IMWM

[manberries 0]

Im not an "expert", but I highly doubt that a terrorist orgaization(atleats not the ones we're fighting in Iraq), would take the time, or even have the money to buy a 1000$+ PC just to play ArmA with some addon...

Thats just my theory.... so what im trying to say, is im way for modeling real towns...

well guess what ur wrong they do. this is a game and it is not worth helping terror organizations for your own personal joy of reenacting the battles your honorable men in uniform have been fighting, and dishonoring them with little games

[Chip360 0]

Im not an "expert", but I highly doubt that a terrorist orgaization(atleats not the ones we're fighting in Iraq), would take the time, or even have the money to buy a 1000$+ PC just to play ArmA with some addon...

Thats just my theory.... so what im trying to say, is im way for modeling real towns...

well guess what ur wrong they do. this is a game and it is not worth helping terror organizations for your own personal joy of reenacting the battles your honorable men in uniform have been fighting, and dishonoring them with little games

haha, wow, okay, I really dont think that any terrorist will really be able to use ArmA for training, this is purely a stupid theory, total hogwash.

What would they be simulating?

You seem to be forgetting that the crucial role a trainer provides, is allowing a human to decide how they will make decisions in combat against a very real human enemy. An enemy that thinks, and tries to outmanuver him at every corner, the only gain from a simlutor for any terrorist would be this, to find ways of defeating their enemies "tactics"

Now lets look at ArmA, do we see intelligent Ai with the Us Army Playbook in hand here? NO! Of course not! The Ai in Armed assault are stupid as hell! And when they are made to be difficult, they can shoot through trees and such, they become super stupid soldiers. ArmA is a game, NOT A SIMULATOR.

VBS2, a real simulator, is played not against Ai (they are just filler) but against trained marines on the other side, real people against real people. The trainees fight against trained men, not stupid Ai.

So, what real training potential would Armed Assault have as a sim then? there really isnt any. You can say that they may look at all of the vehicle addons out there and "learn" from them... What are they going to learn? That when their tank runs out of ammo (designated by the big floating black box) they press the "end" key on their keyboards to successfully reload the tank? This is stupid.

So, the terrorists dont have any impressive or intelligent Ai to work with (THEY WONT LEARN MILITARY TACTICS UNFORTUNATELY UNLESS THEY ARE PLAYING AGAINST REAL MARINES), they wont be able to train in our vehicles (what good is a virtual vehicle in which the only work required to operate are the "W" "A" "S" and "D" Keys and the right mouse click for fire? What does that teach a terrorist?)

And, finally, I dont see ANY problems with having any maps modeled after real cities in Iraq. Seriously, without the crucial elements required for training, what good is an extremely unaccurate (but somewhat similiar but less varied) representation of a real world city? What good could that possibly do? There is absolutely no point in this, and believe me, the insurgents already have training camps and if they wanted to familiarize with their city, ITS RIGHT OUTSIDE OF THEIR DOOR, they are free to interact in the REAL environment, 1000's of times more varied and unique than its virtual counterpart, where they can note civilian hotspots, and REAL U.S. Routes through the city, why would they even want to screw around with an extremely inacurate "interpretation" of their city recreated from nothing more than satellite imagery taken from miles above the earth? Oh, and this is all assuming that our said terrorist with his expensive computer and copy of Armed Assault and a general udnerstanding of English and Modifications ( and the knowledge of this thread and this mod in the making and the availiabilty of the mod at the time --**unreleased**) actually lives in the city (created by an Arma mapper) and that the city is occupied by Blufor forces...

Think logically.... Armed Assault is a game, im afraid that a terrorist couldnt really learn anything of value here, or at least not anything they dont already know... grow a brain.

Ps: I Support the IMWM mod 100% and All of the Various Allied Forces fighting for the freedom of their countries. I believe the IMWM mod is for fun, lets leave the real war to the trained soldiers.

[Tawalkana 0]

Im not an "expert", but I highly doubt that a terrorist orgaization(atleats not the ones we're fighting in Iraq), would take the time, or even have the money to buy a 1000$+ PC just to play ArmA with some addon...

Thats just my theory.... so what im trying to say, is im way for modeling real towns...

well guess what ur wrong they do. this is a game and it is not worth helping terror organizations for your own personal joy of reenacting the battles your honorable men in uniform have been fighting, and dishonoring them with little games

I'm laughing my ass off right now. You must be joking about the Terrorists Organization buying a computer just to play this game thinking its a simulator. If they wanted to know weapon knowledge just buy a 30.00 book that has 90% of the weapons the USA uses... Seriously people these days... I just find this statement really funny

[MontyVCB 0]

Im not an "expert", but I highly doubt that a terrorist orgaization(atleats not the ones we're fighting in Iraq), would take the time, or even have the money to buy a 1000$+ PC just to play ArmA with some addon...

