All Mods For Different Countries Are Bad Idea?

[Tankbuster 1733]

Go ahead and release your Greek Huey or your Chinese Dog Sled or your Turkish Golf Cart. Be proud of your work. At the same time you might want to think about reskining the mod/addon so it fits in with Arma's storyline/theme and so your hard work is seen by a maximum audience.

I can see your point, but I think it's a minority view, I'm afraid.

Personally, the background to the game is secondary to getting on teamspeak with a few mates, flying low in a UH60 (no matter whose flag is painted on the side) or hurtling down a hill side in a MBT or pincering some OPFOR. While all this is happening, I'm not thinking "Oh, I wonder how this will affect the Sahranian political scene". I'm thinking, "Damn, I need to get more points than my mate".

[SlipperyJim 0]

Nobody's being anti-american, here.

I would argue different.

Quote[/b] ]i'm sick of playing the "good" American soldier in any game.

Quote[/b] ]Americans tend to have a certain arrogant viewpoint that anything not American is alien and foreign and not acceptable.

Quote[/b] ]it is quite possible that the rest of the world is tired of pretending to be the All American Hero

You guys thought I was American and came out full guns blazing, lol.

Hey I understand that frustration with wanting to see yourself reflected in games. It just seems silly to have spent all those hours coding and making 3D models and not spend the 30 minutes to slap on a different texture so some of your work fits in with Arma's original themes.

(yes, before some person looking for an argument points out I know that sometimes the textures would have a lot of differences and take more time)

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

Nobody's being anti-american, here.

I would argue different.

Quote[/b] ]i'm sick of playing the "good" American soldier in any game.

Quote[/b] ]Americans tend to have a certain arrogant viewpoint that anything not American is alien and foreign and not acceptable.

Quote[/b] ]it is quite possible that the rest of the world is tired of pretending to be the All American Hero

You guys thought I was American and came out full guns blazing, lol.    

Hey I understand that frustration with wanting to see yourself reflected in games.  It just seems silly to have spent all those hours coding and making 3D models and not spend the 30 minutes to slap on a different texture so some of your work fits in with Arma's original themes.

(yes, before some person looking for an argument points out I know that sometimes the textures would have a lot of differences and take more time)

Congratulations you've missed the entire point of most people's replies.

At the risk coming dangerously close to the "Here's the BIKI got make your own", If you are happy with "30 minutes slap on textures" then you can always seek permission from the creators and make your own.  Before you criticise and insult then go and try and make something for yourself.  Even if it is just a retexture.  It’s not as easy as you obviously think it is.

Also, I'm not anti american.  I'm just tired of every computer game being US = heroes Rest of World = Evil Tyrannical Despots.  If you take a look at 95% of the computer games out there that is the theme.  We're talking about a computer game here and we can only respond to what you post.  If you post you want more US-centric addons that the sort of reply you will get.

[whisper 0]

Nobody's being anti-american, here.

I would argue different.

Quote[/b] ]i'm sick of playing the "good" American soldier in any game.

Quote[/b] ]Americans tend to have a certain arrogant viewpoint that anything not American is alien and foreign and not acceptable.

Quote[/b] ]it is quite possible that the rest of the world is tired of pretending to be the All American Hero

You guys thought I was American and came out full guns blazing, lol.

Hey I understand that frustration with wanting to see yourself reflected in games. It just seems silly to have spent all those hours coding and making 3D models and not spend the 30 minutes to slap on a different texture so some of your work fits in with Arma's original themes.

(yes, before some person looking for an argument points out I know that sometimes the textures would have a lot of differences and take more time)

Proper texturing is not a 30 minutes job. Even with small differences.

And usually, specific army marking is not just a tag on a vehicle. You are really overlooking the work of these people. I can see why they get angry when you tag their work with a "Greek tag on a vehicle" remark, tbh.

[Casimir 0]

ok...

From what ive read so far i seem to understand Jim wants more units that fit in with the game?

Everyone else seems to be saying that they still want to make the mod for there country.. right?

Well what i dont understand is why dont you release two skins for all the new vehicles/units/aircraft ECT.

