Project: UK Forces

[orson 0]

Not many places in the Uk for supacat to trial the Jackal, that resembles Ghaners.

nope you need to go to Wales for that

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

Not many places in the Uk for supacat to trial the Jackal, that resembles Ghaners.

nope you need to go to Wales for that  

I was thinking more south London on a Friday night...

[somebloke 0]

True Rock, but they actually want to keep the vehicle after the tests.

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

True Rock, but they actually want to keep the vehicle after the tests.

...so what we are saying is that Afgahnistan is the best place to test it?

[Messiah 2]

Not many places in the Uk for supacat to trial the Jackal, that resembles Ghaners.

nope you need to go to Wales for that

I was thinking more south London on a Friday night...

lol - add the occasional sand pit, and you're sorted

[Rhodite 3]

I noticed it only has 2+1 crew, clearly not mainstream use, (hence why pathfinders are using it I guess)

I do wonder why they felt this was a better alternative to say the WMIK? they appear to have the same amount of fire power so perhaps it was more to do with ruggedness or reliability.

would love to know if anyone knows the real reason for there introduction.

All the same it looks like a good platform, but nothing, NOTHING is squaddie proof.

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

I noticed it only has 2+1 crew, clearly not mainstream use, (hence why pathfinders are using it I guess)

I do wonder why they felt this was a better alternative to say the WMIK? they appear to have the same amount of fire power so perhaps it was more to do with ruggedness or reliability.

would love to know if anyone knows the real reason for there introduction.

All the same it looks like a good platform, but nothing, NOTHING is squaddie proof.

Its supposedly more suitable for rough terrain as it has the variable ride height gizmo and a much better drive transmission for off road use.  It’s not uncommon for the Land Rover WMIKS to get stuck; I’ve dug a few out of ruts in various parts of the UK.  I can only imagine how often they get stuck in the Afghan terrain.  The Supacat  MWMIK is supposed to be a more rugged and reliable platform... and the UK MoD PE is concerned about LR staying power in the market place given the financial problems in recent years.  You can see this in the last few years’ procurements.  The Panther (it is ever comes into full service), MRAPs, MAN trucks and MWMIK.  All are supplied by companies with a very stable financial background and a healthy product development path.  Land Rover is rather stagnant in it military designs.  They’ve been re-cycling the same basic product for 30 years.

[Messiah 2]

How do you mean 'real' reasons? (Are you suggesting an Augusta Westland esque reason? To bolster a flagging company?)

The main ones cited by the MoD were longer range, greater payload, greater mobility, higher speed (off road only I think).

Also I believe the EWMIK modifications failed to address the problems with the WMIKs in Ghaners i.e. cracked wheel rims, shot suspension, too little payload (you've seen some of the more recent pictures of the Lannies with the rear suspension almost bottoming out under the weight of kit being added) and mine survivability (presumably direct strike, rather than road side).

It simply couldn't cope with what are extreme terrain conditions, and what it had to carry (all the new ecm, bowman, weapons, fuel, ammunition).

I did read today (yes, work was that slow) that the MoD had been after a WMIK replacement since 1999 (according to battlefield magazine), so I guess its been on the cards for a while, but what I expect was a rather quicker decline in the condition of the wmiks than expected, prompted the UOR.

2 + 1 again, aye. The Danish version has the addition of a rear facing gunner. I'm not sure why this wasn't requested by the MoD, but its addition would mean (obviously) less payload space for useful things.

[edit]

and all those Rock posted . Land Rover's all but stopped its military vehicle program, hasn't it? As you said, its recycling the same stuff, and the latest WMIK I saw, was nothing more than a cut down civilian version, rather than a Wolf (although that may be down to EU emissions bollocks)

[da12thMonkey 1943]

I noticed it only has 2+1 crew, clearly not mainstream use, (hence why pathfinders are using it I guess)

I do wonder why they felt this was a better alternative to say the WMIK? they appear to have the same amount of fire power so perhaps it was more to do with ruggedness or reliability.

would love to know if anyone knows the real reason for there introduction.

They can carry more stuff and go further, more quickly (off-road at least).

Also, we can't buy brand-new Wolf-spec Land Rovers any more due to regulations regarding engines and emissions. Ricardo converted the EWMIKs from existing TUM and TUM FFR vehicles in stock (fitting new, WMIK-spec, reinforced-chassis' ) as well as reconditioned WMIKs and some sourced from units no longer using them. We couldn't really continue to do that for the number of vehicles that the UOR envisaged so we went and got somet better. Plan is to get about 100 of them, so they will pretty much take over from Land Rover WMIKs in theatre.

Edit:- ooh, two people got there first.

Rock: Panther'll 'definitely' be coming into service this year.

[MehMan 0]

I do recall talking to a friend about the landies. He did mention something about boots getting worn from kicking the landies so much. So presumably the Jackal has a bit more going for it, hopefully.

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

Rock: Panther'll 'definitely' be coming into service this year.

Yeah but in what sort of numbers? Last I heard from Abbeywood they were considering massively reducing the numbers due to the ridiculous cost overruns

[da12thMonkey 1943]

Those patronising hedgehogs from 'KiT!' say 326 with Enforcer OWS, 75 without.

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

Those patronising hedgehogs from 'KiT!' say 326 with Enforcer OWS, 75 without.

LOL I'll believe it when I actually see it.

