SD Amunition

[Heatseeker 0]

This is an interesting feature that introduced a flaw.

Ballistic properties are now config'ed into the amunition and not the weapon, damage, velocity, acuracy and.. sound. Not the sound the player hears when fireing a weapon but the "sound" the a.i. detects.

Amunition is interchangeable wich means we can use SD ammunition on diferent rifles, a 5.56 SD magazine can be used on M4's, M16's, M249.. making them fully supressed weapons.

In this case you will have your SAW screaming while discharging SD amunition and the a.i. wont hear nor find you, just run around.

On the other hand you can use regular 5.56 ammo on the supressed M4 carbine, wich greatly improves its performance but while you hear "poof's" you will be detected and shot just as if you were using a rifle without a supressor.

The disadvantages of SD amunition are speed, stoping power, acuracy, etc. It becomes hard to take out moving targets.

The same is true for the AK's, i tested all combinations.

So basically you dont need a supressed rifle, just use the SD mags on any rifle you like, you can go on a night time sabotage mission with a SAW and a few 5.56 SD mags... lol?

The configuration is obviously flawed this way, there should be diferent "sound" detection values for diferent combinations (supressor+SD ammo, supressor+normal ammo, etc)

Realistic ideas on how this should be fixed is what i'd like to read .

[Guest Ti0n3r]

Hmm... Config the magazines so they detect what weapon they're loaded into?

It should be possible, right?

[Heatseeker 0]

Hmm, might not be enough.

What if you use regular ammo in a rifle equiped with a suppressor?

The rifle will be more silent and the muzzle flash wont give your position away?

I dont think SD ammo should turn every rifle into a suppressed rifle but for the weapons equiped with a suppressor there should be diferent values.

SD ammo plus suppressor (M4, AKSU), 0.75).

Regular ammo plus supressor (0.50).

Silenced weapons such as the handguns or mp5sd6 are a diferent matter...

[Jok 0]

put it into the bugtracker, it seems to be broken enough to count as a bug.

i mean saw filled with SD mags counting as silent...wtf!?

[raedor 8]

Yep, just report it. Good find...

[STRYKER555 0]

Aha! Im going to use this exploit against the AI in Evo... hahahaha!

Since they are locating me through sound with their sonar im going to temporarily turn the tables on them. I might lose accuracy and lethality but I dont mind not being found instantly.:D

[JAMF 0]

I was wondering why I got located with my M9 SD in the shrubs. I also wondered why, when choosing the M9 SD from the menu, it selected the standard M9 bullets and why they didn't sound different. My bad for not putting 2'n'2 together.

[-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0]

Aha! Im going to use this exploit against the AI in Evo... hahahaha!

Since they are locating me through sound with their sonar im going to temporarily turn the tables on them. I might lose accuracy and lethality but I dont mind not being found instantly.:D

yeah right. Silent weapons give little or no advantage against AI, in my experience.

A single suppressed shot gives your location away as if you were driving an ice cream truck around a trailer park.

good luck with your mission soldier!

[Dynamax 0]

using subsonic (SD) ammo in a nonsuppresed weapon, you get the loud muzzle report (bang) but the rounds are silent (no crack).

from a distance this works really well since the person being shot wont hear the crack and just the distant faint pop from the gun.

on the other hand if you use normal ammo in a suppresed weapon you now have the bullet crack but no muzzle report.

so its normal that if your getting shot at with subsonic ammo, you wont know your being shot at. you would only hear the distant pop and think that its someone shooting close by but not at you.

with a suppresed weapon and normal ammo, you would know when shots are fired at you, but you just wouldnt hear the report and not know from where the shots are being fired from.

i find that arma replicates this fairly well.

[Heatseeker 0]

-Ziggy- @ July 23 2007,19:45)]

Aha! Im going to use this exploit against the AI in Evo... hahahaha!

Since they are locating me through sound with their sonar im going to temporarily turn the tables on them. I might lose accuracy and lethality but I dont mind not being found instantly.:D

yeah right. Silent weapons give little or no advantage against AI, in my experience.

A single suppressed shot gives your location away as if you were driving an ice cream truck around a trailer park.

good luck with your mission soldier!

