What's the best racing sim

[kavoven 4]

Though some people shift GRID into the arcade sector, I think that the game has all those aspects I mentioned. The damage system is great (I really like(!) crashing into tires), the graphics are sometimes close to real and even the AI has its moments.

It isn´t ? You´re not driving a comfortable setup for the road but a GT setup for the racetrack. The GT3 series "R16" has no 4WD, but 500 PS on it´s rear wheels.

Are you driving with a wheel or gamepad ?

Wheel, but each time I change the direction I get the feeling its too late. Steering seems really indirect.

Further I even enabled ESP system. But when you're on a long, straight part of the track and just turn the wheel a tiny bit you immediatly feel force feedback pushing into the other direction.

Nonsense, the damage model is very complex. Every component of the car can be damaged and it will directly influence the behaviour of the car.

Maybe you should turn realism on. I just had a nice experience when I lost my front spoiler and did a short flight into the air on the "Nordschleife" going uphill with the wind lifting up the car because of the missing spoiler. Those are the moments...

When you set your car with 300 kmh into a wall you'll lose some parts, but after the car looks like before. And losing the front spoiler was already possible in Formula 1 95 for Play Station...

[R8]There was an episode of Top Gear with it and the presenter found the real one great to drift in as well..

I know that the R8 is a great car but I suspect that it hardly drives like the one in the game.

As for the feeling of speed, how do you expect to get a feeling of speed on a computer? The cars have the same speed as they have in real life. The arcade games only achieve it because the speeds in them are unrealistic.

I didn't see any kind of motion blur effect. This might be because it was disabled on the computer, but motion blur is the only solution to get some kind of "wow you're really fast right now" feeling. And I can assure you that you have this kind of effect while driving at such a high speed.

The game does have a decent damage model. No worse than the other race sims. Visually it's bad but then again GRID's damage model looks great but it's hardly realistic - you can't even puncture a tyre.

Tires may be a bit solid, but when you're crashing into an opponent you see via a small screen that your tires are damaged. Doing that a few times and your tire will be broken.

The rest of the damage system IS realistic in my opinion.

[Maddmatt 1]

Though some people shift GRID into the arcade sector, I think that the game has all those aspects I mentioned. The damage system is great (I really like(!) crashing into tires), the graphics are sometimes close to real and even the AI has its moments.

But it goes into the arcade sector because the cars don't behave anything like the real thing.

IMO calling the graphics close to real is a joke. I know it's way ahead of Evo in graphics, but it still has that typical Codemasters cartoonish (over saturated) look.

Wheel, but each time I change the direction I get the feeling its too late. Steering seems really indirect.

Further I even enabled ESP system. But when you're on a long, straight part of the track and just turn the wheel a tiny bit you immediatly feel force feedback pushing into the other direction.

The fact that you race with ESP hints that you don't have much experience in racing sims.

Real race cars are rarely fitted with ESP.

Steering feeling indirect sounds like input lag.

When you set your car with 300 kmh into a wall you'll lose some parts, but after the car looks like before. And losing the front spoiler was already possible in Formula 1 95 for Play Station...

The old dated engine doesn't support damage that looks great visually. But you need to look past the visuals and at the function.

I know that the R8 is a great car but I suspect that it hardly drives like the one in the game.

No idea, never driven the real one. But it's hardly the main focus of the game.

With it's 4-wheel drive system it wont handle anything like the other cars.

But really, when you're comparing it to Grid the car physics in Evo is the last thing you should be criticising.

I didn't see any kind of motion blur effect. This might be because it was disabled on the computer, but motion blur is the only solution to get some kind of "wow you're really fast right now" feeling. And I can assure you that you have this kind of effect while driving at such a high speed.

This is a racing sim, not NFS. It's about realistic car physics, not fancy shaders.

If you've read race sim forums you'll know many race simmers are not fans of fake effects like blur.

Besides, this again comes down to the dated engine. Blur is far from a significant feature when you're looking for a realistic racing sim.

Tires may be a bit solid, but when you're crashing into an opponent you see via a small screen that your tires are damaged. Doing that a few times and your tire will be broken.

The rest of the damage system IS realistic in my opinion.

It's visually realistic, but not physically realistic. GTR Evo's one probably isn't either, but it's probably closer than Grid.