Thats just my theory.... so what im trying to say, is im way for modeling real towns...

well guess what ur wrong they do. this is a game and it is not worth helping terror organizations for your own personal joy of reenacting the battles your honorable men in uniform have been fighting, and dishonoring them with little games

I'm laughing my ass off right now.  You must be joking about the Terrorists Organization buying a computer just to play this game thinking its a simulator.  If they wanted to know weapon knowledge just buy a 30.00 book that has 90% of the weapons the USA uses...  Seriously people these days...  I just find this statement really funny

QFE, what complete and utter rubbish, VBS1 and VBS2 use maps which are based on real world terrain. Both programs are available to the public. And BIA ship to most places around the globe. So your arguement is mute.

[manberries 0]

based on real world terrain but are not the actual cities oh and is it such a stretch for them to use this program just as the few armies who are now using it? if a complete and advanced army finds usefulness in simulators than why cant terrorists? my suggestion was to base the maps off of real world places but not to recreate exact cities. These are notes to the creator, not the spoiled little children running around this forum. If you refuse to believe that terrorists use simulators for training then thats your own problem. I do agree there are other methods available for training purposes, which is why i agree it is sensible to create this mod. All i ever asked was to create fake cities modeled after those in real life. I have no interest in arguing with people who cannot see beyond their own enjoyment of ARMA. A final thought. These very ideas were expressed during the creation of all modern day war simulators. If gaming companies believe its a valid point then it is worth considering. I believe the modder can create a nice middle ground between exact iraq war and a completely made up war. I would encourage that you at least take a moment to consider my proposal.

[EricJ 724]

So anyways, like what's up with the mod dude?

[Jarvis 0]

What's to say some smart terrorists might NOT do the same thing there manberries? I'm for recreating the cities, it's not like they don't know them pretty well anyways.

[-Snafu- 77]

I thought this was going to be an update. Sadly it was just a couple people being pedantic.

There is an offtopic forum. Use it.

[ProPilot 0]

Woah guys, Calm down, To EricJ. We have been working like crazy on the mod, non stop. I cant say much, except for the fact that we unlocked all BIS vehicles, so we can do ALOT now, like slat armour to strykers etc, And trust me, we will be An update should be coming soon enough, stuff is in the works

[Stewy 1]

Thanks PP for the great news - I appreciate the hard work you guys are putting in!

Stew

[EricJ 724]

Cool bro, thanks!

[ProPilot 0]

Hehe, No problem guys, We also have a big surprise in store for christmas :P I cant share any more info though muahahah

[Chip360 0]

based on real world terrain but are not the actual cities oh and is it such a stretch for them to use this program just as the few armies who are now using it? if a complete and advanced army finds usefulness in simulators than why cant terrorists? my suggestion was to base the maps off of real world places but not to recreate exact cities. These are notes to the creator, not the spoiled little children running around this forum. If you refuse to believe that terrorists use simulators for training then thats your own problem. I do agree there are other methods available for training purposes, which is why i agree it is sensible to create this mod. All i ever asked was to create fake cities modeled after those in real life. I have no interest in arguing with people who cannot see beyond their own enjoyment of ARMA. A final thought. These very ideas were expressed during the creation of all modern day war simulators. If gaming companies believe its a valid point then it is worth considering. I believe the modder can create a nice middle ground between exact iraq war and a completely made up war. I would encourage that you at least take a moment to consider my proposal.

Manberries, did you not read through my response to your first plea?

Let's start here:

Quote[/b] ] if a complete and advanced army finds usefulness in simulators than why cant terrorists?

My friend, a complete and advanced army can find usefulness in VBS and VBS 2, Army Personel Trainers/ Simulators, not Armed Assault, a game for enjoyment. You seem to be forgetting, the usefulness of Vbs2, relies in the training given to the soldiers before hand, and the intelligence of the oponent they face, not in anything else.

For example, the military would like to see how a recently trained group of Hmmwv Crewman would hold up against say several armed and trained men (an ambush scenario). The Military will have a set-up with 20 or so men (depending on amount of resistance) playing as OPFOR, with real-world tactics against the trainees; the men training can get an idea of how the enemy would really act in a situation as theirs, and the overseers of the training could see how the soldiers would handle it, and what they may need to improve on. This is in essence, the foundation of a military simulator, the real intelligence, not AI. Without any real US MARINES to play against, a terrorist could never train properly against them. They CANNOT learn their tactics, and they CANNOT learn any new ways to go up against their formidible foe that they hadnt already known. You see, Vanilla ArmA Ai, even sophisticated VBS2 Ai, can not offer the real tactics or solutions that a human mind can deliver, and it will be years before they can.

