Helicopter's flight parameters

[RN Malboeuf 12]

Quote[/b] ]The speeds are determined by the envelope array

still can't get what is evelope array can you be more specific with more examples ?

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

Ah!  I think I see why you dont get a "wobble".  You've modelled a disc for the rotors, where as I have each blade modeled and named as part of the rotor selection.

[RN Malboeuf 12]

Quote[/b] ]You've modelled a disc for the rotors

just like in all old ofp models;)

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

Quote[/b] ]The speeds are determined by the envelope array

still can't get what is evelope array can you be more specific with more examples ?

OK its used to define the lift relative to speed. So if you set the max speed as 1000kph  The first value will the lift ratio at 0kph, the second 100kph, third, 200kph and so on.

If you were to set the max speed at 500kph the 1st value would be light at 0kph, 2nd value = 50kph and so on.

Changing the values = lift generated by the 'plane'*

Going back to the maxspeed=1000kph example:

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">envelope[]=

  {

 // speed relative to max. speed -> lift

 // 0.0 0.1 0.2 0.3 0.4 0.5 0.6 0.7 0.8 0.9 1.0 1.1 1.2 1.3 1.4  // rel. speed

    0.0,0.2,0.9,2.1,2.5,3.3,3.5,3.2,2.5,2.0,1.5,1.0,0.9,0.7,0.5 // lift

  };

You get 0.2 lift at 100kph

You get 0.9 lift at 200kph

etc

If you change the 2nd value to '5.0' your plane wil leap off the runway at 100kph. As long as you use a progressive curve for the values you should have a very smooth take off and landing.  

If you wanted a higher take off speed and stall figure you would reduce the first few values then start adding higher values aroudn the speed you want the plane to start lifting off.

Make more sense to you now?

* NOTE - I dont think envelope has much effect on helos but i havent tested properly yet.

Quote[/b] ]You've modelled a disc for the rotors

just like in all old ofp models;)

And unlike all the ARMA Helos...they all have modelled blades.

[flaber 0]

Ok, I've been made more test (this time, i've set up 2 independent blades in geometry lod, don't know before that arma "needs" independent blades), and i have reach 240 km/h with out vibrations in the tail. but again I can make a side loop in a few meters (like if it was a plane). Blades were pointing to the nose and tail respectively. so i turn them 90 degress, and ... no more lateral loopings, (adding weight to the blades).

I suppose that tail vibrations comes when cofg is no centered. and for stabilize the helicopter needs weight on the sides, far from the main structure, (ends of blades or something like that). but this is a supossition from my tests.

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

Ok, I've been made more test (this time, i've set up 2 independent blades in geometry lod, don't know before that arma "needs" independent blades), and i have reach 240 km/h with out vibrations in the tail. but again I can make a side loop in a few meters (like if it was a plane). Blades were pointing to the nose and tail respectively. so i turn them 90 degress, and ... no more lateral loopings, (adding weight to the blades).

I suppose that tail vibrations comes when cofg is no centered. and for stabilize the helicopter needs weight on the sides, far from the main structure, (ends of blades or something like that). but this is a supossition from my tests.

I take it you arent animating the blades?

[flaber 0]

unless you told me that the blades from the geometry lod, need to be renamed in a diferent way than componentxx, i think they are animated. but I'm not an expert , so it's probably that lot of things are not being doing the right way.

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

unless you told me that the blades from the geometry lod, need to be renamed in a diferent way than componentxx, i think they are animated. but I'm not an expert   , so it's probably that lot of things are not being doing the right way.

Yeah they do. They need to be named the same as the blade selection in the first res lod to work.

[ArMoGaDoN 0]

@RockofSL

Thank you for taking the time to post that information, in trade I can offer the information that it does indeed affect the lift of helicopters too - have been playing with it with the Airwolf config and made her a bit more responsive at low speeds to collective changes, the upper values are fine as-is.

It was a surprise to find that the maxSpeed value is used in these calculations as elsewhere in the forum it clearly states that it only affects AI speed limiting.

This information should be collated and set someplace where folks can find it - I think it is very bad that the only information here was by chance available from your good self, and that info itself from a PM from a dev - surely this information should be 'out there' anyway not requiring pestering the devs by PM??

Some definitive guide to these 'hidden/obscured' settings might be a good idea for the devs to write if they expect folks to start making content for their game, perhaps?

Is there any way to change the MASS value via the config file?

The way I read the above posts it seems set in stone, or at least in the model file.  Is there a way to change this without having the model file?  Is there a simple way to find the value in the compiled model in a hexeditor, or can it be changed in config in ANY way?