Now there are alot of good mods out there (HWM, RKSL ECT.) and alot of skilled addon makers out there who are all creating really great addons for the country that the mod focuses on. But rember that by just maiing a quick re-tex you could make it fit into the game for the U.S. it just adds diversity and means thta if youve made a really nice vehicle (lets say a Tank for this instance) and youve made it for BLUEFOR at the moment the U.S. have one tank the Abrams, but wouldnt it be nice to have a few more tanks for the U.S. to use, a bradys or somthing similar.

im not telling people to stop maing addons/mods for specific countries, but for the ones that it is posible maybe give them a re-skin so they will work for U.S. or RACS or SLA or maybe all of them.

I could not begin to comprihend how to make a modle in O2 or how to Re-tex, i have great respect to those that can but, it would be nice if you just made a U.S. version.. it fits in with more of the team then as well....

[whisper 0]

ok...

From what ive read so far i seem to understand Jim wants more units that fit in with the game?

Everyone else seems to be saying that they still want to make the mod for there country.. right?

Well what i dont understand is why dont you release two skins for all the new vehicles/units/aircraft ECT.

Now there are alot of good mods out there (HWM, RKSL ECT.) and alot of skilled addon makers out there who are all creating really great addons for the country that the mod focuses on. But rember that by just maiing a quick re-tex you could make it fit into the game for the U.S. it just adds diversity and means thta if youve made a really nice vehicle (lets say a Tank for this instance) and youve made it for BLUEFOR at the moment the U.S. have one tank the Abrams, but wouldnt it be nice to have a few more tanks for the U.S. to use, a bradys or somthing similar.

im not telling people to stop maing addons/mods for specific countries, but for the ones that it is posible maybe give them a re-skin so they will work for U.S. or RACS or SLA or maybe all of them.

I could not begin to comprihend how to make a modle in O2 or how to Re-tex, i have great respect to those that can but, it would be nice if you just made a U.S. version.. it fits in with more of the team then as well....

I'll quote myself again :

Quote[/b] ]Proper texturing is not a 30 minutes job. Even with small differences.

And usually, specific army marking is not just a tag on a vehicle. You are really overlooking the work of these people. I can see why they get angry when you tag their work with a "Greek tag on a vehicle" remark, tbh.

[CyDoN 0]

What i think is that anyone who wants to release an addon is free to release it the way he wants it with any flag he wants and any skins he wants and any anything he wants. Now to complain that someone is lazy about making an addon/mod you have to know that they do not get paid.

Lastly about the whole american propaganada in games, you just have to know that the biggest market of video games is in the US so you see games that have the american hero with also a multination army (example Gears of War were the squad consists of a white a black a chinnese - jap generaly eastern a mexican and an italian). So we cant do anything, the thing that companies want from games is to sell; when a game is based on a storyline you just have to be able to make the person fell that he plays a role in the whole world of that game. Imagine Crisys to have you as a Mujahedin or "terrorist" generaly and planting IEDs on american convoys personaly i dont think that this game would any comercial success.

[baddo 0]

Nice topic!

First a little praise... what has kept me playing OFP for so long is the exceptionality of the game, and the Finnish Defence Forces Mod (yup I'm Finnish, and patriotic for sure). Without the FDF Mod my interest in OFP would have dropped much earlier. Fortunately for the community and not just for Finnish players is that the people who made FDF Mod for OFP are clearly much better than average to design a Total Conversion Mod. I think I tried most of the bigger mods for OFP and FDF Mod is in my opinion the most well-balanced to the original content regarding visual quality, features and configuration values. Many other mods did not feel like they belonged to the game. I'm sorry if someone doesn't like this opinion but that is honestly how I think.

Yeah...? You might ask. Well the point is that a mod of the quality of the FDF Mod is the kind of stuff this community needs, no matter the flag in the vehicles. If someone doesn't feel okay for playing Finnish units, then they can play Russians against Finnish units and see how that feels. I like to do that and I don't have any emotional problems while doing it, even though I said I'm a patriotic Finn. If playing Russians doesn't feel right... then, as I said, FDF Mod fits very well into the original content of OFP, you can play as CWC Soviets or Yankees, and also use the Finnish & Russian units in the same mission if you like, and the gameplay is still balanced, fair and fun. With many other addons a significant problem is that they are are so different that playing against the original units, or against addons made by some other group, is unfair or just doesn't feel "right" for whatever reason.

