Health?

[smellyjelly 0]

Something I noticed in Arma is that it's too easy to kill someone because most of the time it just takes one or two shots anywhere and they'll die. This makes killing enemies too easy, and new comers get frustrated by suddenly dieing.

Anyone who's played CSS knows that in order to kill someone you almost have to aim for their head, and the sense of pride and skill that comes with it. I think ArmaII could benefit from something like this. I don't want to make it arcadey though, because ArmaII should still be realistic, it's just that some of the values need tweaking.

Headshots with a standard rifle should still be instant kill, although I'm not sure if a helmet would make any difference.

Then the torso should be one-three shots without armor, two-four with.

The arms and legs should take several hits, because when the player is hit he should be more concerned about the effects than death.

(I'm not sure if these values are realistic. They seem fine to me though)

So, what do you think? Keep in mind that I'm not trying to turn Arma into CSS, but I do think that the guns may be a bit too powerful.

[Average Joe 0]

Anyone who's played CSS knows that in order to kill someone you almost have to aim for their head, and the sense of pride and skill that comes with it. I think ArmaII could benefit from something like this.

I dont... really

[smellyjelly 0]

Yea, I realize that most of the people here hates CSS. I still think it's a well made game although it's been replaced by Arma.

Anyways, I was just using it as an example.

[Inkompetent 0]

Well, this game simulates the following health states: healthy, light wound (some body part), heavy wound (for example unable to stand) and death.

Since it doesn't inlcude the part where you are crippled, bleeding to death, is unconcious, squirming on the ground for half a minute after your Interceptor vest broke your ribs after a rifle hit, or crying for mommy and trying to hold your guts in I think the current system works well.

You don't neccesarily die on that shot, but you are put out of any kind of combat-efficient state.

[NeMeSiS 11]

Yea, I realize that most of the people here hates CSS. I still think it's a well made game although it's been replaced by Arma.

Its not replaced by ArmA, they are two completely different games that both aim at different goals, ArmA tries to be a realistic combined arms simulator while CSS is a normal FPS.

EDIT: Btw, ill shoot one-three shots in your chest before you make a suggestion like this again.

[xnodunitx 0]

Odd, most rounds I'v played on Arma have involved what you said, when I shoot somebody in the head they die, when I shoot them in the chest they take two or three and the legs take two or three.

[smellyjelly 0]

Quote[/b] ]Well, this game simulates the following health states: healthy, light wound (some body part), heavy wound (for example unable to stand) and death.

You don't neccesarily die on that shot, but you are put out of any kind of combat-efficient state.

You're right, although I rarely find myself in the middle. I'm either perfectly fine, or dead.

Quote[/b] ]Its not replaced by ArmA, they are two completely different games that both aim at different goals, ArmA tries to be a realistic combined arms simulator while CSS is a normal FPS.

Actually I just meant personally.  

Quote[/b] ]Odd, most rounds I'v played on Arma have involved what you said, when I shoot somebody in the head they die, when I shoot them in the chest they take two or three and the legs take two or three.

Really? I just checked and it's one headshot, one body shot, two limb shots, three foot or hand shots and they're dead. I tested it with both the M4 and M9, both produced identical results.  

Maybe it depends on the difficulty?

[madrussian 347]

I like one-torso-hit and you're down for the count.  Unless it's purely a glancing blow, you're going to go down and stay down with one torso shot, body armor or not.

It's realisitc that way.  Keep in mind that soldiers are trained to aim for the torso for a number of reasons.  

(The biggest of which is they are most likely to actually hit their enemy that way.)

As an aside, I always hate those games that kind of mandate that you aim for the head all the time.  It's really annoying and breaks the immersion, imo at least.

[vilas 477]

i was always saying ARMA is not realistic

sometimes 2 shots in foot and enemy is dead

you can go near enemy, he is not seeing you behind wall/corner, he lies on the ground, you only see his legs

2 shots and he is dead

totaly unrealistic

vests in ARMA do not protect from bullets

i don't know what will be in ARMA 2 , but i hope they will do more to add "realism" !

i suggest that shots in the some part or leg or hand shouldn't kill in "simulator", only disabling from fight (loose heavy weapons)

in SOF2 it was made good in my opinion

but when i saw "progress" between OFP and ARMA mostly in graphics, i don't believe BIS will make progres in simulation, closing to real world in "2"

[mrj-fin 0]

I hope to see fully coverage body damage simulation. There should be realistic wounding system/bleeding ala WGL to OFP/ bullets or any projeticles which piercing soldiers skin would does realistic damage.Possibilities to decompose any limbs or organs from bodies. There have to be a option to simulate body armor and a shot from too far exaple whit pistol wont do any damage to body when bullets kinetic energy doesnt deliver enought to piercing armor and bounce off. I still havent seen a game on PC where I cant kill a opponent by a shot to legs. There might being some nice coding to ArmA by solus in his SLX/mods.

[Average Joe 0]

Full Damage simulation is said to be a big focus with codies for OFP2

[Colossus 2]

Personally I think this is the only part of the engine which haven't been improved since OFP.

Medivac, usable stretchers (not static), more localized damage when you get hit (uper-arm, stomach, neck, foot, chest, etc.), body armor should have an effect on penetration. The list is endless..

[TrunkzJr 0]

Like the other guys said, it's finally nice to be able to die in the chest in 1 shot or even 2. It makes me wanna stay alive. Hopefully in ArmA2 they can have it so they if you shoot someones legs or foot they'll drop right to the ground in pain but still a threat, rather then slowly laydown.

[Inkompetent 0]

Personally I think this is the only part of the engine which haven't been improved since OFP.

Medivac, usable stretchers (not static), more localized damage when you get hit (uper-arm, stomach, neck, foot, chest, etc.), body armor should have an effect on penetration. The list is endless..

