IMWM

[Rhodite 3]

[AIF] Kris

+2WL & 1 Week PR

Not entirely sure why you wrote what you wrote and in the way you wrote it. But it is not tolerated here.

Dicussions and debates are welcome, what you ellected to post was neither and showed your lack of basic respect members of the forum here.

[layne_suhr 0]

Ok guys honestly i don't see anything childish about what i said. I was pointing out the truth and some members of IMWM have left because ACE are controlling their whole mod. They are telling them when to make stuff and what not to make etc... they have turned it into ACE: IMWM literally! The decision to join up with ACE has it's Pro's and Con's

Pro's:

Extra realism

Much more features

Con's:

Extended Development time

No previews or news about either mods

Strict working conditions within the mod

The bad things about joining ACE are the things that are losing the public interest... Tell me does anyone here know what they've done since they've joined ACE, for all we know they could have 0 progress....

[Architeuthis 9]

Ok guys honestly i don't see anything childish about what i said. I was pointing out the truth and some members of IMWM have left because ACE are controlling their whole mod. They are telling them when to make stuff and what not to make etc... they have turned it into ACE: IMWM literally! The decision to join up with ACE has it's Pro's and Con's

Whether that’s a bad development or not depends on the details of the cooperation between the two parties. If the IMWM agreed to become part of the ACE mod (thus agreeing to their terms ) then I don’t see a problem with ACE becoming the dominant party deciding on what needs to be done. From the information I’ve gathered this seems to be the case (not entirely sure though, so correct me if I’m wrong).

Pro's:

Extra realism

Much more features

Con's:

Extended Development time

No previews or news about either mods

Strict working conditions within the mod

The bad things about joining ACE are the things that are losing the public interest... Tell me does anyone here know what they've done since they've joined ACE, for all we know they could have 0 progress....

Who’s to say they are losing public interest? Are you in the possession of quantitative data supporting such claims? I highly doubt that.

[layne_suhr 0]

Well if a game came out without anyone knowing about because they didn't provide any previews or news about it would many people get it??? I speak from what i've seen on the IMWM forums not on behalf of everyone.

[Architeuthis 9]

Well if a game came out without anyone knowing about because they didn't provide any previews or news about it would many people get it??? I speak from what i've seen on the IMWM forums not on behalf of everyone.

There is a time and a place for everything. Apparently ACE feels that now is not the right time to provide the community with information concerning the IMW mod. There are a multitude of possible reasons behind such a policy. One of these is preventing a buildup of an incorrectly timed hype. We all know what kind of disastrous effects those can have.

[manzilla 1]

Just because people stop asking for updates and screens or posting in a thread does not mean a thing when it comes to public interest. Just because people stop posting or asking for updates, mean simply that, people stopped asking.

I'd say most people fully realize that asking for updates or screens, or demanding for that matter, from ACE/IWM is feudal. Plus the majority of us realize that most mod teams would prefer people don't ask anyways. Most of us have the patience to wait silently for a release and realize that if we ain't helping, we have absolutely no right nor intention of pointless begging for info.

Now since this is only my personal assessment and I can provide no proof to support my assumption, I could very well be wrong and "public interest" is/has faded due to ACE's silence. Well if that's the case, tough shit! If you can't wait for these guys to be ready and you miss the release due to lack of info, well shit, I won't be feeling sorry for anyone while I'm enjoying the fruits of their labor.

Now I'll get back to waiting "silently" for this Mod to see the light.

Take care guys.

[firefox1 12]

I too am waiting for a long time for releasing this mod that never came out for the Operation Gulf War Crisis (OFP), I hope that this will not happen with IMWM  

[manzilla 1]

Indeed that would be a shame. I gotta believe, regardless of what internal problems result from the merger of IWM with ACE, this mod is in good hands. From what I've heard ACE is operating within a private beta environment so eventually, and as long as the models from IWM have been made, we will see this project in some form or another. At this point there's probably been to much time involved in these projects for them to never see at least some sort of public beta version. If that's all I ever see, I'm sure I'll be happy. SLX and ECS come to mind for me. If nothing more comes of either of those, I can say I thoroughly enjoyed what improvements they brought to my initial ArmA purchase.

In essence that's all that really matters to me. How much bang did I get for the $59.99 I put towards this game. And after well over a year at this point, it's been WELL worth my time and $$.