The colours of the flags are important, but I think more important would be to have more effort from addon/mod makers to balance the configurations and visual quality so that the addons could be used in same missions without having that awkward feeling of unbalanced, "that thing looks and feels like it doesn't belong into the group", content.

I am one of those people who would rather see something else than an American theme in a game every now and then. I don't have problems with playing American units but it is done so many times that it gets old doesn't it? Also there is a problem that always presenting the American side as the "good" side just can't be right... the World isn't black & white even though some people obviously try to make it look like it is. But this is more than likely governed by the fact that the Americans rule the Western entertainment business and companies don't like to take a risk by not putting in Americans as the good guys. It would be interesting to see what kind of reaction a "Gulf War" game would get if the player's side was Iraq. Would the Americans ban such a game from their markets.

What mod of the scale of OFP's FDF Mod could get me very excited?

British, of course. I enjoy lots of British things. Funny people aren't they. I mean just compare the TV shows... the British are in a class of their own when making TV comedy and quality documentaries. Yes that's a good justification for the ArmA Mod.

French, well why not? I enjoy watching the French people on TV news, when they go on strike and block every road and harbour and burn a car here and there, and beat up a couple of Finnish people because they go round the road/harbour blocks, and they can even get away with that... police will give them no penalties because it's part of their culture or that's how it looks to me. Those kinds of people deserve a big mod of their own and I would play it too.

Germany, well of course. I mean just look at how punctual and official people they are. Isn't quality and sophistication guaranteed if the Germans make addons?

Czech Republic. Well why not? Think about all the possibilities. We could get to play with Marek and Ondrej more likely. Save BI Studio building from communist invasion. Go get weapons and ammo from the MoCap studio and make sure the programmers keep working. Et cetera.

Yugoslavia (all parties) Well has the time past enough to re-create the Balkan War(s)? It can be sensitive I admit. Negotiations for the Kosovo independence are going right now, and there are a lot of heat in those negotiations. I am not sure if the time is right to introduce the events of the 1990's into a game, but it would certainly be interesting to play a game having that setting.

Alright I'll stop here as this gets too long...

The point is, make content which fits well alongside original content and plays well with other addons and you have a potential winner in your hands. I think it then doesn't matter so much what the colours of the flag are, people will play it anyways, as has been proven with FDF Mod.

[Winters1807 0]

US units annoy me, and why bother making it to fit in with the storyline anyway? Its not that good tbh.

The whole point of Arma is that we can make our own story lines, our own units, our own environments.

The default content was never the real point of this game, it was the addons that could be made for it. Why limit them to the Sahrani style when we can mod anywhere in the world?

[benreeper 0]

The main thing I look for in a large mod is that both sides of the conflict is created. Take OFP for example. If people are tired of the US versus the Soviets, then what's the point of a UK versus those same, stock Soviets. Create a full conflict and anyone will relate to it. I loved FDF and I44 on OFP because it was complete and made me for the country I was playing for (either side).

--Ben

[baddo 0]

I have to add to my previous post that I think that people should direct their efforts into -- hehe, if it isn't coming across clearly enough from my previous post -- creating content which belong to the theme of the game! Create content which doesn't try to make the game be some other game like hmm what comes to mind... there are lots of examples, I think not hard to find for you. People try to replicate movies and games which have certainly nothing to do with a military simulation.

Well maybe there is a (small) market for mods themed completely out of military simulation, and I certainly give people the right to create what they want, but isn't it so that the product (OFP & ArmA) can only be complemented with content which belong to the same genre as the original theme of the game does? Creating a monkey-zoo-donkey-mod will in my humble opinion take a sidestep from what the game actually is. Complementing the original theme of the game would give us a more complete product in the end, wouldn't it?

Alright, having the sidesteps too can be said to be a richness, so yes go ahead and take the sidesteps, I won't be angry. I just think the original theme of the game would be better to be complemented, not sidestepped.