Oh, yes. Foldable stretchers for the medics to carry as equipment would be really nice to have to evac soldiers. Let's say that medics can only stabilize and can't heal, and you'll have to be brought to some kind of field hospital to get back into action.

Would give medics a real task in missions like Evo instead of healing 1/20 people that gets shot since the rest dies instantly from their wounds.

[SaBrE_UK 0]

I heard Full Spectrum Warrior had a good damage system.

[EddiePrice 16]

Really? I just checked and it's one headshot, one body shot, two limb shots, three foot or hand shots and they're dead. I tested it with both the M4 and M9, both produced identical results.  

Maybe it depends on the difficulty?

smellyjelly, shoot yourself three times in the same foot and tell me if you're still conscious. I think people sometimes forget that ArmA tries to simulate real combat, so therefore it simulates the real consequences of being shot as best it can.

The AI aren't robots, they are supposed to have limits like humans. Getting shot really hurts, a lot. If anything one shot to anywhere that would indeed hurt someone should stop the unit from moving, and he should roll around on the ground screaming.

[SaBrE_UK 0]

Perhaps adrenaline will prevent a flesh wound from incapacitating the victim, but yes, a full on wound should make them roll around in pain or attempt to crawl to cover. Panic would be great to see in AI.

[nichevo 2]

I quite like the low (and by that I mean realistic) damage thresholds in OFP / ArmA.

It adds to the scare- and immersion-factors. I think OFP is the only game where I've been scared to move out from behind cover.

But like all things I think an option is best best choice, so people can choose. Isn't there already something called "Extended Armour" in the difficulty options?

[The_Captain 0]

I have a wounding system for a map I'm working on that incapacitates people (forces the healing animation) and setcaptives them when they take .5 damage. Any nearby friendly soldier (ai or player) can the bandage them until they an stand again (but not heal completely unless they're a medic). In a small config addon, I also doubled a man's health from 3 to 6.

In this framework, a 7.62 to the limbs would wound, but not kill, while a single 5.56 would leave a soldier ambulatory. A 5.56 to the chest would wound, and a 7.62 to the chest was a kill. Anything to the head would kill. Wounded soldiers are unable to move or shoot, and aren't targeted by AI. They can, however, be manually targeted by ai or accidentally killed. I'm considering adding bleeding out while wounded as well.

I was unsatisfied for a while with the general damage system in ArmA, and the addition of a 3rd 'wounded' state in addition to "alive" and "dead" make combat much more engaging for me. A further differentiation between .50 cal, 7.62, and 5.56mm also makes things more interesting (outright kill, usual kill, and sometimes kill). When every bullet kills in one shot, why have different bullet types?

Now, soldiers who would be critically wounded instead of killed in reality are shown as wounded instead of killed outright. With the amount of rounds thrown around in arma, the wounding usually only happens with unaimed or distance shots (at close ranges you put full bursts into enemies anyway). As a player, catching a stray round gives you the chance to be healed (while being ignored by AI in the meantime), instead of being shot at while your crippled self tries to crawl to safety...

That was just my simple solution to "lots of death, no wounding", as well as crippled AI who carry on the fight to the death.

There's also something magical about executing a wounded enemy soldier to take his weapons.

[CyDoN 0]

why I think is that there should be a precentage of chance the body armor will be penetrated for instance on head the chance to survive would be 10% and kevlar 45-60% (i read somewhere about those values in Iraq) then if u get hit u should die instantly and not get injured i dont think that if u take a bullet even to you hand, where the bones are going to break and even cut in the middle. HPs are not a good solution.

But i think arma is still a game and when you get shot you have to move on (and if the medic fixes you, you ll have to be OK to contiune playing). Even you get hit on the kevlar your bones will still break and that will still make you unable to move.

If you want a reallistic amra when u get shot you ll have to fall to the ground and wait the AI to finish the battle (?) i think not or even in PVP then enemy to finish you off.

Medics at hospital usuall cut you limbs if u get injured really bad... we dont want that in arma.

[SaBrE_UK 0]

It may be unrealistic but it's the player who needs to have fun, not the AI. In Afghanistan the ranges are so long that few kills are 100% confirmed, you just spray machine-gun bullets on their position, taking the odd aimed shot too. The player could go through a whole campaign and get 2 or 3 kills if the game is "realistic". The player doesn't want to sit tight and stay in cover for hours like in real life. There has to be some kind of artistic licence in games.

Considering this, I've come up with this: the player could be given "health" in the form of near misses (the first few bullets that would hit you don't actually hit, to give you a chance). Too many near misses and the next one will hit you and perhaps give you a scrape (flesh wound), to show you that you are low on the metaphorical "health". There is no visual indicator of your "health" on screen. If you get a flesh wound twice in a short time, perhaps the next shot will incapacitate you or kill you, marking that your "health" is at 0% or whatever.

In addition to this system, probability can be included. Obviously if an enemy if firing at you from 10 metres, you will definitely be hit in his first few shots. At 300m, if you are running at a discordant angle to him, then he will be likely to miss many times before a hit.

Near misses should be very dramatic, with whizz-crack sounds and a jolt of the in-game view, and perhaps a blur just to give atmosphere. Maybe you will run faster for a bit to get into cover (adrenaline rush).

However, this system is very complicated as you can see and probably very hard to code. Obviously, things would be very different in multiplayer, so you don't see your bullet miss another human player when you know it should hit. Also, on AI soldiers in singleplayer, they'd just have the correct armour system that you are all talking about.

Does anyone else think my system would be a good idea, at least for the player?

[CyDoN 0]

it seems like a good idea but only vs AI,coop etc a part of the game in which i am not intrested at all