Quote[/b] ]All i ever asked was to create fake cities modeled after those in real life.

okay, And apparently you didnt read what I said about Armed Assault Maps, and their complete uselessness. What purpose is their, without real people (or incredibly intelligent Ai coded with thousands of real military tactics), for a map based on a real city somewhere in Iraq? Let us just say that the Accuracy of the map (and all of the thousands upon thousands of different buildings were painstakingly recreated to make the map 100% noticable, an IMPOSSIBLE TASK) was extremely high, that it was nearly a one for one on the ol realism scale, what could a terrorist do with it? What purpose would a terrorist have with it? And why would that terrorist even bother to buy Armed Assault, and come onto this forum to download this mod, (if the magical and accurate map was indeed even of his own city), when he could get a MUCH better tactical view on the real world situation in the REAL CITY?

But wait, there will NEVER be a map so accurate, and even if it was its useless! Let me tell you something, it would take 100's of thousands of custom models to model every building and feature of a city to real-world standards, and lets just say we varied things a bit (WHICH obviously has to be done), then we can have say 100 or 200 or so custom buildings in the city (a city with thousands upon thousands of structures). So we have our models (that we created from what? Maybe 2 or 3 of those models were created from actual buildings in the city, but the rest the addon creator would be using would be basic generic buildings). Now we need to apply our sat maps, and all of this and such, and get all of the terrain to a 1:1 ratio (and most of the time, creators choose to scale down cities for ArmA, so the real validity of the map for true training purposes would be compromised here). Then it will take hundreds of hours more work to place every building down, and go through to breathe a little bit of life into the city, and even then, it will not be "real" quality, and it never will be.

Typically, when we say "Creating Maps based on Satellite imagery), we are talking about creating an area (possbly scaled down), with the basic layout and road structure of the real city, and then most building placement is random or done according to Artists opinion of what goes where.

So Manberry, perhaps this will help you see the real position we are in as far as looking at Armed Assault in tandem with this upcomming maps and any other upcomming maps based in or around the country of Iraq. I agree that perhaps someday there will be "Simulators" that can help in the training of soldiers, even unorganized divisions such as terrorists (that for some reason have enough money to buy a computer and the sim with enough power to render a city with several thousand buildings in view), through complex and realistic Artificial Intelligence that uses real military tactics and has the ability to "think" on its own like a true human(Waaay far away from this), and that perhaps someday simulators in the wrong hands may pose a threat to allied forces, and if you would like to be the spokesperson for this movement, then by all means, go right ahead, I support you one hundred percent, but please make sure that you are fighting against a valid potential issue, something that has all of the components of a year or so of training, that offers realistic human behavior and tactics, and that does indeed offer a true threat. Armed Assault is definetely not a valid threat to our forces in Iraq, nor is this mod, and it is for the reasons described above; ArmA holds absolutely no true potential for real training use (And this is true at least without real people, real trainined soldiers, with real tactics to fight against). So if you still feel strongly against the addition of Real-Location based maps in Armed Assault, and you persist in your ignorance to my replies and logic and reason, then perhaps you should carry this argument over to the General Discussion, where all who feel the same way you do can rant on blindly, but I hope that you think about what you are saying, and you truly think about the potential of terrorist training through only the addition of a few of these maps, look at both sides, and all of the variables, and perhaps then you shall come to a different conclusion...

Ps: News on the updates sounds great! Cant wait guys~

[rabbity 0]

Manberries..I'm A/D Army, and personally your thoughts are in the right place but poorly executed, I'm freaking excited whenever this mod comes out. Just for the fact that it will feel a bit familiar, or to the general public, the feel of having someone that's already there, then now implemented in a game. What do you think ARMA is going to teach a terrorist organization? How recoil feels? or how upset you can get when your trying to build a mission in arma to play with your buddies but you don't know how to put a respawn script in so you have to wait til everyone dies and press abort? lol. Big deal if it deals with war, it's armed assault. Part of a War game is to have dead things, either you kill things or things gets your guys killed whatever it may be. at the end of the day..it's still a game.

[ProPilot 0]

Well, looks like that argument is over

This is in no way meant to be for training. Its meant for enjoyment, plain and simple.