Grid may have some fancy graphical effects and nice shaders but the cars don't handle anything like the real thing. It does not touch GTR Evo or the other race sims when it comes to car physics.

Adding motion blur does not make a racing game any closer to a simulation if the physics are not even right.

Really, you're comparing an arcade game to a simulation - a low budget simulation on a dated engine.

Edited May 6, 2009 by Maddmatt

[sabre4809 0]

When you set your car with 300 kmh into a wall you'll lose some parts, but after the car looks like before. And losing the front spoiler was already possible in Formula 1 95 for Play Station...

Things like this indicate an Arcade gamer, try a race with lots of AI, full race weekend, practice, learn car setup, immersion into the Race weekend. That is where sim racing shines not, crashing, doing short races with auto qualifying, admiring the great graphics while you outbrake someone from 150 meters back into a hairpin and then hit the apex at 3 times the speed the car would be capable of(GRID).

GRID, NFS = BF2, COD1-200000.

GTR 2, GTR Evo, LFS, Netakr pro, rFactor = Ofp, ARMA1-2.

iRacing = VBS2 (It will when it gets developed more, right now it struggles in some areas)

About the 'spoiler' thing, well its actually a splitter and front wing on the F1 car, he was talking about the fact that it affects the cars handling, lost a huge rear wing off an Aston in GRID recently, no affect...at all.

On a side note, I played my flatmates GRID and since when do bridges and anything going across the track above, BARK at you. It sounds like a bad dog bark imatation.

F1 sims. Anyone got hope of CM producing a sim worthy of GP2, GP3, GP4 days. They seem to be making a hash of DR which they claimed to try and make a sim, so I think we might have to wait another 10 or so years for a proper F1 sim return.

[Balschoiw 0]

Though some people shift GRID into the arcade sector, I think that the game has all those aspects I mentioned. The damage system is great (I really like(!) crashing into tires), the graphics are sometimes close to real and even the AI has its moments.

It is an arcade racer. The vehicle handling and driving physics are very dumbed down to make it playable for arcade customers. Read some reviews. I played the demo and imo it is nowhere near a simulation. It´s the same as with Dirt where I didn´t even need the handbrake once and the driving physics where so dumbed down that it was so easy to drive as a bobbycar. Simulation is different. Drive Richard Burns Rally and see what a real simulated car looks like and drives like.

The damage system in Grid is visual only mostly. You can still win a race with a totally fuckedup car, don´t know where this should be realistic. There is no pitlane either, neither are there qualifying runs, nor car setups, something that is pretty essential for a sim. There may be no real damage visuals for GTR Evo but under the hood there are the damages and they will directly cause the car to behave different. This goes from the engine, chassis, aerodynamic damages, subsystems to suspension, wheels, etc. You even receive engine damage if you constantly shift to late. In a longer race this will blow up your engine. If you are a hotshot and always stress the brakes by braking to late the brakes will be damaged as well as the tires. If you have a race lasting 50 or 60 rounds on a course with 4 km´s you will not have any control over your car if you don´t drive reasonable or have a good pit-strategy. This is what makes a sim, not some supadupa visual effects of disintegrating car bodyworks that have no or only little effects on a non-existing aracde driving physics system.

The AI drivers in grid are a joke at best and are a longterm frustration.

I´m playing the GTR series for years now, still playing GT Legends and GTR EVO, siding with Richard Burns, Grand Prix Legends. Those are Sims and that´s why they provide longterm motivation. Once you win a 40 lap race against AI set to 100 percent and with all settings on realistic you know what you have done and you´ll just sit there and enjoy the winners lap. It takes really hard work and concentration to get there, along with a setup that has to be worked out and a good pitlane strategy. This is what makes a sim 100 times more interesting than an arcade racer.

I also play arcade racers if I don´t have time to start a fullscale sim-round. I like Burnout paradise, Flatout Full Carnage and some other programs on my comp, but those are really arcade racers that don´t try to make themselves look like halfhearted sims.

You shouldn´t mix up things that are really not to be mixed up.

I know that the R8 is a great car but I suspect that it hardly drives like the one in the game.

