Prince Harry IS in Afganistan

[Daniel 0]

I don't think theyre surprised either. In fact they've done very well to keep it covered for 10 weeks. I bet they're pretty angry though.

[Sheps 0]

Plus this war is a joke, I'm all for supporting your men out there, but he was selfish and idiotic in his decision to go out there, as hes putting our men in danger fighting in a war thats unjustifiable

Either way, when we leave the Middle East, it will be all for no reason

He's an officer in The British Army, doing the job he chose to. Selfish and idiotic? I don't think so.

And tell the families and oppos of the lads and lasses that have died it was all for no reason, please.

As for the 7/7 bombers, they obviously had a closer affiliation with a couple of countries other than Britain, or they'd have no reason to carry out a "reprisal", as you put it.

Looks like CNN leaked it from what i've seen.

Anyway, can you tell me our soldiers are there? A lot of the civilians don't want us there, what? We're saving the future of people who live in huts made of hardened mud, who's way of lives has been like that for centuries.

Would you like it if the Taliban came over here and dropped bombs all over our houses and set up camps in our towns, telling us the way our government is treating us in unfair and wrong, and they were here to bring Sharia law to our country?

At the end of the day, every man is responsible for his own life, every soldier in the British Armed forces, chose to join the army, every British soldier also has the right to deny active service, they chose to go.

My childhood mate is in Afghanistan at the moment, he chose to go so thats his responsibility, i told him if he dies he would have died for nothing, he didn't care why they were there or what they were doing, i mean how could he, no one knows why we are there anymore.

The 7/7 bombers only affiliation other then Britain was to Islam, its no different than if a large amount of Catholics moved to Yemen, and Yemen bombed the Vatican, the Catholics would take offense.

[baddo 0]

- Prince Harry goes to Afghanistan as a soldier.

- Media reported that Prince Harry is in Afghanistan.

- The British Ministry of Defense announces that Prince Harry will be withdrawn from Afghanistan.

So?  

I don't get why there should be a fuss about any of the above mentioned three points.

[-Snafu- 77]

My childhood mate is in Afghanistan at the moment, he chose to go so thats his responsibility, i told him if he dies he would have died for nothing, he didn't care why they were there or what they were doing, i mean how could he, no one knows why we are there anymore.

How nice of you. Must have a been a real morale boost for him. Where were you when they were handing out common sense?

Anyway, hats off to Prince Harry for wanting to go and going.

[six6six 0]

Plus this war is a joke, I'm all for supporting your men out there, but he was selfish and idiotic in his decision to go out there, as hes putting our men in danger fighting in a war thats unjustifiable

Either way, when we leave the Middle East, it will be all for no reason

He's an officer in The British Army, doing the job he chose to. Selfish and idiotic? I don't think so.

And tell the families and oppos of the lads and lasses that have died it was all for no reason, please.

As for the 7/7 bombers, they obviously had a closer affiliation with a couple of countries other than Britain, or they'd have no reason to carry out a "reprisal", as you put it.

Looks like CNN leaked it from what i've seen.

Anyway, can you tell me our soldiers are there? A lot of the civilians don't want us there, what? We're saving the future of people who live in huts made of hardened mud, who's way of lives has been like that for centuries.

Would you like it if the Taliban came over here and dropped bombs all over our houses and set up camps in our towns, telling us the way our government is treating us in unfair and wrong, and they were here to bring Sharia law to our country?

At the end of the day, every man is responsible for his own life, every soldier in the British Armed forces, chose to join the army, every British soldier also has the right to deny active service, they chose to go.

My childhood mate is in Afghanistan at the moment, he chose to go so thats his responsibility, i told him if he dies he would have died for nothing, he didn't care why they were there or what they were doing, i mean how could he, no one knows why we are there anymore.

The 7/7 bombers only affiliation other then Britain was to Islam, its no different than if a large amount of Catholics moved to Yemen, and Yemen bombed the Vatican, the Catholics would take offense.

Im sorry to say this, but you, sir, are a moron. What do you think those taliban would be doing if they werent fighting our troops in their country?

And the majority of taliban soldiers are from Pakistan. Most civilians in Helmand prefer our soldiers to the taliban, because we dont make them fight. We dont force them to give us food. We help them rebuild their houses and their lives.

