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frederf

External Hellfire Racks

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I'm in the middle of a fun and rewarding exercise that's come up against a hurdle that 24 hours of forehead smashing hasn't been able to solve.

Before I begin describing hurdle, first I should some motivational context-slash-masturbatory exposition on what it is I want to accomplish and why.

I'm updating the Mapfact 1.08 AH-64 addon (for private use or whoever likes the edited one better) with what I consider better polish, factual corrections, and more real functionality in-game. In order to promote teamplay, increase target acquisition time, and emulate real life weapons engagement. To this end I've changed the configs around significantly for both the AH-64 and its weapons. I could enumerate all the changes but I'd rather down to the topic at hand.

Hellfires and TOWs (used on the AH-64) are switched from irLock status to laserLock status to prevent tab, fire, tab, fire, tab, fire gameplay and also because neither weapon are "Fire and forget" in real life. I have successfully converted both weapons to laserTarget tracking only. Pilot and gunner can still both see irTargets but the weapon needs a laser to lock onto. Thankfully the AH-64 has an onboard laser for just such a purpose. So what I want to happen is for the AH-64 to lase its own targets and then fire its Hellfire/TOWs at the resulting laserTarget. And it does this, no problem, easy peasy, even with an AI gunner.

A problem was that having the HellfireLauncher as a gunner weapon means that once selected, the gunner aiming point is designated straight ahead and will shift the laserDesignator in the same direction, making designation near impossible.

To change this behavior I had the bright idea of giving all laserTracking missiles to the pilot so the gunner could continue lasing during the entire flight. Again great success.

Now the issue I need help with, removing the Hellfire Weapon/Magazine from the gunner and giving it to the pilot has broken the visual effect where the missiles are on the rail and disappear one-by-one as they are fired. The racks show empty but the weapon performs as it should.

Solution Method 1: Update the Hellfire Ammo/Magazine/Launcher or AH-64 models / configs or whatever such that the visible missles function and leave the rail one-by-one when the pilot (not the gunner) has the HellfireLauncher and appropriate Magazine.

Any and all information on how externally visible removable weapons are coded would help greatly in enacting this solution.

Solution Method 2: Allow the aimpoint of the HellfireLauncher to track with the gun. This would have the effect of being able to switch between LaserDesignator, M230 Chaingun, and HellfireLauncher without the laser dot moving an inch. Arguably the direction of fire and the direction of aim would have to be divorced so the Hellfire wouldn't be launched sideways out of the tube. This way the weapon could stay with the gunner without conflict.

Solution Method 3: Allow the target for the Hellfire missile to be redefined a second or so after launch. This way the missile could be a gunner weapon where the laser is on at the intended target, some sort of "designate to fire at own laserdesignator" could be achieved via a script, and then switching to Hellfirelauncher would be OK since the Missile could be redirected after launch (which would be made without a lock since the laser has been slewed the wrong way along the HellfireLauncher boresight) to the laserTarget that is about to be created when the gunner selects laserDesignator again (which could be done viaa fired event handler, the direction of the laser is saved when switching weapons.)

P.S. Also I would like to know if it's possible to have many different weapons available for an air vehicle station/rail. Such that one could have a helicopter reconfigure its weapons (both functionally and visually) between several weapons during a mission.

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sounds quite interesting. Despite saving my life on several occasions, ive always despised the tab-clicking. I can see this system making a difference between High Tech Aircraft like AH64LB and Mi28N and Lower tech helicopters like the AH1s and Hinds.

And then once your done, give it to NonWonderDog for HUD reticules etc and then he can give it to mandoble for better missile characteristics and ......*drools.....

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The Hellfire is a fire and forget weapon (HELicopter Launched FIRE-and-forget), and one of the tactics used with it IRL is the so called "ripple fire", which basically comes down to fire, tab, fire, tab, etc and is used to engage multiple targets in quick succession.

Concerning TOWs: IIRC, they are not used on AH64s, but on AH1s.

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I think you should take a look at MandoMissile project.

It has full functionality, just no visual effects of missile dissapearing, but you could do that by importing missiles from proxy and setobjecttexture command to make them appear/dissapear any moment you like.

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there are at least 4 types of hellfire..  a laser guided version and a radar guided version.

Quote[/b] ]Hellfire II is the latest production version of the Laser Hellfire missile. Hellfire II and Longbow Hellfire missiles are complementary. The combination of Hellfire II's precision guidance and Longbow Hellfire's fire-and-forget capability will provide the battlefield commander flexibility across a wide range of mission scenarios, permitting fast battlefield response and high mobility not afforded by other anti-armor weapons.

Hellfire info

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The "Longbow" Hellfire is fire-and-forget (as it is supplemented by the Longbow FCR radar, which downloads information onto the Apaches, even if the others are not carrying an FCR). The other Hellfire missile types require a radar lock to remain active until the target (or the missile, really) is destroyed.

