlock_GBase 0]

Really?! I fly with a gamepad because i don't own a flightstick and i mapped the rudders to the left and right shoulder buttons. It kind of works, but the chopper only makes really light movements to the left and the right, just inches, even if i hold the buttons pressed. Also it does not work when flying forwarf, only when hovering. I could need a hint as how to change my settings.

[wamingo 1]

Really?! I fly with a gamepad because i don't own a flightstick and i mapped the rudders to the left and right shoulder buttons. It kind of works, but the chopper only makes really light movements to the left and the right, just inches, even if i hold the buttons pressed. Also it does not work when flying forwarf, only when hovering. I could need a hint as how to change my settings.

Unassign Turn Left and Turn Right and put your keys in Left Pedal and Right Pedal instead.

[Harlock_GBase 0]

Silly me...ok that partly did the trick, but still the spin effect is much too weak in my eyes. Can't believe that a Littlebird could not spin more even when in forward motion when the pedals are operated...it still is a pain to align that thing to a moving tank...

[whisper 0]

Silly me...ok that partly did the trick, but still the spin effect is much too weak in my eyes. Can't believe that a Littlebird could not spin more even when in forward motion when the pedals are operated...it still is a pain to align that thing to a moving tank...

Yes, the rudder authority is lost too fast in ArmA FM, and way too abruptely.

That makes for difficult rocket passes, but not impossible. Too often, though, it leads to trying to aim for too long, and crashing 100m past the target

[max power 21]

The loss of rudder authority at speed is realistic but too strong for some helicopters... or so say some helicopter pilots. Others, like leftskidlow, don't mind it, IIRC.

[Mattoso 0]

I'm okay piloting the choppers, it is not the best feeling piloting a game chopper I'd seen, but... it works... Although, something make me very upset with the choppers... If you receive a single shot and even having more than a half of the armor, the chopper just shutdown the engine and fall to the ground.... this really sucks... It should not be something dificult to fix or modify... Anyone feels like me? Is there any kind of addon which can modify that behaviour?

[USSRsniper 0]

ArmA choppers are bad? try flying them in FSX, even ni real lfei helicopters are hard to fly.

[Daniel 0]

Quote[/b] ]the chopper just shutdown the engine and fall to the ground....

Well, you can usually still save it. Although I guess the engine failure should be a bit more random.

[ravenholme 50]

Daniel @ May 28 2008,19:32)]

Quote[/b] ]the chopper just shutdown the engine and fall to the ground....

Well, you can usually still save it. Although I guess the engine failure should be a bit more random.

This man speaks the truth, you can save it, it's just hard to figure out if you have no RL experience with Choppers (I have some, but it's almost none)

[llama_thumper 0]

to clarify - i am in no way advocating a dumbing down of the flight model - that is not the point. my point is that, as it is, i dont think it is correct. the rudder thing is one thing. best way to summarize it would be to say that the controls are arcady.

i'll have to prep some videos of the different chopper flight models, as an example to compare to, say in BF2 and a heli-sim - can't do that at the mo. though.

[llama_thumper 0]

Daniel @ May 28 2008,19:32)]

Quote[/b] ]the chopper just shutdown the engine and fall to the ground....

Well, you can usually still save it. Although I guess the engine failure should be a bit more random.

This man speaks the truth, you can save it, it's just hard to figure out if you have no RL experience with Choppers (I have some, but it's almost none)

haven't tried this - is autorotation modeled?

[whisper 0]

Daniel @ May 28 2008,19:32)]

Quote[/b] ]the chopper just shutdown the engine and fall to the ground....

Well, you can usually still save it. Although I guess the engine failure should be a bit more random.

This man speaks the truth, you can save it, it's just hard to figure out if you have no RL experience with Choppers (I have some, but it's almost none)

haven't tried this - is autorotation modeled?

Yes, sort of. (it was in OFP too).

power to minimum, keep some speed, gain rotor speed, use it for the final flare landing.

You must be pretty fast once the engine shuts down, though. It was easier in OFP, imho.

[max power 21]

to clarify - i am in no way advocating a dumbing down of the flight model - that is not the point. my point is that, as it is, i dont think it is correct. the rudder thing is one thing. best way to summarize it would be to say that the controls are arcady.

i'll have to prep some videos of the different chopper flight models, as an example to compare to, say in BF2 and a heli-sim - can't do that at the mo. though.

It is arcadey because it is not a helicopter sim, but it also is not as arcadey as bf2. Is it the mid-road thing you have a problem with?

I think that if you describe your experience it will be more useful than videos.

[=jps=sgtrock 4]

Dumb question: My control setup is:

q throttle up

z throttle down

Joystick everything else

The problem that I've run into (and it's probably just me) is that I don't have a clue how much throttle I've added or subtracted. Outside of watching my airspeed indicator, altitude, and attitude, how do I keep track of how much throttle I've rolled on?

TIA

[craigery83 0]

if you want to know a real flight sim, get janes longbow 2, you need to be able to run DOS progs though. I still have it and might sell since it doesnt work on my comp

[-Total- 0]

http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/

That's going to be probably the best rotary wing sim ever released.

ArmA, as stated, was a middle of the road on helicopter flight physics. It was the first game of it's type that I played where rudder and throttle control were defintie factors in flying it.

Also, the guages giving the right information was a nice touch too, although I do amit that they are a bit out of focus. Specifically the fuel guage and the air speed guage need to be more in focus.