So what if they live in houses made of mud? Just cause their lives have been like that for centuries, it doesnt mean they like it.

[BlackScorpion 0]

Reading from BBC, seems that his presence was first mentioned in Australia already last month, after which an US publication published a story, too, and the deal ("You don't report it and we let you gather a story for later time") was broken.

As for HRH Harry himself, he seemed to have served as a FAC. They deployed him with a Gurkha regiment, so I'd say he was quite safe anyways.

Hats off to him and the rest of the Royal Family who have served. Great to see the people working to get their respect and title as an officer, a soldier, and as mentioned to see them get a first-hand experience on the life of the "cannon fodder".

As for Taliban and Mujahideen... the latter have existed since, well, the dawn of Islam atleast; they are Muslims struggling, or fighting, against any "foe" present, be it a human, country or just something else you can struggle against for your religion.

[Sheps 0]

Plus this war is a joke, I'm all for supporting your men out there, but he was selfish and idiotic in his decision to go out there, as hes putting our men in danger fighting in a war thats unjustifiable

Either way, when we leave the Middle East, it will be all for no reason

He's an officer in The British Army, doing the job he chose to. Selfish and idiotic? I don't think so.

And tell the families and oppos of the lads and lasses that have died it was all for no reason, please.

As for the 7/7 bombers, they obviously had a closer affiliation with a couple of countries other than Britain, or they'd have no reason to carry out a "reprisal", as you put it.

Looks like CNN leaked it from what i've seen.

Anyway, can you tell me our soldiers are there? A lot of the civilians don't want us there, what? We're saving the future of people who live in huts made of hardened mud, who's way of lives has been like that for centuries.

Would you like it if the Taliban came over here and dropped bombs all over our houses and set up camps in our towns, telling us the way our government is treating us in unfair and wrong, and they were here to bring Sharia law to our country?

At the end of the day, every man is responsible for his own life, every soldier in the British Armed forces, chose to join the army, every British soldier also has the right to deny active service, they chose to go.

My childhood mate is in Afghanistan at the moment, he chose to go so thats his responsibility, i told him if he dies he would have died for nothing, he didn't care why they were there or what they were doing, i mean how could he, no one knows why we are there anymore.

The 7/7 bombers only affiliation other then Britain was to Islam, its no different than if a large amount of Catholics moved to Yemen, and Yemen bombed the Vatican, the Catholics would take offense.

Im sorry to say this, but you, sir, are a moron. What do you think those taliban would be doing if they werent fighting our troops in their country?

And the majority of taliban soldiers are from Pakistan. Most civilians in Helmand prefer our soldiers to the taliban, because we dont make them fight. We dont force them to give us food. We help them rebuild their houses and their lives.

So what if they live in houses made of mud? Just cause their lives have been like that for centuries, it doesnt mean they like it.

Lmfao, i love how you can call me moron, and you go on to say "they may have lived that way for centuries, but that doesn't mean they like it"

Seriously lmfao, that holier then thou crap is just stupid, so you think its up to us to force change onto these people? Man thats dumb, so you think that for thousands of years they have lived this way, and hmmm they hated it so much they never bothered rise up?

Thats some of the biggest crap i heard, your telling me that every Afghan hates their life and ruling body? If that were the case they would simply travel across the border, these people don't want western soldiers bombing their country and telling them they are giving them freedom.

What you expect them to be happy? For centuries these people have their own way, and we burst in the door and force "freedom" down their throats?

Get real, the middle east will always be the same, and rival Islamic groups will always be fighting for power, and please, get off my dick because I'm not up the arse of the army and actually have the will to generate my own thoughts and opinions rather then turn sheep.

[six6six 0]

Lmfao, i love how you can call me moron, and you go on to say "they may have lived that way for centuries, but that doesn't mean they like it"

Seriously lmfao, that holier then thou crap is just stupid, so you think its up to us to force change onto these people? Man thats dumb, so you think that for thousands of years they have lived this way, and hmmm they hated it so much they never bothered rise up?

Thats some of the biggest crap i heard, your telling me that every Afghan hates their life and ruling body? If that were the case they would simply travel across the border, these people don't want western soldiers bombing their country and telling them they are giving them freedom.

What you expect them to be happy? For centuries these people have their own way, and we burst in the door and force "freedom" down their throats?