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Check out mando's laser designated missile scripts, should be far better for your needs

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please can somebody get the heli avionics to work as in real life - with the new tank sights we could be near to the fabled virtual battlefield simulation of yore.

anyway wouldn't it be great if we could turn this games arcade avionics into near LB2 status somehow.

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The other Hellfire missile types require a radar lock to remain active until the target (or the missile, really) is destroyed.

Don't you mean,

The other Hellfire missile types require a laser desginator lock to remain active until the target (or the missile, really) is destroyed

Holy poop. This forum software sucks and blows massively.

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The other Hellfire missile types require a radar lock to remain active until the target (or the missile, really) is destroyed.

Don't you mean,

The other Hellfire missile types require a laser desginator lock to remain active until the target (or the missile, really) is destroyed

Holy poop. This forum software sucks and blows massively.

Yeah, basically. smile_o.gif Just trying to say it in OFP/ArmA terms.

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Moste Hellfire missiles need a laser to guide it to where it have to hit. Like a dog for blind ppl. Loose the dog (laser) and the blind will end up in some random place.

In plain.

Moste Hellfire missiles require to desginate the target if the laser, for some reason, is turned off the missile looses its target and will not have a target any more.

Quotes from the LINK i posted.

Quote[/b] ]Laser HELLFIRE homes on a laser spot that can be projected from ground observers, other aircraft, or the launching aircraft itself.

Aaaand the long version of what i try to say..

Quote[/b] ]The AGM-114A Basic HELLFIRE tactical missile is the originally designed Hellfire missile, which is no longer purchased by the Army. A total of 31,616 were produced by both Martin Marietta and Rockwell International since 1982. AGM-114As in the inventory are released for live-fire training when they are replaced with AGM-114Cs.

The AGM-114B, although primarily designed for Navy use, can be fired from Army aircraft. This missile has an additional electronic arm/safety device required for shipboard use.

The AGM-114C missile has an improved semiactive laser seeker with an improved low visibility capability. The AGM-114C has a low smoke motor and a lower trajectory than the 114A. Army missiles should be marked with either the A or C designation just behind the seeker.

The AGM-114F Interim HELLFIRE missile features two warheads [adding a precursor warhead to defeat vehicles equipped with reactive armor] a seeker and an autopilot similar to the C-model missile. Final delivery of the Interim HELLFIRE missiles produced by Rockwell was completed in January 1994. Production for foreign military sales continued.

The AGM-114K HELLFIRE II missile features dual warheads for defeating reactive armor, electro-optical countermeasures hardening, semiactive laser seeker, and a programmable autopilot for trajectory shaping. The AGM-114K missile is capable of operating with either pulsed radar frequency or A-Code laser codes for those aircraft equipped with dual code capability. Hellfire II incorporates many improvements over the Interim Hellfire missile, including solving the laser obscurant/backscatter problem, the only shortcoming identified during Operation Desert Storm. Other improvements include electro-optical countermeasure hardening, improved target reacquisition capability, an advanced technology warhead system capable of defeating reactive armor configurations projected into the 21st century, reprogrammability to adapt to changing threats and mission requirements, and shipboard compatibility. The Initial Production Facilitation and Production Qualification Test contract was awarded to Martin Marietta in November 1992. The initial production contract was awarded in May 1993, and the second production contract was awarded in February 1994.

So .. if the AH64 have a donut on top you can fire the hellfire and consider the target dead. If theres no donut you need a lock.

pistols.gif

thumbs-up.gif

goodnight.gif

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First of all, for a laser system, the default laser system (IMO) sucks. If you try to turn on your laser, then switch to another weapon, the laser will use that weapon's current firing point - which in the case of rockets or missiles, means no movement. Given the limitations of turrets and weapons, this has proven to be a difficult problem to fix. The problem with giving weapons to the pilot is then you have no way of "grabbing" them (AFAIK). This means any proxies you try to have - real or faux - will either not show or be very difficult to make them show.

The most ready solution I can think of - although one I haven't implemented - is to script a faux laser designator weapon classed as a machine gun which fires a ultra-fast, low/no drag projectile with no damage, track it through the fired eventhandler, and create a laser target on the spot it hits. Then have a looping script that moves it if it's attached to a target so it stays "glued", and also detects when you fire the weapon again and/or lose sight of the target, which would delete the laser. I never got around to testing this method myself, but it's the best I can come up with. This gives the flexibility of a turret system, self designation with accuracy, and enables the pilot to retain control of all weapon systems if necessary, but still requires a gunner on board for effective designation.

Lastly, weapons rotation is also very much possible, but you have to chuck the game's default method with proxies for a different method.

Here's an old example of our AH-64A with action menu weapon load cycling.

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Before we journey back from Off-topic Land I'd like to clear up all the laser and Hellfire this and that.