I have only driven the R8 on a regular road but imo the car is pretty well made in GTR Evo apart from the sound, that´s also weak in the real car from the inside but still not as weak as in GTR. It may look like a supersportscar from the design but it´s handling and acceleration is not that convincing imo. The R8 has a great handling when driving straight but is reacting very hectic over the front axis when shifting and slowing down. This is depicted very well in the game as well as the drifting that is like turning the car on the spot because of the 4WD.

And I can assure you that you have this kind of effect while driving at such a high speed.

I have driven alot of sportscars in real life already, from Lotus Superseven, all kind of Porsches, AMG Mercedes to oldschool racecars and I never had any motionblur in any of the cars. At speeds of 220-250 you get a narrowed corridor of view but no motionblur. Once you have driven at such speeds more often you get used to it and the fov doesn´t shrink that much anymore.

Long post, little essence: Grid is no racesim. Even the producers never claimed so.

[Landstalker 10]

At the point of this post GRID on ps3 is awsome on 42'' HD Tv .

but for the Near Future 2010 the game that will be on top when released will be

F1 (formula 1) by codemasters i can assure you if GRID is to a fine detail then F1 will not fail codemasters make absolute quality racing games GRID in parts is arcade style, but ive had some GT2 races online that where not arcadie, lap by lap constant close fighting to the finish which in my eyes makes GRID a perfect winner at time of this post.

I am an F1 fanatic and cant wait till they release F1 in 2010 well worth the wait !

[Pyronick 21]

At the point of this post GRID on ps3 is awsome on 42'' HD Tv .

but for the Near Future 2010 the game that will be on top when released will be

F1 (formula 1) by codemasters i can assure you if GRID is to a fine detail then F1 will not fail codemasters make absolute quality racing games GRID in parts is arcade style, but ive had some GT2 races online that where not arcadie, lap by lap constant close fighting to the finish which in my eyes makes GRID a perfect winner at time of this post.

I am an F1 fanatic and cant wait till they release F1 in 2010 well worth the wait !

I've had races through rFactor, Live for Speed and GTR Evolution that were very intense, took about 1-2 hours and were about a few hundreds of milliseconds per lap and precisely timed pitstops almost every week!

Maybe they aren't the graphically best looking games, but I guarantee you that it's very exciting every single time.

Way more fun than I ever had with GRID, Toca/DTM race driver, DIRT, etc.

If you have a G25, TrackIR and a powerful PC, I really recommend playing GTR Evolution, rFactor or Live for Speed. ;)

It's as close as you can get without having to pay for iRacing (which isn't that great imho) or without having your own go-kart/track monster.

[Landstalker 10]

my main focus will be for the new F1 game as the first thing im going to do is choose button or barricehllo and get in a brawn car and drive it straight into the barriers :p

then get into a mclaren and do it how it was meant to be done !

[Pyronick 21]

my main focus will be for the new F1 game as the first thing im going to do is choose button or barricehllo and get in a brawn car and drive it straight into the barriers :p

then get into a mclaren and do it how it was meant to be done !

Why?

I really hate the overhypedness of McLaren (during the Dennis-dynasty) and Hamilton, the only thing FOTA broadcasts these days are shots of Anthony (Lewis' father) instead of the actual racing...

When Alonso succeded Schumacher, I just hated him. But what they did to him at McLaren really disgusted me.

Anyway, without Alonso's telemetry Hamilton made way too much flaws in Monaco and all he did was use KERS at the exit of Lower Mirabeau, which is kind of weak. But it didn't get him anywhere at all so maybe I should stop whining.

Since Bahrein Hamilton has shown nothing which was champion-worthy.

McLaren used to be a very good team, but various people destroyed it and made it their cashcow.

What Ross Brawn has accomplished seems nothing more than normal to me.

He and Schumacher (and Jean Todt) made Scuderia Ferrari big and luckily he already made his move before Honda retreated.

In my opinion Barrichello and Button finally got what they deserved after being discarded by Ferrari and Renault.

But my favorite driver still is Sebastian Vettel.

Anyway, to stay on topic:

Grand Prix 4 still is a very good simulator imho. Not to mention Grand Prix Legends!

Edited May 27, 2009 by SgtH3nry3

[sparks50 0]

Im hearing some good things about the upcoming Forza 3, its supposed to have tire deformation, and more adjustable parts.