For the sake of balancing the game, the helicopter flight model is fine where it is. Improvements could be more realistic gyro effects, torque effects, and wind sheer effects. that would start straining the user's systems tho with the actions of the AI as well.

There's a learning curve to the ArmA flight model and that's the way it should be

[subs17 9]

The latest patch is quite good as far as FM is concerned it now works much better than before. As for A-10 etc theres still issues with the AoA etc.

[max power 21]

if you want to know a real flight sim, get janes longbow 2, you need to be able to run DOS progs though. I still have it and might sell since it doesnt work on my comp

If you go on to simhq and look for the 'longbow 2 revisited' article, it will tell you how to get the game working on modern systems.

[Neon Samurai 0]

Well I figured I would add my opinion...

First off I would say that the helicopter flight modeling isn't too bad for a low fidelity ALS (air land sea) battle sim (certainly light years ahead of Battlefield 2). There are some things wrong though as people have pointed out such as loosing the ability to use the tail rotor past 50. It should start to get steadily less responsive though as you pick up speed, other then 8the KA-50 which thanks to its dual main rotors can still whip around pretty fast while going in any direction.

The other thing wrong is that you can flatten out the collective (0 throttle), pull up, and you gain altitude making it impossible to do rapid stops without climbing a hundred feet or more. Strangely though you can do sideways stops with out the altitude gain. 0 throttle/collective should not cause the helo to gain altitude regardless of pitch.

As for the damage they can take (and them blowing up on impact) I agree that they are way too fragile in that regard. The other thing that really drives me nuts is how the engine dies when ever the helo takes the slightest bit of damage. They are actually more fragile then airplanes in the game, you practically look at them and they fall out of the sky.

Most combat helicopters are pretty well armored and can even take multiple 20mm and 30mm rounds (most attack helicopters anyhow). They also have 2 engines in case one fails due to combat damage (or other reasons). They are certainly tougher then any of the jets in the game other then the A-10 (A-10's are notoriously tough in reality). They are also near immune to infantry caliber weapons (5.56, 7.62, etc).

Now obviously I'm mainly talking about how vulnerable the attack helicopters are. Transport helicopters are fairly well armored as well but cant take the punishment that an attack helicopter can. As for the scout helos, well they have virtually no armor, they survive by being quick and nimble and staying out of sight.

Anyhow I strongly suggest the damage system on helicopters should be reworked. The engine realy shouldn't fail until the helicopter is down to around 1/4hp (if the engines don't fail on jets, and jets are on average more fragile, why should they fail on helicopters?). The damage from rough landings also needs fixing too (happens way to easily as it is).

[m0nkm0nk 0]

I feel your pain friend. I was a UH-60 Blackhawk crewchief and mechanic for 7 years in the Army. There is more than just the flight model that make these aircraft a weakness. Survivability was one of the main focus points when they were developing with UH-60. In ArmA if you land hard at all your aircraft either breaks or you completely blow up, it's just ridiculous. The weapons systems are completely wrong compared to real life, the list goes on and on. People have been complaining about these things since the release, I guess they just don't care. I had much more control over my aircraft playing OFP, I also prefer the controls in OFP over ArmA.

Same here! I always need to call a repair truck when i land a little to hard!

[llama_thumper 0]

neon,

<<First off I would say that the helicopter flight modeling isn't too bad for a low fidelity ALS (air land sea) battle sim (certainly light years ahead of Battlefield 2). >>

given all that you have written, what do you think makes the above statement true (re BF2)? i for one, think that the controls are way too arcady, in arma, and concurr with what you said about what should be fixed. but how exactly is in your opinion arma's FM better than the BF2 FM (for choppers), given that the probs you mentioned are not there in BF2? so what makes it better? interested to hear.

[wamingo 1]

but how exactly is in your opinion arma's FM better than the BF2 FM (for choppers)?

BF2's fm is the epitome of arcady.

It doesn't hold altitude. it stops on a dime. it defies gravity. The collective power is way too high. Bf fm lets you do absurd things.

[Neon Samurai 0]

BF2 helicopters fly nothing at all even remotely like a real helicopter does, they fly (physics and feel) more like a harrier jet in that they are balancing on vertical thrust (ironically the harriers when hovering feel more like helicopters in ArmA). This is why BF2 helicopters become more and more unresponsive as you tilt, something you don't find in a real helo. I could go on and on and on (and on) about whats wrong with BF2's helicopters, but this is about ArmA. BF2 helicopters do not even approximate in any sense how a actual helicopter flies (ArmA at least does).

As for ArmA if I really wanted to, I could sit down and write a very long post on almost every little thing wrong with the ArmA flight models for helicopters and aircraft...

Like how ArmA helicopters are overly aerodynamically efficient and take way to long to slow down when flying level. Are rather unresponsive, more so then they should be, particularly the AH/MH 6 helicopters (they feel way to ham fisted). How the KA-50 doesn't fly at all like a tandem rotor helo should. How all the fixed wing aircraft do not generate sufficient lift particularly in turns (helo's also drop far to much when banking). That the jet engines seem to be either on or off or in reverse with no in between (making cruising in one very difficult). Then I could attack the oversimplified controls for the collective, and dive right in to all the smaller problems with the flight modeling.

But all the same its not too bad, aircraft just need to loose the ham fisted feel, handle like they are flying in an earth atmosphere instead of mars, and some other tweaks.