Dont laugh so hard yet, obviously i had to test this before starting the thread.. and it works.

300 meters away using a SAW plus SD mags i was invisible and picked tham all without being detected.

300 meters away using a M4SD plus normal mags i was shot in 1.5 seconds.

Thing is SD amunition is useless and you will feel like shooting blanks. Its so slow that you have to compensate way to much to hit a moving target and with a bit of lag... .

It also makes the rifles inacurate, its strange but an M16 shooting SD is zeroed way too high.

[seba1976 98]

I don't get this . If you where so kind to enlighten me...

What exactly are the physical differences IRL of an "SD Ammunition", compared to a standard one? I understand the concept of a supressor, attached to a pistol or an AR, but never heard of any "SD Ammunition", outside the environment of the game.

[Jok 0]

well seba...its easy as throwing stones.

if you throw a stone with LESS than about 343m/s its silent as you are used with a throwen stone. now throw it faster than that...it will give the "iam faster than subsonic"* bang/crack.

*sorry i lack a better therm in english

now; its the same with every other objects too, a airplane, a toaster, a bullet...no matter.

EDIT: to make clear point, you hear 2 bangs. when you are around the rifle you hear ONE big band. the further you get away IN FRONT of the rifle the bang(expanded powder in the brass) will slowly fade out and crack(sound when reaching supersonic) stays a bit longer.

at that point you load subsonic ammo wich get rid of supersonic bang and attach an suppressor wich will cool and slow the gases wich leave the barrel after the bullet and so reducing the noise heared by the "explosion"

well drawback is that you have a redicoulus slow bullet speed for a rifle, your maximum range is limited becouse of bulles speed and balistics to about 150-250m with rifles and 350-400 with specialised long barreled stuff wich for example uses russian PAB-X ammo.

if you look in a book about hand gun ammunition you find that most handgun ammunition is subsonic allready.

sice i heared that test rounds for measurement are often especially laborated the average 9mm round would also be SD by itself. MP5SDX uses standard 9mm with inherent suppressor as far as i know...

said different, if the book say 350m/s it can well be below 343m/s in reallity...

hope i could help...

[Col. Faulkner 0]

I don't get this . If you where so kind to enlighten me...

What exactly are the physical differences IRL of an "SD Ammunition", compared to a standard one?

"SD ammunition" IRL just implies that the bullets are subsonic.

Physical differences are usually that the propellant charge

is reduced and the bullets are lubricated and seated less

firmly than normal cartridges. Subsonic loads often use

heavier bullets than normal cartridges too. The US Navy

SEALs often claim to have invented it first, but in fact,

special subsonic ammunition is not a recent idea; it was

used already in the 19th century so gentlemen could shoot

rifles indoors for sport.

[ht-57 0]

Intresting,must give it a try.

You know I thought that this being more sim than arcade if you will, BI would have given you choices like HP/FMJ/SP

{hollowpoint/full metal jacket/soft point..etc..}

You could even go as far as diffrent grain loads, ok maybe thats alittle much. what does 'SD" stand for?

[ht-57 0]

Jok, question

Do you mean "noise supressor"

Or muzzle brake/ flash supressor

It was my understanding that a "muzzle brake" or compensator/supressor redirected the gases upward to compensate for recoil. in other words push the barrel down during recoil so you can get back on target quicker. At least thats how the muzzle brake works on my AR

That is the reason I had it installed, to aquire targets more quickly during timed events like the aqt.

that's another arma quirk,m16s or all ARs in game have supressors yet you still see the flash.

[Commando84 0]

sd = silenced i think

[NoRailgunner 0]

@ht-57

SD - Integrated "noise" suppressor (Schalldämpfer=SD)

Integral suppressor reduces the weapon's sound signature and muzzle flash.

I don't agree with Heatseeker that only the type of ammo (SD, non-SD) should define the properties of weapons.

It would be more arcade if you may only load SD-Ammo into weapons without SD to get an "silenced gun"

IRL there are two type of weapons e.g. MP5 and MP5SD. Its more at movies and tales that any SD fit's on every weapon/gun.