Get real, the middle east will always be the same, and rival Islamic groups will always be fighting for power, and please, get off my dick because I'm not up the arse of the army and actually have the will to generate my own thoughts and opinions rather then turn sheep.

You can love it all you want, it doesnt change the fact that it is true.

Before you start claiming stuff, do research on it. All you need to do is watch the fucking TV and it'll tell you all you need to know to see that you are horribly wrong.

And whats with this whole force change onto them?

90% of Afghans hate the Taliban. All the Taliban do to do with them is use their land to fight, and use the afghans to belnd in and support themselves. Most Taliban come accross the border from Pakistan.

Get real, do some research before you post or form your opinions. Just because you cant see something, it doesnt mean its not there. And considering what you said to your "friend", I dont even want to debate with you anymore.

[Pathy 0]

I'd ride twenty quid that his "childhood mate" muttered something along the lines of "Dick" as he walked away.

[Necromancer- 0]

Well a bigger problem is the "tribal" mentality of the Afghans..

The average Mujahideen desire to be in power of a whole region. You can't put them all in prison, as you need them for support against the Taliban. But in the long term, it will be a pain in the arse.

As for Harry.. I have the utter respect for that. A royalty fighting a long the men on the front line. You don't see a presidents son/daughter of the USA doing that. (but if he did, they would probably have to get secret service on a much bigger budget of which isn't really small at the moment)

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

Something I found interesting when watching some footage is that he was wearing a ballcap favored by US special forces, and knowing that 3rd Group's major AO is A-Stan, I also noticed that he had a patch of what looked like the 3rd Group crest velcroed to the back of his vest when they showed the footage of him getting off the plane.

Was he attached, or otherwise alongside US special forces? My knowledge of Brit military is limited, what are Ghurkas?

[-Snafu- 77]

Something I found interesting when watching some footage is that he was wearing a ballcap favored by US special forces, and knowing that 3rd Group's major AO is A-Stan, I also noticed that he had a patch of what looked like the 3rd Group crest velcroed to the back of his vest when they showed the footage of him getting off the plane.

Was he attached, or otherwise alongside US special forces? My knowledge of Brit military is limited, what are Ghurkas?

Gurkha's are recruited from Nepal and are some of the most formidable soldiers in the world.

Check this for an overview http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigade_of_Gurkhas

Better to buy a book on them for a more detailed account.

[BlackScorpion 0]

Yeah, you could quite sincerely say the Japanese feared them during WWII.

As for the sticking with US SF... that sounds reasonable, seeing as his role was a Forward Air Controller; calling airstrikes and such. The anonymousity of the SF units also helps I guess.

[Messiah 2]

or, and this might be delving into the imagination a little too much, he could have just... bought the cap... somewhere... same deal with his plate carrier.

lots of random shit to be purchased at the various airbases he would have transfered through.

its a baseball cap... I can go buy one in town here in Copenhagen. It doesn't thus entail that I'm attached to some covert special forces unit operating out of my office.

[Necromancer- 0]

or, and this might be delving into the imagination a little too much, he could have just... bought the cap... somewhere... same deal with his plate carrier.

lots of random shit to be purchased at the various airbases he would have transfered through.

its a baseball cap... I can go buy one in town here in Copenhagen. It doesn't thus entail that I'm attached to some covert special forces unit operating out of my office.

That is also very plausible..

There are tons of these things on ebay.

[martinovic 0]

Lmfao, i love how you can call me moron, and you go on to say "they may have lived that way for centuries, but that doesn't mean they like it"

Seriously lmfao, that holier then thou crap is just stupid, so you think its up to us to force change onto these people? Man thats dumb, so you think that for thousands of years they have lived this way, and hmmm they hated it so much they never bothered rise up?

Thats some of the biggest crap i heard, your telling me that every Afghan hates their life and ruling body? If that were the case they would simply travel across the border, these people don't want western soldiers bombing their country and telling them they are giving them freedom.

What you expect them to be happy? For centuries these people have their own way, and we burst in the door and force "freedom" down their throats?

Get real, the middle east will always be the same, and rival Islamic groups will always be fighting for power, and please, get off my dick because I'm not up the arse of the army and actually have the will to generate my own thoughts and opinions rather then turn sheep.

You can love it all you want, it doesnt change the fact that it is true.