Also, with a Fanatec 911 wheel, the clutch and H-gearbox is supported.

Granted, it probably still wont be hardcore enough for most people in this thread, but it makes me consider buying a 360, and a Fanatec wheel(can be used with 360, pc and ps3) to replace my aging G25.

Anyone with similar thoughts on getting a console? PS3 and GT is probably a good candidate as well,

though its a bit more expensive and does not have a gaming library that appeals to me so much. I guess I'm more of a "semi" simracer, I tend to loose motivation sometimes.

Edited June 6, 2009 by sparks50

[sabre4809 0]

Forza is great. I used to be a big GT series fanboy, and shunted it but they really do do a good job with the car characteristics especially. Aslong as you have aids off though. Its still not a race sim, but a great driving game nonetheless.

[Maddmatt 1]

The upcoming GT5 and Forza games look awesome, I really wish they would come to PC though. I'm not buying a console :(

Well at least we have NFS: SHIFT coming, but I'm worried about how it will turn out.

[odjob 0]

I´m playing the GTR series for years now, still playing GT Legends and GTR EVO, siding with Richard Burns, Grand Prix Legends. Those are Sims and that´s why they provide longterm motivation. Once you win a 40 lap race against AI set to 100 percent and with all settings on realistic you know what you have done and you´ll just sit there and enjoy the winners lap. It takes really hard work and concentration to get there, along with a setup that has to be worked out and a good pitlane strategy. This is what makes a sim 100 times more interesting than an arcade racer.

I feel your pain listening to how arcade racing games are hailed as sims.

I have gone the long route aswell with Gp1-4, Gp-Legends, GTR series, rFactor etc. Learning to drive without any aids is crucial to get a "feel" for whats happening with the car, especially in longer races. There is nothing that beats the feeling of completing a 40min online race against a large mature field of players, realising that with 5 laps left your tires are overheating so your droping the laptimes a bit and taking care of the tires in the corners while still trying to keep the position and nursing the car to the finish. It doesnt really matter if i end up in the top 10 its the feeling of acomplishment that counts :)

I belive my first "racesim" was Indianapolis 500 on the Amiga in 1990, analoge steering with the mouse :cool:

[T.S.C.Plage 0]

I think the SimBin simulations like GTL, GTR2 and GTR Evo are by far the best. I personally played GTR2 and GTL for a long time with the focus on GTL because I prefere the "old" cars a little more.

Here's a link to my website about stuff for GTL and GTR2...click.

Btw, Volvo also has a free game like the "M3 Challenge" for download that's based on the SimBin engine.

[sparks50 0]

Yes, theres a thread about the Volvo game right in this section.

Too bad the Solberg Rally game got shelfed, the developers even said they were making it with the RBR simulator in mind, aiming to beat it in realism.. Oh well.

What would be your dream setting for a race sim? I think mine would be the 1980s World rally championship Group B era.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_B

Edited June 11, 2009 by sparks50

[Pyronick 21]

What would be your dream setting for a race sim? I think mine would be the 1980s World rally championship Group B era.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_B

A proper sim about AIACR Grandes Épreuves from the nineteenhundreds to the thirties.

The rise of Bugatti, Maserati, Corsa Alfa, Scuderia Ferrari and ultimately the German Silberpfeilen.

With perfect sound, a popular engine like gMotor or Lizard, specialized physics and authentical historical happenings.

I've never seen a race sim with a real campaign other than the DTM/Toca series.

In this campaign you should start with bad setups and early technology and climb all the way up to overhead camshaft, supercharged, alloy engined, aerodynamic race cars and the predecessor of modern day telemetry the Germans used since 1936.

[Mindwalker 0]

GTR: Evolution and Live for Speed are both awesome titles for your sim-fix.

But when I just need a quickfix of speed and adrenaline, I load up Race Driver GRID.

Still need to get me one of those wheels though. Steering with mouse/keyboard just doesn't cut it in the long run.

[wipman 1]

Hi, for me the best racing games that i've seen, are in this ones:

- Grand Prix Legends.

- Grand Prix Legends 2004 Demo.

- Nascar Racing 2003 By Papyrus.