@ryankaplan: With an AI pilot the procedure isn't terribly long, just longer and more "thinky" than the BIS default Hellfire. Basically you can use the "Next target" command (btw, look in your controls there are 2!!! I think one is "Command Next Target" and "Next Target") to have the gunner cycle through targets to point his laser at. Then you simply have to cycle through all the laser targets (often just the one) yourself and let loose.

I've used NWDog's hellfire rocket ballistics for the Hellfires. The Mapfact AH-64A optics work alright, and it does have a neat FLIR mode. The LOAL (high arching) mode never worked right with the Mapfact AH-64A anyway. I actually have the mando missile folder on my desktop right now and am trying to figure out how to use it for the high arch approach.

@Rattus: The Hellfire is not a F&F weapon, at least not the Hellfire A, the one I am trying to model. One of the main reasons I switched it over to laser track is so you had to keep the laser on it the whole flight. That meant one target at a time and you couldn't duck behind any hills in the meantime.

TOWs are used on AH-64s.

The second we start modeling the AH-64D with LB FCR, then yeah, fire and forget all the way.

@colligpip: I'm working on importing and customizing one of the BIS aircraft HUDs (like from the A-10, AV-8B, Su-34, KA-50) to work in the mapfact apache to improve the avionics. Eventually I'd like to find another system to use besides the default BIS "radar" scope which is truly lame.

@Franze: There's a bloody good reason I moved all the straight-firing weapons to the Pilot and left the Gunner with the chaingun and the laserDesignator, except for the Sidewinders. I don't care if the laserDesignator doesn't work during Sidewinder (or Stinger) launch. Those missiles don't need laserLock anyway. And well, the FFAR should belong to the pilot in any case.

You're missing the point though. The laser works fine. There's no reason to start making hokey workarounds for it. That example would work sorta but it doesn't have to. In fact just as it is I've been able to switch really fast and fire at laser target with gunner hellfires since it takes a few seconds for the target to go away. I think there's some time to live thing going on there.

I'm interested in your AH-64 with load cycling though. Do ya have a link?

OK NOW BACK TO THE TOPIC

I know you cannot have more than one proxyWeapon for an Air class, but one is all I need right now.

What I want to know is: how do I get an Air class Vehicle with a Gunner/Turret to show weaponProxy for a weapon owned by the Driver (Pilot)?

The proxyWeapon method worked perfectly fine when the gunner had the MAP_HellfireLauncher and magazine. The proxyWeapon method broke when I gave the MAP_HellfireLauncher to the pilot instead of the gunner.

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TOWs are used on AH-64s.

No, this is incorrect. TOWs were used on prototype YAH-64s, but were not (or rather, are not) used on the production variants AH-64A and upwards. This is a common myth. Theoretically, it is possible, but then it's also theoretically possible to put just about any other weapon on it, too. *BUT* - that should not matter in this case.

Also, "fire and forget" is a broad term, especially in the case of laser HF - it's fire and forget if you're the guy firing it, but not fire and forget if you're the guy lasing for it. smile_o.gif

Quote[/b] ]

@Franze: There's a bloody good reason I moved all the straight-firing weapons to the Pilot and left the Gunner with the chaingun and the laserDesignator, except for the Sidewinders. I don't care if the laserDesignator doesn't work during Sidewinder (or Stinger) launch. Those missiles don't need laserLock anyway. And well, the FFAR should belong to the pilot in any case.

Whoa, chill out. I'm not out to get you here, I'm only trying to help.

Now, if you want rockets only (and maybe something else like Stingers or similar pod weapons) to go to the pilot, that's no problem. The problem is that the game is a absolute pain in the butt when it comes to weapon assignments for the pilot and gunner. The primary turret (the gunner) is what registers the "weapons" command and "hasweapon" command, and any proxies on the unit are tied to the gunner. So if the turret doesn't have the weapon, then the proxies will not show on the aircraft, and any other means (using "hasweapon", "weapons", etc.) to make faux proxies will not work.

Quote[/b] ]

You're missing the point though. The laser works fine. There's no reason to start making hokey workarounds for it. That example would work sorta but it doesn't have to. In fact just as it is I've been able to switch really fast and fire at laser target with gunner hellfires since it takes a few seconds for the target to go away. I think there's some time to live thing going on there.

As the weapons on the aircraft start to pile up, it gets more difficult to switch back to the laser weapon in time to guide it toward the target. That's all I intended with the hokey workaround - again, only trying to help.

Quote[/b] ]

I'm interested in your AH-64 with load cycling though. Do ya have a link?

Sorry, I was trying to demonstrate weapon cycling possibilities. Our AH-64 is not ready for release and it's off topic here - but PM me if you'd like to know more.

Quote[/b] ]

What I want to know is: how do I get an Air class Vehicle with a Gunner/Turret to show weaponProxy for a weapon owned by the Driver (Pilot)?