[Casimir 0]

Maybe we should not block up the space where they could be posting updates with pointless spamming of ACE is rubbish or ACE dosnt give us screens or whatever. Like Architeuthis said, theres a time and a place. The time is of there disclosure, who cares when it is just as long as it comes. But theres one thing we can decide, that the place they look for community suppiort isnt filled with junk and spam and people discussing why they do what they do. Its there choice, leave it to them.

[Pirin 0]

The bad things about joining ACE are the things that are losing the public interest... Tell me does anyone here know what they've done since they've joined ACE, for all we know they could have 0 progress....

Who’s to say they are losing public interest? Are you in the possession of quantitative data supporting such claims? I highly doubt that.

I know for me personally, given the extended development times of lots of amazing mods that I simply don't believe any will be released until they are finished.

Take the C-130 for example. Multiple groups have finished, working, viable C-130 addons. Multiple groups have said they are going to release them. What do we have today? Nothing. To someone that was really wanting to use a C-130 that's kind of depressing, right?

So rather than get all excited and expecting of these amazing new addons, I just tell myself "Well, nice concept there" and get surprised when/if anything ever gets released.

Personally I think the main problem is "perfection". Rather than release a good base and add on from there people are holding back their work until the unattainable point where everything is exactly perfect. The company I work for is building a computer program and we're doing it in stages. Each and every stage is complete and usable. Now, it might not have every feature of the end product, but each stage is complete with a certain set of features.

If AddOn makers took that approach I think you'd see a happier community. Lets say you wanted to make a B-2 Bomber.

Step 1: Make a B-2 model that flies like an A-10 as a replacement pack. Release it.

Step 2: Make a B-2 model that flies like a B-2 and has properly animated features and weapon bays. Release it.

Step 3: Make a B-2 AddOn which includes customized weapon systems, data systems, features, sounds and multiple skins and whizbangs and unit markers and whatever else. Release it.

Now, it wouldn't be perfect from the beginning, but it would be out there. Playable. Enjoyable. Each new release would be a huge event which totally changed the game playing experience and worth waiting for. Feedback and testing would be available for each step of the way on a scale that a small development team couldn't match. Eventually it would be perfect, but you'd have a happier community, less stressful devs and just about the same timeline from concept to perfection as you would have had you never released anything till you were finished, but you'd be able to use it all the way along.

Keep in mind I'm not trying to single out any specific mods or developers or telling anyone how to work, just saying if I had the skills to do this, that's probably how I would.

So yeah, count me as at least 1 quantitative data unit that loses interest in something that "never" gets released.

[VXR 9]

The bad things about joining ACE are the things that are losing the public interest... Tell me does anyone here know what they've done since they've joined ACE, for all we know they could have 0 progress....

Who’s to say they are losing public interest? Are you in the possession of quantitative data supporting such claims? I highly doubt that.

I know for me personally, given the extended development times of lots of amazing mods that I simply don't believe any will be released until they are finished.

Take the C-130 for example.  Multiple groups have finished, working, viable C-130 addons.  Multiple groups have said they are going to release them.  What do we have today?  Nothing.  To someone that was really wanting to use a C-130 that's kind of depressing, right?

So rather than get all excited and expecting of these amazing new addons, I just tell myself "Well, nice concept there" and get surprised when/if anything ever gets released.

Personally I think the main problem is "perfection".  Rather than release a good base and add on from there people are holding back their work until the unattainable point where everything is exactly perfect.  The company I work for is building a computer program and we're doing it in stages.  Each and every stage is complete and usable.  Now, it might not have every feature of the end product, but each stage is complete with a certain set of features.  

If AddOn makers took that approach I think you'd see a happier community.  Lets say you wanted to make a B-2 Bomber.  

Step 1: Make a B-2 model that flies like an A-10 as a replacement pack.  Release it.

Step 2:  Make a B-2 model that flies like a B-2 and has properly animated features and weapon bays.  Release it.  

Step 3:  Make a B-2 AddOn which includes customized weapon systems, data systems, features, sounds and multiple skins and whizbangs and unit markers and whatever else.  Release it.