Those are the best ones in their cathegory for me, with the NASCAR 2003 you can paint

your own cars and also mod the game, that's how i began to play with the Photoshop,

for paint my own cars back in the mid 90s for the NASCAR 1, an example of my N2003

paintjobs and addons:

- My Ride.

- Addon Shifters Pack.

Let's C ya

[kavoven 4]

I don't want to start a new topic.

Colin McRae Dirt 2 Demo is out... just played and enjoyed it very much. Great graphics, great soundtrack and amazing damage physics :)

Official mirrors are a weeeee bit slow at the moment, but I found this one:

http://www.4players.de/4players.php/download_info/Downloads/Download/53803/Colin_McRae_DiRT_2/Demo.html

(at least for European users)

[GoOB 0]

I have both Forza 3 and Dirt 2 for the XBOX 360 and I am loving them both, Forza 3 slightly more than Dirt 2 but both are in my opinion very qualified racing games. There are games that have more beleivable and engaging physics, like the aforementioned Simbin games and so on and so forth. But few games rival Forza (except maybe the GT series) in how much you can play it, alot of tracks and alot of cars.

[Maddmatt 1]

Need for Speed: Shift is a decent race sim. It's full of arcade elements that might put off some sim enthusiasts though.

Great car physics, big selection of cars. It's the first good NFS game in years. And it's the only one in the series where you could even begin to argue that it's a sim :)

It has it's downsides, there are no pit stops so it's pure sprint racing. The career is full of stupidly short 2/3 lap races (there is a mod for this though), the AI is very aggressive (a mod for this too), and it has no dedicated servers for PC.

Dirt 2 is getting good comments. It looks like it has good car handling but definitely not sim-quality physics. Still, looks convincing unlike the previous Codemasters racers.

[celery 8]

iRacing is the best racing simulator by any realism criteria imaginable. The best racing game is a different question however, and that depends on what you expect from it.

[Pauldarrington 9]

well i would try out the dirt 2 demo released recently, ive just downloaded and played it for about 20 mins and its highly impressive... the new DX11 really shines with the game

[Maddmatt 1]

iRacing is the best racing simulator by any realism criteria imaginable. The best racing game is a different question however, and that depends on what you expect from it.

Agreed. I tried iRacing on a free 30-day trial. Cars feel great to drive, but as a game I found it boring. It's not for everyone.

The new patch and free DLC for NFS: Shift has just been released, you can get it here:

http://needforspeed.com/web/nfs/downloads

All the hardcore PC race sims have one thing in common - dated graphics. And IMO they just feel boring to drive. No sense of speed, car behaviour on ISI engine games doesn't seem right when the tyres start to slde.

NFS: Shift manages to get a decent sense of speed without making the cars go unrealistically fast (Grid and other arcade racers do that).

I enjoyed GTR Evolution for a while but eventually got sick of the problems and how dated it seems.

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

Agreed. I tried iRacing on a free 30-day trial. Cars feel great to drive, but as a game I found it boring. It's not for everyone.

The new patch and free DLC for NFS: Shift has just been released, you can get it here:

http://needforspeed.com/web/nfs/downloads

All the hardcore PC race sims have one thing in common - dated graphics. And IMO they just feel boring to drive. No sense of speed, car behaviour on ISI engine games doesn't seem right when the tyres start to slde.

NFS: Shift manages to get a decent sense of speed without making the cars go unrealistically fast (Grid and other arcade racers do that).

I enjoyed GTR Evolution for a while but eventually got sick of the problems and how dated it seems.

If you want FUN crazy racing. TM United/Forever. I wasted more hours on that thing. It's not a sim by anymeans but if you want flat ass out crazy racing stuff (Rock and Roll Racing) then that's my vote.

[mr burns 131]

All the hardcore PC race sims have one thing in common - dated graphics. And IMO they just feel boring to drive. No sense of speed, car behaviour..

You never played Richard Burns Rally then.

Still the best game when it comes to offroad. Period.

Just tried the Dirt 2 demo and found it to be console crap all over again.

GFX settings set to highest (DX9) still gives an avg. 66FPS on my medicore system. Mandatory Xlive installation (unless you know how to overide it). Driving behaviour sucks major balls. Instant success possible. Xbox controller friendly, etc. - uninstalling as i type.