The proxyWeapon method worked perfectly fine when the gunner had the MAP_HellfireLauncher and magazine. The proxyWeapon method broke when I gave the MAP_HellfireLauncher to the pilot instead of the gunner.

As already described, proxyweapons - like the weapons and hasweapon commands - are linked to the vehicle's primary turret. ProxyWeapons do not work if the vehicle's weapons bound to those proxies are not on the primary turret.

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Quote[/b] ]As already described, proxyweapons - like the weapons and hasweapon commands - are linked to the vehicle's primary turret. ProxyWeapons do not work if the vehicle's weapons bound to those proxies are not on the primary turret.

Ah, see this is the answer I was after. You could see the frustration in that it took a dozen replies and a clarification on the part of the OP to get this information. If it's just one of the long list of ArmA engine limitations, grr, but fine. I don't really see the point in giong all out, including weapon models on the base aircraft model and then animate--hide'ing them according to some script that gets all up-in-da-grille of what the AH-64 happens to be carrying and what's left not fired.

If I was going that far then I'd ditch the OFP AH-64 model in favor of a better one, do it right from the ground up with in-game reconfigurable weapons, non-reliance on proxies, A and D versions, use of CfgMaterials, normal mapping, specular mapping, HUD design that is placed on the eye of the crew.. the whole lot. But I'm sure others have already started such projects and I don't really have the time.

It is only now, at this late hour, do I see why you went for something off-kilter in reference to the laserDesignator. Ideally there should be some way of keeping the laser on target even when switching to straight firing weapons. One idea is to have a 3rd "invisible game logic" gunner that controls only the laser, then the locking weapons could be given back to the Gunner without any problems. Has anyone managed to do anything like that?

I am happier with the visual effect broken than tab/fire being in place. The less-capable weapon means vastly better gameplay.

P.S. Sorry about the TOW thing. Mapfact's AH-64 loadouts have gotten my sense of reality seriously skewed with 4x Mavericks, 6x Sidewinder, etc loadouts. When I saw someone saying TOWs aren't used by AH-64's then I thought to check.

I mean what would you think?

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Guest RKSL-Rock
Ah, see this is the answer I was after. You could see the frustration in that it took a dozen replies and a clarification on the part of the OP to get this information. If it's just one of the long list of ArmA engine limitations, grr, but fine. I don't really see the point in giong all out, including weapon models on the base aircraft model and then animate--hide'ing them according to some script that gets all up-in-da-grille of what the AH-64 happens to be carrying and what's left not fired.

I’ve got the same issue with the Tornado and Hawks.  And I’ve just got to say Thanks for bringing this up and confirming my problems.  I thought I was going mad for a while then.

On the topic of dynamic loadouts… I hate to say it but I think we’re going to have to revisit the old methods we used in OFP.  Hideanimation or Hiddenselctions or maybe a variant of ACES will be the only solution I’m afraid.

…in reference to the laserDesignator. Ideally there should be some way of keeping the laser on target even when switching to straight firing weapons. One idea is to have a 3rd "invisible game logic" gunner that controls only the laser, then the locking weapons could be given back to the Gunner without any problems. Has anyone managed to do anything like that?

I’ve a similar problem with the Tornado GR4 Laser pods and the Harrier ARBS.  So far im leaning to a dialog based system.  Its really just an idea at the moment but If we come up with something more I’ll let you know

P.S. Sorry about the TOW thing. Mapfact's AH-64 loadouts have gotten my sense of reality seriously skewed with 4x Mavericks, 6x Sidewinder, etc loadouts. When I saw someone saying TOWs aren't used by AH-64's then I thought to check.

I mean what would you think?

I think Mapfact's loadouts lean more toward Airwolf than reality smile_o.gif

The modern AH-64 maybe able to carry them but the FCS software just plain doesn’t support them anymore, if it ever did.  The TOW requirement was part of the Export Package but was officially deleted in 1998 but was never implemented on any US aircraft – at least according to Boeing’s “Apache News magazineâ€.  The USMC AH-1s retain the ability to use TOW but as far as I know - or can find out – but they don’t even have any in stock to use.  And the Hellfire has effectively replaced all helo launched anti tanks weapons on US aircraft since the decision to reduce missile stock piles in ‘97/98. And dont get me started on Mavericks!  rofl.gif

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Ah, see this is the answer I was after. You could see the frustration in that it took a dozen replies and a clarification on the part of the OP to get this information. If it's just one of the long list of ArmA engine limitations, grr, but fine. I don't really see the point in giong all out, including weapon models on the base aircraft model and then animate--hide'ing them according to some script that gets all up-in-da-grille of what the AH-64 happens to be carrying and what's left not fired.