Before you start claiming stuff, do research on it. All you need to do is watch the fucking TV and it'll tell you all you need to know to see that you are horribly wrong.

And whats with this whole force change onto them?

90% of Afghans hate the Taliban. All the Taliban do to do with them is use their land to fight, and use the afghans to belnd in and support themselves. Most Taliban come accross the border from Pakistan.

Get real, do some research before you post or form your opinions. Just because you cant see something, it doesnt mean its not there. And considering what you said to your "friend", I dont even want to debate with you anymore.

I'm sorry to go further off topic here, but i just have to wade in here...

That's a load of bullshit you just posted there, quite frankly.

The Taliban are Pushtun, they are the organized extension of the Pushtun tribe, the Pushtun tribe is the majority of Aghanistan. They support the talibs. They want the talibs. They want them to rule.

The pushtun also live in Pakistan, yes. But to say the taliban are not afghanis is horseshit.

Not everyone thinks like you, not everyone wants to live like you. Until you understand that you will just keep getting stuck around the globe trying to spread Coca Cola and abortion rights.

Now i would just like to refer you to your own words:

Quote[/b] ]Get real, do some research before you post or form your opinions.

Yea how about you do that? "Research" isn't watching the TV like a zombie. It's called the lie box for a reason.

[six6six 0]

I'm sorry to go further off topic here, but i just have to wade in here...

That's a load of bullshit you just posted there, quite frankly.

The Taliban are Pushtun, they are the organized extension of the Pushtun tribe, the Pushtun tribe is the majority of Aghanistan. They support the talibs. They want the talibs. They want them to rule.

The pushtun also live in Pakistan, yes. But to say the taliban are not afghanis is horseshit.

Not everyone thinks like you, not everyone wants to live like you. Until you understand that you will just keep getting stuck around the globe trying to spread Coca Cola and abortion rights.

Now i would just like to refer you to your own words:

Quote[/b] ]Get real, do some research before you post or form your opinions.

Yea how about you do that? "Research" isn't watching the TV like a zombie. It's called the lie box for a reason.

Its a pity for you then that my research was more than just watching TV. This week, I just happen to have talked to a number of people who have been to Afghanistan in the past 6 months, including one who was an intelligence officer, and multiple combat officers.

I talked at legnth to them, and they said, no matter where they went, the Afghans were not hostile to them at all. It was all from elsewhere.

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

or, and this might be delving into the imagination a little too much, he could have just... bought the cap... somewhere... same deal with his plate carrier.

lots of random shit to be purchased at the various airbases he would have transfered through.

its a baseball cap... I can go buy one in town here in Copenhagen. It doesn't thus entail that I'm attached to some covert special forces unit operating out of my office.

It's not the same. It had a subdued american flag on the front and a square of velcro on the back. That exact same cap is worn by at LEAST 3rd Group. I have searched and searched various tacticool suppliers, and none carry that hat. It's an issue item from a single supplier, if he had one the only plausible reason is that it was given to him by one of ours.

*edit*

Apparently, it's a so-called.... "Special forces tactical cap" and can be purchased from the internet, but I ask why would he do that?

[Messiah 2]

search and ye shall find.

I don't know, drop him an email and ask? Perhaps he wanted to be 'l33t', perhaps he met a bloke at Khandahar who said 'hey, you're that limey prince bloke' and gave it him as a present. Maybe he won it in a chance game of strip poker with Osama bin Laden.

Does it actually matter? I merely wanted to make a point that perhaps people were jumping to unusual conclusions a little too quickly. There are any number of reasons why he has that cap, that PC, those different velcro tabs. I put it down to spending a few hours at Khandahar and spending some money, or meeting some Americans who gave them him as souvenirs (which of course means that possibly these were the fabled special forces, but its not the only possibility of course)

[martinovic 0]

I'm sorry to go further off topic here, but i just have to wade in here...

That's a load of bullshit you just posted there, quite frankly.

The Taliban are Pushtun, they are the organized extension of the Pushtun tribe, the Pushtun tribe is the majority of Aghanistan. They support the talibs. They want the talibs. They want them to rule.

The pushtun also live in Pakistan, yes. But to say the taliban are not afghanis is horseshit.

Not everyone thinks like you, not everyone wants to live like you. Until you understand that you will just keep getting stuck around the globe trying to spread Coca Cola and abortion rights.

