UNA British Mod

[Jackal326 1181]

I think this would be a good point to lock the topic before any further action needs to be taken, as a pre-emptive measure to prevent any further hostilities.

[Messiah 2]

da12th's pretty much said everything that needs to be said on the matter, as has Jackal (Just as I posted this - bah)

[jerryhopper 286]

i like to see PROOF.

Give geometry signatures, or 3d wireframes or such?

i dont just accept words from someone....

do you all have ANY idea how many pm's i have on this subject?

Everybody says something, but nobody SHOWS me.

u know where to direct the proof.....

[da12thMonkey 1943]

im really starting to wonder.....

Are you all in the same IRC channel discussing this topic or so?

No, all I've done is download the addon to check the validity of initial accusations by Frandsen and others.

By the time I'd done this the initial matter was resolved here. However, I discovered that there were additional issues with regards to author's permissions, that needed to be addressed by members of UNA. This matter I left to be handled privately by other members of UKF, who were directly concerned in this second matter. I have since been so far as to inquire with Franze whether UKF members will be able to PM armatech in-spite of his post-restriction, in case UKF wish to persue the matter further (which by all accounts, we don't feel the need to do at this point).

My post here was designed to highlight this second matter for people who wish to download the addon in good conscience. Given that the initial matter was resolved, there may have been members such as Manzilla who downloaded the addon in good conscience before all issues were resolved.

To my knowledge, this matter hasn't been discussed beyond those parties involved: armatech, Frandsen (RavenDK), UKF and the moderators of this forum. Posts by other members of this forum reflect attitudes due to prior experience with armatech (wizzywig in OFP) and the UNA squad over authorship of scripts for addons and missions distrubuted by these parties. My knowledge of these prior incidents is only through having read other topics within these forums, not by discussing them personally with said members.

Coincidently, these issues largely concentrate around a part of the community mostly made up of squads and addonmakers based around the UK. As a result it logically congregates around certain individuals who are somewhat close-knit due to their common interest in representation of UK forces in OFP and ArmA.

[NoRailgunner 0]

...played a few minutes around. There's sth left to be done eg. scope, muzzle effects... arma.rpt is 3MB (started only with UNA)

some of the errors:

una_weap\models\una_l85a1.p3d:0 Face...very small normal

una_weap\models\una_l85a1.p3d:0 Face...very small normal

una_weap\models\una_l85a1.p3d:0 Face...very small normal

Face 475...invalid normal

Face 565...invalid normal

the most Errors you get with weapons

Error: una_weap\models\una_l85a1.p3d: Shadow polygon doesn't have 3 vertices - it has not been considered... and more of this

Error: una_weap\models\una_l96a1.p3d: Shadow polygon doesn't have 3 vertices - it has not been considered... and more of this

Error: una_weap\models\una_l85a1_acog.p3d: Shadow polygon doesn't have 3 vertices - it has not been considered... and more of this

Warning: una_sniper\gs_suit.p3d:0 Face...very small normal

Warning: una_sniper\gs_suit.p3d: Selection pouchak needs a section. The shadow volume may not work well.

Warning: una_sniper\gs_suit.p3d: Selection pelle needs a section. The shadow volume may not work well.

Warning: una_sniper\gs_suit.p3d: Selection kit needs a section. The shadow volume may not work well.

w:\c\Poseidon\lib\shots.cpp(45) : No shape...and more of this

Error: una_signs\football.p3d: Shadow polygon doesn't have 3 vertices - it has not been considered.

Strange convex component una_signs\models\s4flat.p3d in component02:geometryFire

w:\c\Poseidon\lib\shots.cpp(45) : No shape

Empty word in sentence '' 'xmit'

I would suggest to make an better final and give your betatester's more coffee. Too many errors imho no mission maker would touch this yet.

[Lor 0]

Really, da12thMonkey's image shows it all. The textures on those two guns look -exactly- the same, and the models only have minor differences.

There's not a lot else that needs to be said in this thread. Jerry Hopper deserves a great deal of respect from all of us for his efforts in the ArmA community, and I understand his position, but with Armatech banned for now (a ban which will clearly not be repealed), and evidence of plagiarism, both camps seem to have come to an impasse.

Jerry Hopper: Please don't let this influence the 'Meeting of the Mods' if that is still to take place.

[hoz 0]

Resolve any differences through PM you can still PM armatech.