You don't have to go all out, but if you want to mix missile types, then you can't use the ProxyWeapon system because it will only do one proxy for all missiles - that's only if you want to have a dynamic per hardpoint or per rail loading system. It's perfectly fine if you intend to hardwire your loadouts with only one missile type.

Quote[/b] ]

It is only now, at this late hour, do I see why you went for something off-kilter in reference to the laserDesignator. Ideally there should be some way of keeping the laser on target even when switching to straight firing weapons. One idea is to have a 3rd "invisible game logic" gunner that controls only the laser, then the locking weapons could be given back to the Gunner without any problems. Has anyone managed to do anything like that?

The problem with having a third turret - if you want full AI functionality - the third turret cannot be ordered to target a specific point by either the pilot or the gunner (unless you make the laser turret gunner under command of the pilot). The ideal solution would be for the laser designator to have a single point from which it fires regardless of what weapon the primary gunner has selected. But that has to be done by the development team, because I know of no way to do it via workarounds.

Quote[/b] ]

P.S. Sorry about the TOW thing. Mapfact's AH-64 loadouts have gotten my sense of reality seriously skewed with 4x Mavericks, 6x Sidewinder, etc loadouts. When I saw someone saying TOWs aren't used by AH-64's then I thought to check.

Mapfact's AH-64 is designed to be fun, not a exact representation of the real thing. Every now and then it's fun to throw reality out the window and have fun.

The prototype YAH-64s however were tested with TOW missiles, since AFAIK at the time HELLFIRE was not ready for operation. Here's a photo (note the distinctive T tail).

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@RockofSL: Fan of RKSL Studios' work. Best of luck and any aid I can provide in the future. I noticed your Hawk problem in another thread.

I am aware of the multi-loadout requiring setobjecture or hide-animation to work (hide-animation being preferred). In this case I simply wanted to get the proxy setup working for the single weapon.

Ideally I'd have a nice pretty GUI screen to click select your weapons when an aircraft is in a certain rearm box. Or even have to drive the rearming cart up to the plane, raise it, then attach the ordinance. Believe me, I have ideas.

I have a few ideas for how to control a LogicGunner via the Gunner seat that you could even have the "fire to turn on/off laser" still work. The LogicGunner would simply take fired events off the real gunner to know when to turn its laser on and off.

In all irony the one loadout I found completely ludicrous, the 6x AIM-9 sidewinder one, seem to actually be possible in real life.

@Franze: I consider doing anything other than the proxy weapon solution (which to get it working for Driver weapons would be a quick fix relatively) to be going "all out."

Quote[/b] ]The problem with having a third turret - if you want full AI functionality - the third turret cannot be ordered to target a specific point by either the pilot or the gunner (unless you make the laser turret gunner under command of the pilot). The ideal solution would be for the laser designator to have a single point from which it fires regardless of what weapon the primary gunner has selected. But that has to be done by the development team, because I know of no way to do it via workarounds.

Ah, not neccesarily. The GameLogic gunner could take it's target as a direct copy of the gunner's target, his logical AI-type target. The GameLogic gunner could be told to turn on and off via fired event handlers based on the flesh-n-blood gunner. The weapon memory points of the flesh-b-blood gunner could be totally different than the gamelogic gunner, and so on. In fact I think you can make a separate eyepoint for each weapon muzzle, meaning AH-64D time you could have some weapons look from the gunner TADS, the masthead, or either.

@All:

If I do get involved in making new AH-64s, I'm not sure how far I'd persue making the A model, it is very old technology and surprisingly different avionics-wise from the D. I realize that 25% of AH-64s are "Longbow" models at best so there should be room for both, despite all the extra work.

I do have a few questions that have been rattling about my brain recently:

1. The Hydra 70 rockets have ripple options, at least single fire and full auto. If there are N pods on an AH-64, do N rockets fire when in "single" mode or does it only put a fire pulse to one of the pods at a time? Also is it possible to "mix n match" rockets inside a single FFAR 19 round launcher or are they generally one type?

2. What kind of radar and sensors does the A model have? Should it be able to automatically recognize tanks such that the gunner can simply step through them with a button, or is it all visual acquisition through the IR/TV imager? Can it tell friendly from enemy? How about A2A radar?

3. How often is the SIDEARM missle used? AGM-122. It looks like the only wing stub weapons it can carry are AGM-122, AIM-9 (P, M, X?), Hellfire, FFAR, and fuel tanks. EDIT: Found out. AGM-122 is retired.

4. Can there be more than 1 HUD defined per aircraft? Can the HUD be only visible to the to the player? (Simulating helmet mounted) How big can they be? (Full FOV?)

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Ideally I'd have a nice pretty GUI screen to click select your weapons when an aircraft is in a certain rearm box. Or even have to drive the rearming cart up to the plane, raise it, then attach the ordinance. Believe me, I have ideas.