[lt.chris 0]

Looking forward to what you have in store lads

especially the hummers with armor plating we can finally have people on the gunners without worry of ending up with a round in the face

[MontyVCB 0]

based on real world terrain but are not the actual cities oh and is it such a stretch for them to use this program just as the few armies who are now using it? if a complete and advanced army finds usefulness in simulators than why cant terrorists? my suggestion was to base the maps off of real world places but not to recreate exact cities. These are notes to the creator, not the spoiled little children running around this forum. If you refuse to believe that terrorists use simulators for training then thats your own problem. I do agree there are other methods available for training purposes, which is why i agree it is sensible to create this mod. All i ever asked was to create fake cities modeled after those in real life. I have no interest in arguing with people who cannot see beyond their own enjoyment of ARMA. A final thought. These very ideas were expressed during the creation of all modern day war simulators. If gaming companies believe its a valid point then it is worth considering. I believe the modder can create a nice middle ground between exact iraq war and a completely made up war. I would encourage that you at least take a moment to consider my proposal.

VBS2 ships with a 'green zone' map and is pretty true life of downtown Baghdad. Infact, the maps found in VBS2 are more likely to be true to life than terrain found in any 3rd party mod. Also ArmA does not have any of the features that makes VBS2 stand out as a training program, are things like AAR and the Instuctor observer features which allows the instructor to change elements of the program at will. Add more enemies etc. ArmA has none of this and since the AI is pretty basic (ie find the enemy and shoot). It provides no real substance for your arguement. Infact it would be cheaper and easier for any would be terrorist in the middle east to pick up a gun and take pot shots at colalition troops to practise than going to extreme lengths to use a damn computer game. They might aswell go play CS.

[EricJ 724]

Agreed.  But the moderator in me says this topic is going way off track, and maybe you all should get back on it.  This is a discussion of a mod, not modern politics.  Find a politics forum, talk amongst yourselves on modern warfare and the politics involved.  I come here to look at new stuff, not to read some lame political debate.

[ShadowY 0]

Agreed.  But the moderator in me says this topic is going way off track, and maybe you all should get back on it.  This is a discussion of a mod, not modern politics.  Find a politics forum, talk amongst yourselves on modern warfare and the politics involved.  I come here to look at new stuff, not to read some lame political debate.

I agree...(*eric cartman voice) all kick manberries in tha nuts

[Curious 0]

*badly waits for updates*

[Chip360 0]

I love you IMWM TEAM!!!!

(Awaiting Updatadas! )

[ProPilot 0]

Hehe, We are just as eager as you guys are to get the update out there, we have been working non stop the past few days Hopfully everyone will like it

[opteryx 1562]

If anyone has experience with making custom roads and/or custom structures your help is greatly needed, especially regarding roads.

[Kerry 0]

based on real world terrain but are not the actual cities oh and is it such a stretch for them to use this program just as the few armies who are now using it? if a complete and advanced army finds usefulness in simulators than why cant terrorists? my suggestion was to base the maps off of real world places but not to recreate exact cities. These are notes to the creator, not the spoiled little children running around this forum. If you refuse to believe that terrorists use simulators for training then thats your own problem. I do agree there are other methods available for training purposes, which is why i agree it is sensible to create this mod. All i ever asked was to create fake cities modeled after those in real life. I have no interest in arguing with people who cannot see beyond their own enjoyment of ARMA. A final thought. These very ideas were expressed during the creation of all modern day war simulators. If gaming companies believe its a valid point then it is worth considering. I believe the modder can create a nice middle ground between exact iraq war and a completely made up war. I would encourage that you at least take a moment to consider my proposal.

VBS2 ships with a 'green zone' map and is pretty true life of downtown Baghdad. Infact, the maps found in VBS2 are more likely to be true to life than terrain found in any 3rd party mod. Also ArmA does not have any of the features that makes VBS2 stand out as a training program, are things like AAR and the Instuctor observer features which allows the instructor to change elements of the program at will. Add more enemies etc. ArmA has none of this and since the AI is pretty basic (ie find the enemy and shoot). It provides no real substance for your arguement. Infact it would be cheaper and easier for any would be terrorist in the middle east to pick up a gun and take pot shots at colalition troops to practise than going to extreme lengths to use a damn computer game. They might aswell go play CS.

Amen Para-trooper. Thats all I was saying.....is I dont think insurgents are going to spend 3,000+ dollars each on a god PC, rather then just taking a few weapons into some place and practicing for REAL..

Manberrys need to CHILL

[Guest]

Quote[/b] ]Amen Para-trooper. Thats all I was saying.....is I dont think insurgents are going to spend 3,000+ dollars each on a god PC, rather then just taking a few weapons into some place and practicing for REAL..

+1

go see videos on youtube ... gangs members, terrorists, everybody try going to the army (us army, french foreign legion ...), and with bush wars, can be trained to real combat, and be paid (so i dont think them spending $300 on a comp to play sims ...)

really like the world ...