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bella1

Digg in

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it would be cool if the ai had the abilety to digg trenches, underground bunkers and to digg in vehicles pistols.gif

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I completely agree with being able to dig in, but rather than building underground bunkers i think these should be something included in the editor.

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I completely agree with being able to dig in, but rather than building underground bunkers i think these should be something included in the editor.

agreed, unless your planning on playing for a few weeks on end on the same mission, building trenches and bunkers would be a waste of time that would otherwise be used playing.

(im still waiting for someone to start a thread on simulating going to the toilet, with the option to pull out the crap bin and burn it all with gasoline.)

if its not something that is a MUST *cough* MUST!!!have, and a "would be nice to have" then please think about what you're asking for befor posting.

this is not directed at anyone, just for everyone.

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OFP/ArmA game engine hasnt yet allowed anything goes inside ground only dig in objects under ground graphically. There is no such of geometry that will make possible a foxhole into to layer of ground it is the ultimate limit to game engine. Simple so far no ground/soil/environment deformation impossible to make such of things.

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i agree i think that you should maybe be able to dig foxholes, not neccesarilly trenches, also i think you should be able to make small embankments of earth around your tank. but this should be times thing and not instantly

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OFP/ArmA game engine hasnt yet allowed anything goes inside ground only dig in objects under ground graphically. There is no such of geometry that will make possible a foxhole into to layer of ground it is the ultimate limit to game engine. Simple so far no ground/soil/environment deformation impossible to make such of things.

True for ArmA, but ain't this a suggestion thread for ArmA2? wink_o.gif

Of course, heighmapping actually forbids going underground, having caves or to simply visualise hang-overs with the grid (and only by it) due to its two-dimensional nature. There can only be one height at a specific vertex with heightmapping iirc. But that's the reason other games don't provide the players with such a vast terrain. In Unreal, BF2 or whatever, it is all pre-modelled. Even the hills and mountains. Their engines indeed support hang-overs and caves, but from a specific scale on, their data-structs (BSP-Trees or whatever) become noticeable under-performing in contrast to just a two-dimensional grid, pimped with quadtree-datastructures. The very same goes for view-distances.

But you could combine it like the bunker mods currently do overground just vice-versa. You would need to remove the vertices that are forming the flat ground at the position you want the foxhole or trench to be. You know about the position as you know every other object's position, so why not put the foxhole/trench at the removed vertices' position? Technically possible - you can also combine voxelterrain with polygonal objects on it, so why not combining two polygonal techniques - but with some limitations:

#1: What about Geo-LOD. The whole LOD mechanism (be it ROAM(2), CLOD, SOAR or whatever) could get weird looking with flipping triangles (introduces visible cracking/tjunctions-effects and stuff) once the whole logic/math is broken by some missing/culled vertices.

#2: When it comes to slopes the idea of having one foxhole-model would become somehow impractical and therefore would cause the creative geniuses to make more models that fit the optical needs. Many models for different environments would increase the load and costs.

#3: What about collision detection. Even if the ground-vertices are hidden, the playermodel still collides with them. You have to take the foxehole as the collision-model from now on, to make the player sink.

#4: Making it dynamic would force the engine to refine the resolution of the two-dimensional height-grid to lower vertices and then send all that to all the clients in mp. I bet it would end up the same way like the dynamic destruction system BIS had in mind did, compared to what they have scheduled now to code. Too heavy load.

#5:(factored out) What's with streaming.

I've tried dynamic terrain myself with bruteforce techniques and a spatial expanse as outcome that was a bit ludicrous. But for the topic itself i would recommend to read the following paper on dynamic terrain: 'Real-time Extendible-resolution Display of On-line Dynamic Terrain' by Yefei He National. It's however ROAM-based, so i don't know whether or not it also applies to the engine, BIS has knitted.

Anyhow, i say digging is realisable but you have to keep in mind that it is a game and what would work in singleplayer don't has to work in multiplayer as well. Besides, i guess BIS already did some research in this field. Imho, their problem most likely is: Even if it works fast enough and at low-cost, how to integrate it into a grown-for-years-rendering-engine without giving up former concepts and designs.

Of course we want such a feature (i do for years now wink_o.gif), but it brings up a lot more problems as it seems - prima facie.

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This is available in ArmA doesnt need to come with ArmA2 depends on the map u ll make.

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Relying on trenches being built into maps at fixed spots would not be an improvement but a modification.

A real (huge) improvement would be to add editor objects to lay trenches and have the maps modified on the fly during the game. I mean, to temporarily adjust some terrain data shouldn't really be rocket science considering the complexity of this streaming engine otherwise.

Man, I would open a bottle of champaign and send one to Prague should this ever happen biggrin_o.gif

VictorFarbau

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