Another thing is, if modders just can and have time to do it, they should try to get voice acting done in the native language of the units they create (for things as big as FDF Mod). A big selling point of FDF Mod to me is that the voices are in my language. Even different dialects are represented! That is certainly great. German, Russian, French, British-English, even Swedish, and what others, bring it on I will play it and certainly will enjoy listening to your language!

[BraTTy 0]

Explain to me how would one go about making a WW2 plane and it fit into the Arma theme ? Not only that... Sahrani pilot in a Japanese plane? I am confused on how one goes about making addons for a fabricated unrealistic opposition?

What would be the motive to create new lands and islands?

Your offending alot of mods with this topic.Granted mod teams are sparce compared to the ones from OFP.A mod is a total conversion and what would you be converting if your addon fit into the original unrealistic theme.

Does anyone remember the mod "Operation Pacific Front" altho unreleased ? They changed everything and it looked wicked.

People will make what they want. Its just the way it works. Some like futuristic,modern and historical.If you want modern unrealistic addons the tools were released , why waste energy convincing others to make what you want.Its a contributing effort.

I don't know if its just me but someone with interest for example in German history normally likes to make historical German stuff and often is one of the best choice individuals for the job. Someone with interest in British history etc...

People don't usually make what others want, they make what they want, why else would I make WW2 Pacific stuff ? (less than 10% interest) I can't care , it hurts my personal progress altho I am not active ATM.I try not to care.

From experience often a modteam starts (usually ONE main person with/out helpers).Lets use Pacific as an example, I'll bet you that If I made some planes,carriers that others would get interested, then someone would want to make the mod a new island ,someone else some bunkers , on and on.Hopefully generates enough interest and the team grows and mod completes.Thats the way it works and your right, it hardly finishes.

What could one expect for free and peoples free time. If teams were doing it for money they may be interested in making what the majority wants so they could sell it after!

I recall someone telling Johnsart that his wicked nice looking WW2 tank don't fit into the game...after I see the tank I am inspired to make him a driver, a plane to bomb it etc....

He's so good at making the tank others that are interested could pitch in and help him complete the side projects.

Why did Bis include a Camel? They didn't include a WW1 pilot.

You know where I got my inspiration from ?

DKM's OV10 Bronco...thats right, Vietnam ERA addon turned my fancy that people can make what they want and add it to the game.I had a blast with it

Is it just me or is the topic starter a pessimist, all I have seen is complaints ? The tools are out for everyone to make what they want, make tweety bird for all i care.The game includes civilians but some will say only make war items (lol I have in the past) but many feel it adds atmosphere to have an extra car, bicycle,lawn mower or such. Can't please veryone.

I could easily say the opposite , if your making modern stuff to add to the theme your wasting time because theyre is already enough items to play that theme that came with the game.

I personally think the engine would support an excellent Vietnam ERA mod, so I look at that Hellenic Huey different than you.They made what they wanted and if I were making a Vietnam mod I would ask their permission to modify/skin it to what I wanted ,saving me ALOT of time and they would feel good that they helped another mod.

ramble,ramble,grunt,ramble.....

[LeftSkidLow 1]

Whenever I check armedassault.info, most of the addons are just reskins for whatever country and maybe a different rifle. I just don't give a damn about them, and I think alot of others feel the same way. In fact I would absolutely rather download a giant sliding turd as a playermodel, at least it would be new and original. I know its offensive to modders and rude, but most of us just look at all those kind of mods as a waste of talent. That shouldn't matter though, if you want to reskin a country's soldier go for it, do it for yourself, but just realize not many are going to be interested in downloading it.

[sparky 0]

Well, i think that you should check armed assault.info more often, cause you're MISSING a lot of addons/mod packs that are not just reskins. So please, rephrase your statement.

[NoRailgunner 0]

With some nice addon you can make some nice missions. And the choice is up to yourself

Heavy is the head that wears the crown... the more variants you have the more you can make. But for the dumb one is better to have no choice or maybe only one - two would be definitely the maximum, most of them will get overheated and start complaining.

