The incremental aiming problem.

[Benny Moore 0]

Also, have any of you who say that you do not experience the problem taken a pair of screenshots to compare and measure the distance in pixels? If you indeed are not experiencing the problem, then the distance should be a single pixel. If there is more distance then that, you are experiencing the problem and just do not realize it. I strongly suspect that this is the case.

[ModeZt 0]

-mouse sensitivity at maximum in ArmA options

That's the bug you are looking for. With maxed sensivity you can't aim. With minimized sensivity you'll have a pixel precision.

[ModeZt 0]

Also, have any of you who say that you do not experience the problem taken a pair of screenshots to compare and measure the distance in pixels?  If you indeed are not experiencing the problem, then the distance should be a single pixel.  If there is more distance then that, you are experiencing the problem and just do not realize it.  I strongly suspect that this is the case.

I made some screenshots. I switched resolution to 1024x768 to be close to your experiment.

Mouse sensivity minimized. Mouse dpi minimized. It was not easy to make them because the aiming point is floating a little ( i like this feature of the game. it's not CS or UT where aiming is as simple as possible )

[Maddmatt 1]

I made some screenshots. I switched resolution to 1024x768 to be close to your experiment.

Mouse sensivity minimized. Mouse dpi minimized. It was not easy to make them because the aiming point is floating a little ( i like this feature of the game. it's not CS or UT where aiming is as simple as possible )

...

That is why you don't experience the problem. Turning up the horizontal mouse sensitivity in the game increases it.

I haven't seen the problem since 1.12, although I haven't tested for it much. The 1.12 patch definitely reduced it though.

I don't really like the mouse acceleration though. I would be happier if the incremental movement could actually be fixed so that it worked just like the vertical movement.

[suma 8]

Quote[/b] ]I don't really like the mouse acceleration though. I would be happier if the incremental movement could actually be fixed so that it worked just like the vertical movement.

The diference between horizontal and vertical is with horizontal you are making much larger movements. The issue cannot be seen with vertical only because the vertical sensitivity is always lowered significantly (same movement in vertical directions moves weapon much less).

"Solving" this without acceleration would simply mean lowering the mouse sensitivity, which is you can do if you prefer. We are not dropping any mouse input, the input is however not detailed enough to notice very small mouse movement. Mouse acceleration is a nice way how to allow you to make small movements and at the same time not force you to move the mouse a lot when you need to aim/rotate fast.

One thing to be aware of is that with weapon handling there is no natural "pixel" limit - the description in this topic is concentrating on pixels, however there are no "pixels" when aiming a weapon, only angles. We want the weapon handling to be independent on the resolution you are running the game in, therefore with higher resolution the same mouse movement results in the same angle, but more "pixels".

If you want to aim more accurately, you can always zoom, and the angular precision will improve accordingly,meaning the "pixel step" stays the same, but a pixel when zoomed corresponds to a smaller angle.

[ModeZt 0]

Thx for detailed response Suma.

But in my understanding of acceleretion slow mouse moves should result in small angle changes and fast mouse moves should result in huge angle changes. So the player may move the mouse slow and accurate to aim or fast to turn.

The mouse sensivity option has a strange effect in ArmA: when it's high the small mouse move gives the big angle increment.

That's what ppl are talking about.

As i posted before i'm absolutly satisfied with the aiming precision. I minimised the mouse precision and increase the mouse dpi when needed.

[Sosna 0]

The diference between horizontal and vertical is with horizontal you are making much larger movements. The issue cannot be seen with vertical only because the vertical sensitivity is always lowered significantly (same movement in vertical directions moves weapon much less).

I'm curious Suma, what is the relation between x and y sensitivity? From my testing x seems to be at least 2 or 3 times as fast as y.

Say I wanted equal sensitivity for both x and y, what value would I use for y if x=1.0?

I see now that x is simply much much faster than y. I was unable to get a y increment from within ArmA's options - that' why I thought there was some other difference. I had to modify my .ArmAProfile file in order to set the y value high enough to notice the increment.

Anyways, thanks for your work on the latest patch. The improved mouse movement has made ArmA much more playable for me.

[suma 8]

Quote[/b] ]I'm curious Suma, what is the relation between x and y sensitivity? From my testing x seems to be at least 2 or 3 times as fast as y.