Now, it wouldn't be perfect from the beginning, but it would be out there.  Playable.  Enjoyable.  Each new release would be a huge event which totally changed the game playing experience and worth waiting for.  Feedback and testing would be available for each step of the way on a scale that a small development team couldn't match.  Eventually it would be perfect, but you'd have a happier community, less stressful devs and just about the same timeline from concept to perfection as you would have had you never released anything till you were finished, but you'd be able to use it all the way along.

Keep in mind I'm not trying to single out any specific mods or developers or telling anyone how to work, just saying if I had the skills to do this, that's probably how I would.

So yeah, count me as at least 1 quantitative data unit that loses interest in something that "never" gets released.

What to do against all the different versions that are spread around once version 3 is released?

I personally do not like updates, I'd wait a little longer to get something that is perfect or allmost perfect.

[layne_suhr 0]

Well on the IMWM it has been said that IMWM is not being released until ACE is released, and when would that be?

[Pirin 0]

What to do against all the different versions that are spread around once version 3 is released?

I personally do not like updates, I'd wait a little longer to get something that is perfect or allmost perfect.

Hmm, good point. Personally I've always just removed the old version and used the latest version of whatever mod I'm interested in. As a user that hasn't really even been a conscious thought for me, but for someone not in the IT field, I can see that might be a problem. Especially for a dev trying to trouble shoot a problem with an older version.

[Shockley 3]

Interesting thread, ACE and IMWM merged due to the simple fact we had more resources and further development progress. The things they wanted to achieve we are able to supply, some members of IMWM did not fit in with ACE and left by choice, no hard feelings they just went on to other projects.

ACE is currently on the 14th revision of it's private beta testing, trust me when I say we are trying to get it out to the public. I can understand the frustration some of you guys have but it's equally frustrating for the developers that are constantly battling the engine capabilities amoung other things. Also members merging their projects into ACE had been a task from 6th Sense to MaddMatt's Effects to name two off hand, I could easily add 4-8 more names. In that you can imagine the complications in re-writting code and making everything work seamlessly.  Also with new content being released we are trying to integrate items into ACE still, Jonny for instance as an example is reworking his USMC units to fit into ACE and with his recent SFODA models have to be worked in the ACE ruck system. We don't want to release a bug filled version hence why we are on the 14th revision now.

Also there has been a few internal managment issue, Q left and I took over .. now I have handed it down to Sickboy for the time being. I have spent so much time devoted to ACE it was time for me to take a break. Alot of the guys have RL issue to take care of also.. they work ,have families and kids to devote time to.

I'll try to put some screenshots together so atleast you can see the current status. I can express to you that ACE changes the way you play ArmA, the teamwork factor will play a huge role.

[usmc123 1]

@ July 22 2008,01:31)]Too much to quote

Wow, I use to be a skeptic. I used to be like everyone else that is tired of ACE's silence. Now though, now it seems ACE will be the mod for ArmA. I mean it seems like you you guys have most of the big name addons, mods, and sounds all rolled into one. Plus all the stuff you guys have made. It seems that ACE will be basically it's own game with the ArmA engine. It will have everything I want so far, I can't wait to play it! Good Luck guys, I could never do the work some of you addon makers do. My hats off to you. Oh and lets have rush delivery on those screenies.

[dslyecxi 23]

Sig has been nice and diplomatic here. I'm going to take a spin at being blunt.

There is not one person on the ACE or (former) IMWM team that owes anyone any of the following:

1. Information about the mod(s)

2. Screenshots of the mod(s)

3. Anything else regarding the mod(s)

For those that have actually sat in this thread and have flung trash at either team for not giving them screens, or updates, or whatever... get over yourselves!  Nobody owes you any of that. When you treat a mod team (which does everything for the love of the game, aka: not for money) like trash, what do you seriously expect in return?

If you can't stand the lack of media for ACE, go find something else to occupy your time. There are so many better things you can do with your time than sit around complaining that people who are doing hard work for free are not doing exactly what you want them to re: PR efforts. I would much rather see our developers work hard at actually finishing the mod than spend limited and precious developmental time to cater to the desires of some of the public re: screens or info. If you're desperate for ArmA screens, there are plenty of people willing to put on a show for you in the Screenshots & Video thread in the General forum. If we have time to get some screens out - great. If not, big deal! You can take all the screens you want once you have the initial release in hand.