Why some ppl. don't understand and respect that others working to improve something in games? Maybe it's a lack of education

[SlipperyJim 0]

Lol, I love you guys.

Look, I don't want this thread to turn into a typical forum battle in which people fight just for the sake of "being right" (even though they completely twist the discussion into something it wasn't).

As I have mentioned many times in this thread already people who make addons/mods for this community are very much appreciated! All your hard work is respected.

When you are making a vehicle addon please consider releasing a different version that fits in with the "USA Vs Russia" theme of Arma.

[hypno toad 0]

First off I need to make it very clear that this thread is not meant to be disrespectful in any way towards the hard work that mod makers do. You guys are the best.

Last night I was looking through all the mods in development shown at Armaholic and two things struck me that I wanted to post about:

1) A lot of great mods in development are ruined (if you pardon that expression) because the mod maker wants to make it a "Greek" tank or a "Italian" helicopter or a "Chinese" uniform. They may be modeling an American made vehicle but they want to add a country flag from where they live on the side of the vehicle. Why limit your mod so much? It seems a shame to do this. It is great that you are patriotic but more people would enjoy your mod if it wasn't so restrictive. Perhaps also release a different version of your addon that isn't so restricted?

2) So many mods won't ever get finished because they are biting off more than they can chew. For instance they plan on making all these vehicles for a large "Chinese" mod or a large "Turkish" mod but the cold hard reality is that 90% them will NEVER get finished. Perhaps team up with other mod makers instead and make a mod not based on a specific country (or do the countries involved in Arma instead).

These is a lot of amazing freaking talent in the community but it all seems splintered. Everyone is off doing mods for their own country.

Hopefully people will not take this thread in a negative way. A big thanks to all mod makers for your efforts and good luck with your projects!

I don't think making mods with your soldiers is patriotic. I believe patriotic means you would die for your country.

[SlipperyJim 0]

Case in point

[icehollow 0]

Americans tend to have a certain arrogant viewpoint that anything not American is alien and foreign and not acceptable. Frankly there is plenty of content to please North Americans as it is the largest market and companies want to cater to their desires. Frankly, it is quite possible that the rest of the world is tired of pretending to be the All American Hero and that is a main source of the desire for creating mod content.

Actually that's not really true. US military uses mostly US products because it's more cost effective for them , not because they look down on anything non American. Infact there are still plenty of foreign designs within the US military.

Getting back on topic though, I think the "all mods for different countries" is a good idea. Remember, variety is the spice of life.

[BraTTy 0]

You also have to remember that all country addons aren't the same components either.

When the US sell/lease/loans to other countries many parts are stripped out and even replaced with different things.

So all country addons are more work than just changing textures and flags for them to be authentic

[Teliko 0]

There is no THEME with ArmA, especially not USA vs Russia...

BI makes the engine, the community makes the addons...

The whole point of moddability in ArmA is so we can move away from the stock "theme".

[Casimir 0]

@whisper

i didnt say a 'quick 20 min reskin' maybe make a good reskin for it.. it will take a while but it will make more people willing to use it.

that or when you have finished the addon give permision for people to make a riskin that fits in, or maybe request it?

[Tic-Tac 0]

Add-on makers (mod teams or whatever) will only want to make a mod/add-on if they are intrested in the theme. If they're not interested then they will lose motivation and therefore stop doing it.

Game programmers make and design games that they hope will sell well and make money. They may not nessecarily want to work on this particular theme but they are motivated by the hope that will get more money in their pocket.

Mod and add-ons are free and the feel is very different from the game that the derived from (E.G. CSS and Insurgency mod).

Not much else to say except:

Keep up the good work everyone

[SlipperyJim 0]

There is no THEME with ArmA, especially not USA vs Russia...

Really? Gee all this time I thought with OFP and now Arma the main two sides were split between American and Russian equipment. M4/M16 on one side and the AK on the other side.

[Teliko 0]

There is no THEME with ArmA, especially not USA vs Russia...

Really? Gee all this time I thought with OFP and now Arma the main two sides were split between American and Russian equipment. M4/M16 on one side and the AK on the other side.

If you read my whole post you'd understand why.