[da12thMonkey 1943]

You doubt the wisdom of the hedgehogs?

Nah, in all seriousness, like you I can see them taking a significantly large pair of scissors to Panther given the problems it's faced and current operational requirements. The ever changing FRES program and resulting life-extension plans for current vehicles will probably start biting into Panther too.

Anyhow, we should probably get back to discussing addons we've already made. Discussing our future plans is derailing the topic a bit.

[Rhodite 3]

Ah thats good to hear, more often than not you hear of replacement kit "rushed" in because there is a need but often it is addressed by the lowest bidder etc..

Good to hear they are an improvement, I wonder what the troops in the field make of them. That would be the real test, its all well and good saying its better than the WMIK for instance. But is it really? I sincerely hope so!

Anyways thanks chaps.

[shinRaiden 0]

Aren't the reasons cited above part of the justification the ADF made for going to a tandem rear axle on the LRPV's? Dunno, I'm a n00ber in that area.

[Hoot1988 0]

messy, i know that your all usually so secretive about these but dont spose you could show a WIP pic of the jackel? or maybe a wireframe?

[Messiah 2]

Shin - I'm not so clued up about the Aussie 'Land Rovers' (ugly things that they are), but it certainly would seem a logical reason.

Heard some mutterings that the MoD may purchase the HMT600 (6x4) to replace the unimog in 'mother ship' situations (i.e. where you have a party of 400's as the attacking force, and a 600 that can follow along in convoy and carry much more ammo, fuel, food, shelter, etc). Having indentical parts for all the vehicles in the party makes great sense.

Hoot - not secretive as such, but as a team 'rule' we don't normaly show buldozer 'renders' or wireframes. It just tends to make people think things are far more complete than they are, whereas ingame shots mean its another step close to being complete.

I may post something in the WIP thread if I get the time.

[dkraver 1]

How do you mean 'real' reasons? (Are you suggesting an Augusta Westland esque reason? To bolster a flagging company?)

The main ones cited by the MoD were longer range, greater payload, greater mobility, higher speed (off road only I think).

Also I believe the EWMIK modifications failed to address the problems with the WMIKs in Ghaners i.e. cracked wheel rims, shot suspension, too little payload (you've seen some of the more recent pictures of the Lannies with the rear suspension almost bottoming out under the weight of kit being added) and mine survivability (presumably direct strike, rather than road side).

It simply couldn't cope with what are extreme terrain conditions, and what it had to carry (all the new ecm, bowman, weapons, fuel, ammunition).

I did read today (yes, work was that slow) that the MoD had been after a WMIK replacement since 1999 (according to battlefield magazine), so I guess its been on the cards for a while, but what I expect was a rather quicker decline in the condition of the wmiks than expected, prompted the UOR.

2 + 1 again, aye. The Danish version has the addition of a rear facing gunner. I'm not sure why this wasn't requested by the MoD, but its addition would mean (obviously) less payload space for useful things.

[edit]

and all those Rock posted . Land Rover's all but stopped its military vehicle program, hasn't it? As you said, its recycling the same stuff, and the latest WMIK I saw, was nothing more than a cut down civilian version, rather than a Wolf (although that may be down to EU emissions bollocks)

to my knowledge danes dont use either land rovers or the MWMIK???

[Edit] Strangly enough i did a google and found a single picture of two that must be on test. i dont think they are fielded anywhere. if yes it must be SF since the "normal" units use mercedes GD and mowag piranhas and eagles

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

to my knowledge danes dont use either land rovers or the MWMIK???

[Edit] Strangly enough i did a google and found a single picture of two that must be on test. i dont think they are fielded anywhere. if yes it must be SF since the "normal" units use mercedes GD and mowag piranhas and eagles

Shows how little you know. The Danish SF were one of the first customers for the Supacat HMT 400 (a varient of what is know in the UK as an MWMIK).

[dkraver 1]

Shows how little you know.  The Danish SF were one of the first customers for the Supacat HMT 400 (a varient of what is know in the UK as an MWMIK).

I actually know a lot about the danish forces

Anyways just showed it to a friend and my cousin who both are active in the army. And who have been in iraq and afghanistan and none of them had seen it before. So not just me

In iraq and the first deployments in afghanistan the SF used special built hummers.

[dm 9]

Yes, and this thread is about the Brits, so I dont see how its relevant...

[dkraver 1]

Yes, and this thread is about the Brits, so I dont see how its relevant...

i just asked a question to something that was writen in one of the post And found the answer myself but then got flamed since its apperently are well know info for brits which vehicles the danish SF are buying but not for people in the danish forces and people who are interested in them

[Messiah 2]

anyway...

I've got a series of 10 or so photos of the Danish variant lying on my Hard Drive. They're taken at a base in Denmark, not in the field, and you can see three or so vehicles. They've still got plastic sheeting on the seats, so extremely new of course. You're welcome to the photos if you wish, they were posted up on mp.net a while back.

and yes, from what I heard they're for SF use, rather than mainstream. They were fully kitted out, and had danish number plates, so I don't think they were a test vehicle.

Anyway, since we haven't released or shown pictures of the Jackal/MWMIK then I think that can conclude our conversation on the matter.

[-23rd-_2Lt_Griff 0]

All screenies look amazing! Keep up the good work chaps, can't wait to use these in game! :-) x 1000