This is of course, very much possible. I think you should give it a go. wink_o.gif

Quote[/b] ]

Ah, not neccesarily. The GameLogic gunner could take it's target as a direct copy of the gunner's target, his logical AI-type target. The GameLogic gunner could be told to turn on and off via fired event handlers based on the flesh-n-blood gunner. The weapon memory points of the flesh-b-blood gunner could be totally different than the gamelogic gunner, and so on. In fact I think you can make a separate eyepoint for each weapon muzzle, meaning AH-64D time you could have some weapons look from the gunner TADS, the masthead, or either.

I hadn't thought of getting target data from the primary gunner, so that could very well work. It's certainly worth trying.

Quote[/b] ]

If I do get involved in making new AH-64s, I'm not sure how far I'd persue making the A model, it is very old technology and surprisingly different avionics-wise from the D. I realize that 25% of AH-64s are "Longbow" models at best so there should be room for both, despite all the extra work.

Actually, at this point, more than half of the AH-64s operating in the world are of the D standard.

Quote[/b] ]

1. The Hydra 70 rockets have ripple options, at least single fire and full auto. If there are N pods on an AH-64, do N rockets fire when in "single" mode or does it only put a fire pulse to one of the pods at a time? Also is it possible to "mix n match" rockets inside a single FFAR 19 round launcher or are they generally one type?

I believe the way it works is you select how many rockets you want to fire per salvo and fires from as many pods as necessary to fulfill that salvo. This is probably wrong, though. I believe it's also possible to mix warhead types in the M261 and M260 launchers but not possible to select what tube of the pod to fire.

Quote[/b] ]

2. What kind of radar and sensors does the A model have? Should it be able to automatically recognize tanks such that the gunner can simply step through them with a button, or is it all visual acquisition through the IR/TV imager? Can it tell friendly from enemy? How about A2A radar?

The AH-64A doesn't have any target acquisition radar; it relies purely on visual sensors - TADS. Identification of a target is up to the gunner looking through the optics, which are FLIR, DTV, and DVO.

Quote[/b] ]

3. How often is the SIDEARM missle used? AGM-122. It looks like the only wing stub weapons it can carry are AGM-122, AIM-9 (P, M, X?), Hellfire, FFAR, and fuel tanks. EDIT: Found out. AGM-122 is retired.

SIDEARM is not used. AIM-9 is not used. Both were tested, but neither were used.

Quote[/b] ]

4. Can there be more than 1 HUD defined per aircraft? Can the HUD be only visible to the to the player? (Simulating helmet mounted) How big can they be? (Full FOV?)

It should be possible to have more than one HUD, although I'm not sure about visibility. There is not limit to size AFAIK.

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By the time you code such a rearm system where you apply certain weapons to certain aircraft weapon hardpoints, you're about a day's work away from the full monty GUI with ease-of-use vision. I'm well aware it's possible, just saving that for the end work.

I'm full of smart ideas like how to transfer info the logicGunner. You could even help a fully AI-commanded helicopter engage a BMP2 using the whole convoluted system. The AI can do it, people can do it (and can be inserted as either pilot or gunner and have the chain still work).

==============

AI Pilot sees BMP2.

AI Pilot tells AI Gunner to target BMP2.

AI Gunner targets BMP2.

LogicGunner's Script sets LogicGunner's target to be the same BMP2. After a few seconds the script determines that the target should be lased for Hellfire release because of the vehicle type.

LogicGunner turns on laser, creating laserTarget.

AI Gunner (and Driver too?) is forced to change its target via script to the laserTarget and engages with Hellfires once locked. The LogicGunner will not change its target to match the Gunner's at this stage since it is programmed never to match if the Gunner is targeting a laserTarget.

LogicGunner sees its target is destroyed and turns off the laser.

Total time of engagement, 5-10 seconds. Process is ready to repeat. Contingencies not covered: aborting the engagement attempt in the middle of the procedure. The trick is to make sure the AI pilot will tell the gunner to engage a BMP2 when its Hellfires won't lock onto it directly and it will not attempt to shoot it with M230 30mm and instead wait for the laserTarget to appear.

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Quote[/b] ]Actually, at this point, more than half of the AH-64s operating in the world are of the D standard.

My mistake. I meant to say I thought about 25% were Longbow equipped. I'm sure the D standard is more widespread. Having a "D" without Longbow and a "D" with Longbow would be far easier to create than the old A model.

My idea to help out the driver is to give the pilot his own view turret on the nose (It's called the PVS in real life) so that he can look around as well. I don't know how ArmA would react to giving a pilot his own turret to look around in. Theoretically he should be able to look around at his will and keep the joystick for flight controls. Perhaps it would mean allowing him "freelook" in optics so the mouse+keyboard flyers could use their M+K for double duty.

I'm very much interested in recreating the A's non-radar as I think this would help put the difficulty, reward, and realism back into the pilot's seat. As a close air support aircraft it should be an infantry asset, not an infantry replacement.