I can't believe the attitude of some people in this forum. It really is sickening to see. It's a good thing that the ArmA community amounts to more than that, else you'd never see any mods released.

[thepiespy 2]

Well said dsl and sig, people are being extremely childish. Ive seen many mods fail because they released an early and incomplete project because of pressure from the community, and no matter how many times they told them it was a beta or demo, people just say "this sucks" and never looked back.

[M.Andersson(SWE) 4]

Im like with RKSL...

I look forward to anything...Even the news sig just gave

was enough for me...

But as Dslyecxi just said...They do not OWE us anything...

Keep up the good work and put those kids to bed...

(Proud parent my self)

[bravo 6 0]

I totally agree to what was said.

People must understand it takes time and most important is that everyone do it freely on their little free and available time because they like what they do and they are also doing it for the community.

I don't understand the negative attitude from some of these people.. It will only make things worse.

"Time will come"

[dale0404 5]

For everyone on the ACE mod team, ignore these idiots who want this and that and they want it now. Billox to them I say.

I for one cant wait for this mod to come out but I certainly wont be pestering anyone for information etc, I have just started doing missions and I know how frustrating and time comsuming that can be.

So for the ACE team who are doing this, hats off too you gents and like I said, ignore the twats who are getting on your (and everyone elses) nerves.

[layne_suhr 0]

I never said i wanted or that they owed us Screenshots! All i said was that they where (from what i understood from the IMWM forums) losing public interest.

I did not act "childish" and say GIVE ME SCREENSHOTS NOW! Find one quote on this forum from me saying that..... and honestly i have not seen anyone else saying that either

[PuFu 4591]

I never said i wanted or that they owed us Screenshots! All i said was that they where (from what i understood from the IMWM forums) losing public interest.

I did not act "childish" and say GIVE ME SCREENSHOTS NOW! Find one quote on this forum from me saying that..... and honestly i have not seen anyone else saying that either

Really? You don't need to put it up like "give me screens" to mean the same thing...

Quote[/b] ]

Well if a game came out without anyone knowing about because they didn't provide any previews or news about it would many people get it??? I speak from what i've seen on the IMWM forums not on behalf of everyone.

You are so wrong. The devs don't make money out of it. They don't get pay for it. A game's main purpose is to make money out of. This is not. So how can you compare it?

Believe it or not, when someone is making a mod, they first do it for themselves. Then for the community.

Taking screens takes time. Posting here takes time. Would you rather have screens and shit or a mod that works well? besides, i know it is said that a pictures is more than a 1000 words, but some features cannot be represented in pictures...

So, rest assured that ACE:IMWM development is not halted, and there is a huge amount of progress achieved each day

[dale0404 5]

So, rest assured that ACE:IMWM development is not halted, and there is a huge amount of progress achieved each day

[layne_suhr 0]

I never said i wanted or that they owed us Screenshots! All i said was that they where (from what i understood from the IMWM forums) losing public interest.

I did not act "childish" and say GIVE ME SCREENSHOTS NOW! Find one quote on this forum from me saying that..... and honestly i have not seen anyone else saying that either

Really? You don't need to put it up like "give me screens" to mean the same thing...

Quote[/b] ]

Well if a game came out without anyone knowing about because they didn't provide any previews or news about it would many people get it??? I speak from what i've seen on the IMWM forums not on behalf of everyone.

You are so wrong. The devs don't make money out of it. They don't get pay for it. A game's main purpose is to make money out of. This is not. So how can you compare it?

Believe it or not, when someone is making a mod, they first do it for themselves. Then for the community.

Taking screens takes time. Posting here takes time. Would you rather have screens and shit or a mod that works well? besides, i know it is said that a pictures is more than a 1000 words, but some features cannot be represented in pictures...

So, rest assured that ACE:IMWM development is not halted, and there is a huge amount of progress achieved each day

Hey i never said give me screens or updates or news mate! How exactly will giving out screenshots affect the mod (eg make it shit)

[bravo 6 0]

How exactly will giving out screenshots affect the mod (eg make it shit)

Some kinda work depends on a final "touch" for eye candy that can give an idea of the work, since you can only visualize it, also some creators prefer to have it all ready and set before a release of any picture.

People have to respect that decision and option. Its not much to ask.