Either move back on subject, or we'll lock the thread.

[jerryhopper 286]

Jerry Hopper: Please don't let this influence the 'Meeting of the Mods' if that is still to take place.

No mate i wont, but im only very suprised how people do public accusations, without completely checking the sources etc....

this all is actually happening with the most inconveinent timing ever... ( in relation to the ModMeeting )

About the similarity of the gun.... what can i say?

Dont all guns from the same type look alike?

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

i like to see PROOF.

Give geometry signatures, or 3d wireframes or such?

i dont just accept words from someone....

do you all have ANY idea how many pm's i have on this subject?

Everybody says something, but nobody SHOWS me.

u know where to direct the proof.....  

You can do that for yourself.  Would you believe us if we laid it all out for you?  Go get O2 and the OFP UKF weapons pack.  open them up and take a look.  While you are at it take a look at the DPM textures and then compare them to the other DPM reskins released recently.  They are remarkably similar.

There is no conspiracy here.  We're not on IRC together or TS.  This just isn’t the first time this has happened with Wizzywig.  He's done it several times and each time it’s ended with this sort of argument.  No matter what proof we all present he just calls us “noobs†and claims everyone is persecuting him.

Ask him what he got his boxes for and why his previous accounts are banned then go PM Shadow or any moderator.

I don’t like seeing anyone banned, I’ll admit I wont lose sleep in this case.  But if Wizzywig/ArmAtec had:

a) Asked permission to use and adapted other people's work

b) Responded more maturely what caught out

c) come clean and apologized

...then this wouldn’t have happened.

[da12thMonkey 1943]

jerry, I'm doing some images to compare the meshes of the stock at the moment, that i'll PM to you. I'll also include a list of other similarities with the UKF L96 package. In the meantime, I suggest you take Rock's advise and download our L96 pack yourself and compare the texture files and whatever else you like, so you can compare my findings.

You can get the original UKF L96 pack for OFP here:

http://www.pukf.net/forum/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=item8

Rest assured I'm not doing this out of spite or any ill will towards you. I respect your preference for clear comparison of the parts in question, I just don't think it requires quite this much debate.

[Commando84 0]

I feel poor for armatec even though he might answered rude to people. I think his clan is very serious cause they have very detailed clan practices, ive been to one. They had very high demands and stuff and im pretty busy offline too so i said no to joining the clan. And also armatec is nice fella to play coop with but dont tk him even accidentally or he freaks out I dont think he stole anyones work he just posted wrong pic. And also i think there cant be to big difference between AWP, AWM weapons made by different people with similar high skill level in addon / mod making

[manzilla 1]

So what's the final verdict? From what I can gather it seems Jerry may think it's possible that it wasn't ripped off. This is confusing.

Honestly, the reason I do not want to use an addon that was ripped off has nothing to do with people being angry at me. I don't really care. My reasoning is purely personal and has to do with the principal of the matter. If something is used with out permission and the original author is upset about that fact, I do not think it is fair for me to use the addon. I'd imagine that author does not want it being distributed and therefore if I use it, I'm essentially spitting in their face.(at least in my opinion.) Thus, out of respect, I will delete it.

[Lor 0]

Quote[/b] ] I dont think he stole anyones work he just posted wrong pic. And also i think there cant be to big difference between AWP, AWM weapons made by different people with similar high skill level in addon / mod making

While I disagree with you here,

Quote[/b] ]I feel poor for armatec even though he might answered rude to people. I think his clan is very serious cause they have very detailed clan practices, ive been to one. They had very high demands and stuff

I agree with you here, let's not let the actions of one member reflect upon an entire clan. (And, I think we're doing a good job of that so far).

I shall also take this opportunity to disclaim the fact that I really enjoyed the police porsches ArmaTec released, so much so that I made a video of them. This was many months ago, clearly.

[Lor 0]

So what's the final verdict? From what I can gather it seems Jerry may think it's possible that it wasn't ripped off. This is confusing.

Really, the evidence is 'piling up' as it were. Jerry is holding out for absolute proof - he's taking a 'Innocent until PROVEN guilty' approach, (which is cool, don't get me wrong).

So, if you want absolute proof that something a bit shady is going on, wait for a bit, while people examine the fine details.

[Messiah 2]

*Yawn*

I seriously expected the picture to be more than enough - its fairly plain and obvious to anyone with any sense that they're the same weapon, besides some obvious modifications.