The factor is 2x.

[Maddmatt 1]

Quote[/b] ]I don't really like the mouse acceleration though. I would be happier if the incremental movement could actually be fixed so that it worked just like the vertical movement.

The diference between horizontal and vertical is with horizontal you are making much larger movements. The issue cannot be seen with vertical only because the vertical sensitivity is always lowered significantly (same movement in vertical directions moves weapon much less).

...

Thanks for the detailed answer. At least now some can understand what the problem really is.

What about, instead of using mouse acceleration, the sensitivity is adjusted based on FOV a bit more than it currently is? So when zoomed in it will be easier to make smaller movements.

The mouse acceleration does make aiming a little harder for me in some cases. I guess I can get used to it though. It's still better than having that 'incremental' movement.

Quote[/b] ]

The factor is 2x.

Seems kinda odd to me to do that. But anyway, I already have the sensitivity for horizontal movement slider set to 'double' vertical movement so that they are even in-game.

By the way, having the 'hold breath' button decrease sensitivity would also be useful for making some accurate shots

[maddogx 13]

By the way, having the 'hold breath' button decrease sensitivity would also be useful for making some accurate shots

That's the best idea I've heard so far.

[Henk 0]

By the way, having the 'hold breath' button decrease sensitivity would also be useful for making some accurate shots

That's the best idea I've heard so far.

I support this message.

[Benny Moore 0]

If you want to aim more accurately, you can always zoom, and the angular precision will improve accordingly,meaning the "pixel step" stays the same, but a pixel when zoomed corresponds to a smaller angle.

Did you check out the four screenshots I posted? Even zoomed in fully with the M-16, there are two-pixel increments (at 1024 by 768) where you cannot aim with maximum mouse sensitivity. I don't know how many degrees it is.

Is there a mouse acceleration option in Armed Assault? I generally use acceleration when it is available, but in Armed Assault the only mouse option I know of is mouse sensitivity. I require sensitivity itself to be at maximum because of hand surgury; at low sensitivies, the increased mouse movement required causes hand pain.

[BraTTy 0]

I want to say that I said earlier I have my mouse sensitivity maxed...thats mouse settings in windows control panel along with the enhanced pointer presicion box checked.

I have not touched mouse settings within Arma

I had a wireless optical mouse with my laptop, that was super sensitive. I had to turn sensitivity down within windows and it was still sensitive, took some getting used to.

I recall that was when I did notice some incremental movement also being version 1.08 Arma at the time.

So hardware probably does matter with this problem.

I do not have the incremental problem with Arma now

[suma 8]

Quote[/b] ]The factor is 2x.

Seems kinda odd to me to do that. But anyway, I already have the sensitivity for horizontal movement slider set to 'double' vertical movement so that they are even in-game.

Well, if you have the sensitivity for horizontal movement slider set to 'double' vertical movement, you are not even - your factor is now 4x, which I guess confirms this behavior is good in principle.

[Maddmatt 1]

Quote[/b] ]The factor is 2x.

Seems kinda odd to me to do that. But anyway, I already have the sensitivity for horizontal movement slider set to 'double' vertical movement so that they are even in-game.

Well, if you have the sensitivity for horizontal movement slider set to 'double' vertical movement, you are not even - your factor is now 4x, which I guess confirms this behavior is good in principle.

Just went back in-game to test. Seems I got mixed up when I posted that, I actually have vertical movement set to double horizontal movement. So they are even in-game.

If I really had it the other way around I would have a pretty hard time aiming

Well I gotta admit, I'm getting used to the mouse acceleration. I notice now though that when move my aim up or down fast, the gun seems to move past where the cross-hair is pointing, and then quickly jumps back. As if it can't decelerate fast enough. Not a major issue, just seems a bit weird.

@Benny Moore: I can't say for sure, but maybe getting a mouse with higher DPI would help. Like a Logitech G5 (It has a button to change DPI sensitivity). Then you can get accurate movement with high sensitivity.

I don't like recommending Logitech stuff due to bad experiences, but in this case it might be good.

Mouse acceleration is in ArmA v1.12, there is no setting for it though so it's always on.

Maybe just lowering only x-axis sensitivity will help? Try setting it halfway while leaving y-axis at max. So then both x and y movements will be at the same speed.