Now i would just like to refer you to your own words:

Quote[/b] ]Get real, do some research before you post or form your opinions.

Yea how about you do that? "Research" isn't watching the TV like a zombie. It's called the lie box for a reason.

Its a pity for you then that my research was more than just watching TV. This week, I just happen to have talked to a number of people who have been to Afghanistan in the past 6 months, including one who was an intelligence officer, and multiple combat officers.

I talked at legnth to them, and they said, no matter where they went, the Afghans were not hostile to them at all. It was all from elsewhere.

I'd smile at an invader too, afterwards i'd plant some bombs.

When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite.†-Churchill

Sure afghanis are going to smile at a bunch of armed dudes giving them some supplies.

Go up to Pushtun Country along the paki border without guns and food, then ask them again.

The "northern alliance" supporting afghanis are the minority non-pushtun tribes that are really happy that you guys allowed to to get rid of the pushtuns...

[scary 0]

At the end of the day, this country is run by the government, the Royal Family are just people who, for some strange reason, get rich off of the taxes of the British people.

They pay a damn site more into the system than they get back and are probably the best national Ambassadors in the world, which is something money can't buy.

Quote[/b] ]I mean, at the end of the day, if he dies our country won't drop dead, i mean i could understand if the entire labour party joined the Infantry.

I suspect there would be a spike in the instances of blue on blue.

Quote[/b] ]And i totally agree with the guys commenting back on the ye olde days when KINGS and other royals would go to battle, but heres the difference, when our royals went to war, they did so only ever in a time of desperate need, well our kings anyway, our kings would only ever go to war if our lands were ever in danger

Go give your history teacher's head a wobble. When our Royals went to war it was for profit and territory. Except when it was with the French, they just deserved a damn good thrashing.

Quote[/b] ]Plus this war is a joke, I'm all for supporting your men out there, but he was selfish and idiotic in his decision to go out there, as hes putting our men in danger fighting in a war thats unjustifiable,

He's a Cornet, not CDS, he was told to go and he went.

Oddly enough, your average Taliban wouldn't be able to tell Cornet Wales from Britney Spears, even less so when Cornet Wales is wearing Osprey, Mk6A and a shemagh.

Quote[/b] ]i could understand if the Germans were invading again, but he went over there to shoot at villagers with AK47's who are doing no more then protecting there land, whats the bloody point?

Been there have you? Any evidence that it is villagers with AK47s protecting their land? If not, feel free to wind your neck in.

Quote[/b] ]Thats the main reason i never joined the army even though it was my plan since i was 13, hell no am i going to risk my life for crap pay, dodgey equipment fighting a BS war when there are much more justifiable locations to "liberate" (Zimbabwe for one)

I'm quite sure I get paid more than you, have no issues with dodgy equipment and Zimbabwe wanted its independance and got it. It's not our fault sub-Saharan Africa suffers from endemic corruption. France would have been a better example.

Quote[/b] ]And if a militiaman is ever close enough to see prince Harry, he'd already be dead, check alot of the footage coming out of Afghanistan, most the combat is fought at a distance double football fields.

What the hell is that supposed to mean?

Quote[/b] ]Either way, when we leave the Middle East, it will be all for no reason because I'm damn sure the Taliban has grown double since we attacked their countries and I'm pretty sure we aren't going to want to stick around for the centuries it would take to wipe out every Middle Eastern Muhadjadeen intent on protecting their countries from invaders.

How are you damn sure? Do you have some facts or are you just guessing?

When you've finished with your history teacher, turn your attention to your geograpy teacher. Afghanistan is in Central Asia, not the Middle East.

Quote[/b] ]Would you like it if the Taliban came over here and dropped bombs all over our houses and set up camps in our towns, telling us the way our government is treating us in unfair and wrong, and they were here to bring Sharia law to our country?

Or if they were providing facilities for training Al Qaeda who wanted to fly planes into tall buildings in order to establish an Islamic planet?

Quote[/b] ]every soldier in the British Armed forces, chose to join the army

Wrong.

Quote[/b] ]every British soldier also has the right to deny active service, they chose to go.

Of course, there is a big conference where everyone that wants to go puts their name into a hat.