I'm not sure if you can animate eyepoint model selections. It would be nice if the gunner could choose where to look through on the masthead equipped model. Another option is to rewrite the config on the fly in order to change the eyepoint. One of those two would have to work. If those both fail then all the gunner operations could be done through the masthead as it is the far more valuable of the two.

On the subject of HUDs, I've been considering how to best use them. My ideas are to place the pilot one right in front of his face in order to simulate the helmet mounted display. At first I thought simply make it very large and very close, but this wouldn't follow his vision and probably have a lot of linearity issues.

The next idea is to have it glued to the PVS gimble animation but this limits it only to times when he's in the PVS when he should have it at all times. This also wouldn't work if the PVS couldn't be gimble-animated due to some limitation in ArmA vehicles not allowing the driver to have his own turret.

The best and should-be-first-tried solution is to match the HUD to the driver's physical head. It would only really have to work for human players and on the client side of things. If it had to be made as a separate object then there'd be trouble feeding in the info about the aircraft (which would be thankfully local in MP) into the HUD. A clone could be glued just outside the PVS model to work when the driver is in optics view.

All I could figure out about Hydra 70s was that single and full auto (the whole 19 in ~1sec!wink_o.gif modes were possible. It most likely sends an impulse one at a time to the appropriate rails in order to shoot one rocket each.

One thing I would like to get incorporated into the rearm system is changing the flight characteristics based on payload. This would require the ability to config edit the unit on the fly, changing flight envelope data, fuel payload, max speed, etc. It's not as hard as it sounds really.

I didn't realize the AIM-9 was not used on the AH-64. I realize I've never seen an actual picture of one on one but every website I've read lists it as an option. One website I looked at stated that up to 18 Stingers could be loaded!! I guess that's 3x stinger mounts on the wingtip rails and all four under wing hardpoints. Whether that's true or not is sort of irrelevant. No one sane would ever do that to the whirlybird.

As far as I've ever seen the only "with Stinger" option is 2x AIM-92A's on each rail for a total of 4 Stingers. On the same topic, does the fire control still use the whole "tone quality" idea to get feedback from the weapon? I think it'd be Cool as Toast to have all the lock diamonds for the Stinger be invisible and simply have the lock be a tone of varying quality. I'm not seeing the way to do it just yet.

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I'm full of smart ideas like how to transfer info the logicGunner. You could even help a fully AI-commanded helicopter engage a BMP2 using the whole convoluted system. The AI can do it, people can do it (and can be inserted as either pilot or gunner and have the chain still work).

The problem with this whole process is I don't know if any command exists that gets the current acquired target of the aircraft. It doesn't mean it's not there, only that I haven't been able to find one.

Quote[/b] ]

My mistake. I meant to say I thought about 25% were Longbow equipped. I'm sure the D standard is more widespread. Having a "D" without Longbow and a "D" with Longbow would be far easier to create than the old A model.

The NR would of course be the most common model, relying entirely on visual sensors, so anything you do for the A in this regard would still work out for the NR.

Quote[/b] ]

My idea to help out the driver is to give the pilot his own view turret on the nose (It's called the PVS in real life) so that he can look around as well.

Sadly, pilots are not allowed their own turrets in ArmA. I found this out early on when I tried to implement PNVS for our AH-64.

Quote[/b] ]

I'm very much interested in recreating the A's non-radar as I think this would help put the difficulty, reward, and realism back into the pilot's seat. As a close air support aircraft it should be an infantry asset, not an infantry replacement.

I agree fully; "tab+fire" makes it more like a air assault vehicle when it's not.

Quote[/b] ]

I'm not sure if you can animate eyepoint model selections. It would be nice if the gunner could choose where to look through on the masthead equipped model.

This may be possible with camera scripting, but the game has no built in viewpoint cycling. It's one per position.

Quote[/b] ]

On the subject of HUDs, I've been considering how to best use them. My ideas are to place the pilot one right in front of his face in order to simulate the helmet mounted display. At first I thought simply make it very large and very close, but this wouldn't follow his vision and probably have a lot of linearity issues.

IHADSS should be bound to the pilot unit, not the aircraft itself. We had planned to simply put the symbology on pilot units so that the display would follow the crew's view in the aircraft and prevent the average soldier from having the advantage of it. If you want to do it for the aircraft itself, it's more problematic because again, I know of no scripting commands that will return the crew head movements.

Quote[/b] ]

All I could figure out about Hydra 70s was that single and full auto (the whole 19 in ~1sec! ) modes were possible. It most likely sends an impulse one at a time to the appropriate rails in order to shoot one rocket each.

I believe the firing modes are 1, 2, 4, 8, 12, 24, ALL for rocket pods.