If you want some more proof, thats fine - Armatech made it rather easy for me. Open up the pbo and have a gander in the L96 folder - besides the identical textures, he didn't even bother to delete these:

Jerry, if you don't believe me, go download you prefered PBO tool and look for yourself. It's not rocket science my friend.

[manzilla 1]

That's fine with me. No problem waiting. I wanted to take the innocent til proven guilty approach as well. After all, I did practice law briefly in the pre-hedge fund days. I just can't help it.

[Jack-UK 0]

lol this is rather hilarious.

If you want to try and rip off at least hide the evidence

Nice proof there Messiah

[manzilla 1]

*Yawn*

I seriously expected the picture to be more than enough - its fairly plain and obvious to anyone with any sense that they're the same weapon, besides some obvious modifications.

C'mon man... what's the point in throwing that at me. Listen, I spend 15-18hrs a day during the week managing a $500 million fund I built from the ground up. I just don't have time to achieve the "sense" you are talking about. There's no point in insulting someone. I have been more than civil

[Messiah 2]

I was refering to others, not you, no offence intended, although unfortunately I am still trying to reply to posts made a page or so ago up to yours, so It came across rather insultingly in your direction, which was not the intention.

[Skaven 0]

here goes some cents...

Personally I don't care if people use my work, normally people ask and I always say YES, some don't ask and I never bothered getting into problems because of it.

If it makes someone happy and if that someone shares it with others it's fine by me, this is just a game or a modern toy as some like to call it, since I'm not selling it doesn't bother me at all, as I always said, my work is free as soon as it's released for everybody to use, I never even bothered asking for credits, I don't make this my life and this is defenatly not my job so... it's for fun.

However I understand the addon makers who's work has somehow been used, and I understand that some people don't like their work to be used by others, specially without permission.

Now to the topic , I tried it and Messiah is 100% correct, indeed some of this weapons are from the UKF L96 pack and the Snipers Soldiers I have a feeling where he got them from too... . But that's not my business anyway.

[manzilla 1]

Fair enough. No offense taken then.

[jerryhopper 286]

thank you messiah.

this is exactly what i needed.

i have some projects with ArmaTeC, and do like everything clean and done by the rules.

Also, i have been in TS with him, trying to find out whats going on here....

i give you more info as i digg up.

[mattxr 9]

This fourms is falling apart, get Placebo back NOW!

Who gives a shit who made it, the fact is who ever thought it was there own sniper should of PMed the bloke and said "Hey.. blah blah.." Instead of posting and making loads more Hippys/Fanboys or what ever of UKF fuel the fire and get this poor guy banned for 2 months.. 2 months wtf its like how i got banned for a few days for condeming a known cheater with proof.

SO!

Lets all Drop the nonsense, talk about the addons which have been posted in a positive way and get a decient moderator on these fourms.

The End - It All Ends here! > .

[da12thMonkey 1943]

Hippys/Fanboys or what ever of UKF fuel the fire and get this poor guy banned for 2 months.. 2 months wtf its like how i got banned for a few days for condeming a known cheater with proof.

Excuse me, but he was banned because of his attitude in response to people prior to the involvement of UKF coming to light. Additionally, he had 4 warning levels, which if I am to understand the forum rules correctly, warrents harsher punishment than those with fewer warning levels (i.e yourself). However, this is not the place to discuss the moderator's reaction to this incident, take it up with them if you like, but it's no business of ours.

Rest assured that this matter has been settled by all interested parties satisfactorily, without the unfortunate aggression and name-calling displayed by by members of this forum who were not directly involved.

Hopefully, this ends the matter, and this thread finally gets locked after numerous calls for it to be so.

[psych 0]

banned for two months? poor?

I don't think so, he deserves worse IMO

In our clan we use others addons and integrate them into a mod folder with other mods that have been released, we appreciate the effort gone into making these addons as we know how much work it takes to make such fine work.

From a personal point I have seen this from UNA clan before in regards to UKF addons. Fair enuf use others addons, maybe even modify them for 'you' own needs but to release them as your own and then even argue about them not being ripped off, its people like this that ruin good gaming communities.

Keep up the good work UKF and don't let people like that put you off making further advancements in addon creation. your OFP addons were high quality, we at 22 Regiment are hoping ArmA will be even better for your releases.