Quote[/b] ]My childhood mate is in Afghanistan at the moment, he chose to go so thats his responsibility, i told him if he dies he would have died for nothing, he didn't care why they were there or what they were doing, i mean how could he, no one knows why we are there anymore.

I'm glad I don't have 'mates' like you.

Quote[/b] ]get off my dick because I'm not up the arse of the army and actually have the will to generate my own thoughts and opinions rather then turn sheep.

Are they really your own thoughts and opinions or are they those of the hippy, poofy the-world-is-all-fluffy-and-nice group at school/college? Have you ever spoken to Afghanis and asked them what they want?

I'd ride twenty quid that his "childhood mate" muttered something along the lines of "Dick" as he walked away.

I'll have 20 on it being his imaginary friend that doesn't exist.

- Prince Harry goes to Afghanistan as a soldier.

- Media reported that Prince Harry is in Afghanistan.

- The British Ministry of Defense announces that Prince Harry will be withdrawn from Afghanistan.

So?  

I don't get why there should be a fuss about any of the above mentioned three points.

Because point two led to point three. It shouldn't be up to the media to dictate who can do what job. It's no different than the media printing names and addresses of people serving in Afghanistan.

its a baseball cap... I can go buy one in town here in Copenhagen. It doesn't thus entail that I'm attached to some covert special forces unit operating out of my office.

A likely story. Clearly a double bluff. Just come clean and admit you were the third one on the balcony.

Apparently, it's a so-called.... "Special forces tactical cap" and can be purchased from the internet, but I ask why would he do that?

Because he is a ginger and no one, not even Terry Taliban, deserves to be exposed to ginger hair. I believe it is against the Geneva Conventions.

The Taliban are Pushtun, they are the organized extension of the Pushtun tribe, the Pushtun tribe is the majority of Aghanistan. They support the talibs. They want the talibs. They want them to rule.

The pushtun also live in Pakistan, yes. But to say the taliban are not afghanis is horseshit.

The Pashtuns make up about 1/3 of the population of Afghanistan, which means that 2/3 aren't Pashtun. Most of the current Taliban are Pakistani Pashtun and most of the Pashtun do not support the Taliban.

To quote yourself, that's a load of bullshit you just posted there, quite frankly.

Quote[/b] ]Yea how about you do that? "Research" isn't watching the TV like a zombie. It's called the lie box for a reason.

As I'm on leave from somewhere sandy ending in 'stan', perhaps you would like to tell me what research I should do.

[Messiah 2]

its a baseball cap... I can go buy one in town here in Copenhagen. It doesn't thus entail that I'm attached to some covert special forces unit operating out of my office.

A likely story. Clearly a double bluff. Just come clean and admit you were the third one on the balcony.

I could, but then I'd also have to admit the only baseball cap I could find was one of those red and yellow jobbies with the helicopter blades on top. Not quite the same.

[Pathy 0]

Big F-off Post.

Two Words: Fucking. Mint.

[welshtrigg 0]

Something I found interesting when watching some footage is that he was wearing a ballcap favored by US special forces, and knowing that 3rd Group's major AO is A-Stan, I also noticed that he had a patch of what looked like the 3rd Group crest velcroed to the back of his vest when they showed the footage of him getting off the plane.

Was he attached, or otherwise alongside US special forces? My knowledge of Brit military is limited, what are Ghurkas?

jesus H christ on a pushbike,

u a airsofter looking for a prince harry loadout?

here,u,go

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/7272546.stm

who cares about the baseball cap!

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

Something I found interesting when watching some footage is that he was wearing a ballcap favored by US special forces, and knowing that 3rd Group's major AO is A-Stan, I also noticed that he had a patch of what looked like the 3rd Group crest velcroed to the back of his vest when they showed the footage of him getting off the plane.

Was he attached, or otherwise alongside US special forces? My knowledge of Brit military is limited, what are Ghurkas?

jesus H christ on a pushbike,

u a airsofter looking for a prince harry loadout?

here,u,go

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/7272546.stm

who cares about the baseball cap!

No, I'm a prior US- Army serviceman with 2 trips to Iraq, 1 to Afghanistan, and in my time with USASOC I have been embedded alongside 2 seperate ODA's from 2 seperate groups, both of whom were using the hat. It was a simple observation followed by speculation. It's not my fault if certain people decide to make more of something than what is there.