:( -> thanks for answer bfdy vvv

[RN Malboeuf 12]

Quote[/b] ]Is there any way to change the MASS value via the config file?

The way I read the above posts it seems set in stone, or at least in the model file. Is there a way to change this without having the model file? Is there a simple way to find the value in the compiled model in a hexeditor, or can it be changed in config in ANY way?

no. you have to edit the model.

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

WarWolf @ Sep. 20 2007,08:15)]@RockofSL

Thank you for taking the time to post that information, in trade I can offer the information that it does indeed affect the lift of helicopters too - have been playing with it with the Airwolf config and made her a bit more responsive at low speeds to collective changes, the upper values are fine as-is.

You are welcome. That’s good to know.  I’ve been looking for a way to make the transport helos more responsive.

WarWolf @ Sep. 20 2007,08:15)]It was a surprise to find that the maxSpeed value is used in these calculations as elsewhere in the forum it clearly states that it only affects AI speed limiting.

I’m as surprised as you. Maxspeed has always been a factor in OFP and ArmA planes but I honestly didn’t think it mattered in Helos apart from to the AI.

WarWolf @ Sep. 20 2007,08:15)]This information should be collated and set someplace where folks can find it - I think it is very bad that the only information here was by chance available from your good self, and that info itself from a PM from a dev - surely this information should be 'out there' anyway not requiring pestering the devs by PM??

Some definitive guide to these 'hidden/obscured' settings might be a good idea for the devs to write if they expect folks to start making content for their game, perhaps?

Well in their defence we do have the Biki - http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Main_Page

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

WarWolf @ Sep. 20 2007,08:15)]...I can offer the information that it does indeed affect the lift of helicopters too...

You are welcome. That’s good to know.  I’ve been looking for a way to make the transport helos more responsive.

WarWolf @ Sep. 20 2007,08:15)]It was a surprise to find that the maxSpeed value is used in these calculations as elsewhere in the forum it clearly states that it only affects AI speed limiting.

I’m as surprised as you. Maxspeed has always been a factor in OFP and ArmA planes but I honestly didn’t think it mattered in Helos apart from to the AI.

@ WarWolf

I’m sorry mate but after significant testing and digging around in all the other BIS aircraft

configs I’ve come to the conclusion that the envelope= command has no noticeable effect on helicopter class aircraft.  Nor is it mentioned in any of the existing BIS helicopter class aircraft.  I don’t know what changed your handling but I cant replicate it in any of my helicopters.

[Planck 1]

Actually in bin.pbo config it has:

envelope[] = {0,0.2,0.9,2.1,2.5,3.3,3.5,3.2,2.5,2,1.5,1,0.9,0.7,0.5};

for class Helicopter.

So, I presume as it is the base class for helicopters the same envelope would be used for all helicopters unless changed in a specific config.

Planck

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

Actually in bin.pbo config it has:

envelope[] = {0,0.2,0.9,2.1,2.5,3.3,3.5,3.2,2.5,2,1.5,1,0.9,0.7,0.5};

for class Helicopter.

So, I presume as it is the base class for helicopters the same envelope would be used for all helicopters unless changed in a specific config.

Planck

Ha i hadnt looked in bin.pbo. Just the stuff in the addons folder. But even so I really havent noticed any significant change in handling by adding in the envelope command.

[ArMoGaDoN 0]

try the standard airwolf and the mod i posted in it's thread for envelope and maxspeed....

you'll notice the difference enough when you try to turn round quickly for a second cannon run...

[Radic 0]

Sorry to jump in here with a bit of a tangent question.... - but just how different are the mechanics of ArmA flight models to the ones in OFP??? I ask because I would very much like to simply transplant OFP helo flight characteristics into ArmA as I personally find OFP perfect already in this respect whereas ArmA just has something not right.

I also have the same problem with vehicle control - using mouse to steer trucks, jeeps etc. in OFP is a dream but in ArmA it just isn't working right - very frustrating.

[RN Malboeuf 12]

Quote[/b] ]but just how different are the mechanics of ArmA flight models to the ones in OFP???

completely Vehicle controls are ruined in Arma

[Radic 0]

Bugger!

[xpetit 1]

Yes, the control are changed, but it allow you to can make looping or rolling. That was impossible in OFP.

But, it right that you need lot of work to update the chopper control.

Keep the faith.

[domox 0]

Do we know of a way to write a better flight model? Or are choppers forever doomed to have virtually no rudder authority etc...

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

Do we know of a way to write a better flight model? Or are choppers forever doomed to have virtually no rudder authority etc...

The flight characteristics of new Helo's cant be changed by editing the geo LoD and config as described above. But the Rudder issue is down to the game engine. Not much the addon makers can do about it I'm afraid.