Quote[/b] ]

One thing I would like to get incorporated into the rearm system is changing the flight characteristics based on payload. This would require the ability to config edit the unit on the fly, changing flight envelope data, fuel payload, max speed, etc. It's not as hard as it sounds really.

Flight characteristics for aerial vehicles is still model based, but I believe it is possible to alter the mass and balance of the aircraft on the fly. If not that, then it's possible to simulate it.

Quote[/b] ]

I didn't realize the AIM-9 was not used on the AH-64. I realize I've never seen an actual picture of one on one but every website I've read lists it as an option. One website I looked at stated that up to 18 Stingers could be loaded!! I guess that's 3x stinger mounts on the wingtip rails and all four under wing hardpoints. Whether that's true or not is sort of irrelevant. No one sane would ever do that to the whirlybird.

Back in the late 80s, the Army figured they wanted some aerial self defense for their new toys, and so decided to try out a few options. Sidewinder was one of them, as was the Stinger. In the end they opted for the Stinger, but operationally not even the Stinger was used. Also, the Stinger was only mounted to the wingtips as you noted, and the same was true for Sidewinder. They never tried mounting them on the #1-4 hardpoints.

Quote[/b] ]

On the same topic, does the fire control still use the whole "tone quality" idea to get feedback from the weapon? I think it'd be Cool as Toast â„¢ to have all the lock diamonds for the Stinger be invisible and simply have the lock be a tone of varying quality. I'm not seeing the way to do it just yet.

I believe the Stinger does use the tone-based lock, so having a sound is certainly possible; however, there is symbology on the IHADSS that displays the seeker searching for targets.

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I actually have the mando missile folder on my desktop right now and am trying to figure out how to use it for the high arch approach.

What effect are you looking for?

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think it is that one

Now the issue I need help with, removing the Hellfire Weapon/Magazine from the gunner and giving it to the pilot has broken the visual effect where the missiles are on the rail and disappear one-by-one as they are fired. The racks show empty but the weapon performs as it should.

P.S. Also I would like to know if it's possible to have many different weapons available for an air vehicle station/rail. Such that one could have a helicopter reconfigure its weapons (both functionally and visually) between several weapons during a mission.

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I actually have the mando missile folder on my desktop right now and am trying to figure out how to use it for the high arch approach.

What effect are you looking for?

Honestly I don't know at this point. The Mapfact AH-64s had "LOBL" and "LOAL" modes for the AGM-114, which I think they named backward. The Lock On After Launch mode (which they called "LOBL") I think is supposed to "arch" up before tracking onto the target.

I suppose if I try to reinstate/fix the effect I should do some research on what LOAL and LOBL modes actually do in an Apache.

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There are actually LOBL- where you target then fire, LOAL DIR/HI/LO and with each method having a different missile trajectory. LOAL DIR has the lowest flight profile but you still dont target anything before launch so you cant tell if the missile has a lock. LOAL HI sends the missile to it maximum height allowing you the launcher to clear a 1000ft object with you being no closer? than 1500m from object, but more liklely to have missile loose lock(shouldnt be anywhere near as bad with the newer K/L/M missiles). LOAL LO allows you to clear around about a 600m object or so and take a lower flight profile. And heres a kicker for you each missile variant ie A/C/F/K has its own flight profile and seeker head problems. As for Longbow HF's if its moving or sort range stationary then LOBL is used, where long range LOAL is used and the 114L's on board autopilot steers it to the location of target where seeker head acquires the target itself, Im not sure about this last bit to much conflicting info, but from what i can gather, is it flies to area and will check for FCR steering commands and if no new ones available it goes to last know target point.

Most A models are either upgraded to newer version or as they are replaced by newer missiles they are being used for live fire practice only. Will you also model 114M and 114M1 warheads? M being thermobaric warhead and M1 being Blast Fragmentation warhead?

As for the laser problem, well the AI are totally fucking nuts about the damn things! They dont need coding to attack it as they will stop attacking (90%+ of the time) anything and kill the laser. The problem i've had with them is they dont turn the damn thing off, so the silly barstards fly around the battlefield (when there is nothing left to kill) chasing the damn laser! I had a mission where one of the birds still had 6 HFs and another birds was flying around with his laser on and the first one started firing and chasing the laser!!! rofl.gif There was a modified TOW HMMWV with a script that makes the weapon track to where you are looking and i modified it to use with the TOWs on this apache (which works but looks shit) by tracking where my gun was pointed( thats where to laser points to), and was wondering if that would help with aiming the laser because the gunner's head still tracks the target and the gun/sights are slaved to the gunners head? Oh and I've had the the AI do this automatically on occasions no idea why/how but when i switched back into the gunners seat the laser was pointed at a T-72 i was told to attack, and 2 seconds later told to attack the laser target which tracked the tank on its own. I have a funny feeling it was a slight glitch with the AI gunners brain still kicking in and auto tracking the laser for me. Still fun to watch!

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