[ShrubMiK 0]

<ht-57> "You know I thought that this being more sim than arcade if you will, BI would have given you choices like HP/FMJ/SP

{hollowpoint/full metal jacket/soft point..etc..}"

I think hollowpoint and similar ammunition is prohibited in warfare under the Hague Convention?

I also wonder if putting SD ammunition into weapons not designed for it might cause problems - misfures and/or mechanical jams. Rapid fire, self-recockin weapons rely partially on the exhaust gases to make them work.

[Jok 0]

Quote[/b] ]ok, question

Do you mean "noise supressor"

Or muzzle brake/ flash supressor

It was my understanding that a "muzzle brake" or compensator/supressor  redirected the gases upward to compensate for recoil. in other words push the barrel down during recoil so you can get back on target quicker. At least thats how the muzzle brake works on my AR

That is the reason I had it installed, to aquire targets more quickly during timed events like the aqt.

that's another arma quirk,m16s or all ARs in game have supressors yet you still see the flash.

well the therms got a little washed out...

the COMPENSATOR is the thing wich redirect gases upwards(to compensate the upkick), mostly it also adds additional weigt in the front of the gun, verry few weapons have that and its mostly a "sport acessoaire(sp!?)" on handguns.

the FLASHHIDER is obviously there to spread out the gases and minimize the flash. that doesnt mean there is no flash! you cant reduce it to 100% with a flashhider. all assault rifles have such a device installed, it works more or less good, depends on layout of the hider.

the MUZZLEBREAK is the fat thing in front of tanks guns or AT guns or anti material rifles for example. small arms rarely have real muzzlebrakes, the russian bullpop 7,62*54 sniper gun has a "real" muzzlebrak becouse it needed one, normal guns dont have that.

all this devices are no "silencers" "sound supressors" or what you want to call em...

the silencer replaces every device in front of the barrel.

EDIT:

Quote[/b] ]I also wonder if putting SD ammunition into weapons not designed for it might cause problems - misfures and/or mechanical jams. Rapid fire, self-recockin weapons rely partially on the exhaust gases to make them work.

thats a good point and its verry true...many guns not especially designed for subsonic laboration of ammunition does really just work in single shot. like a mechanical BB gun.

you have to cook it after every shot or at least jams are verry verry common.

well, i think the lates generation of silenced weapons overcame that problem but it was a problem not soo long ago.

[echo1 0]

I don't get this . If you where so kind to enlighten me...

What exactly are the physical differences IRL of an "SD Ammunition", compared to a standard one? I understand the concept of a supressor, attached to a pistol or an AR, but never heard of any "SD Ammunition", outside the environment of the game.

There isnt actually subsonic ammunition for rifles, well, there are, but they dont generate enough pressure to operate the gas action, so you have to cock the gun between shots like a bolt-action rifle. There is some special ammunition you can get for 5.56mm rifles that overcomes this, but thats rarely used. The russians use some very elaborate ammunition design with their AS Val and VSS Vintorez rifles which allows them to fire full auto. Weapons like the M4 have a supressor but use regular ammunition. The point is not to make you invisible, but to throw off the enemy's ability to loacte you by the sound your gun makes.

Quote[/b] ]It would be more arcade if you may only load SD-Ammo into weapons without SD to get an "silenced gun"

I dont think it works like that, Im pretty sure you have to combine subsonic ammunition with a suppressor to get the best effect.

[Heatseeker 0]

I don't agree with Heatseeker that only the type of ammo (SD, non-SD) should define the properties of weapons.

It would be more arcade if you may only load SD-Ammo into weapons without SD to get an "silenced gun"

IRL there are two type of weapons e.g. MP5 and MP5SD. Its more at movies and tales that any SD fit's on every weapon/gun.

Im afraid you missed the whole point here m8 .

Thats how its working now, everything is coded in the magazine only. Suppressors and built in silencers are useless.

That cool looking M4 with the supressor is a useless piece of kit (compM2/M68), you can just load 5.56 stanag SD in the standard M4 to have a supressed carbine, you even have the advantage that the a.i. cant hear it but your teamates can (coop).

[=JoKeR= 0]

This thing may work with offline games,I have tried it online sometime ago with OFP,sometimes it works,AI is not able to spot you as soon as you shot,they waste more time to find you.

audiblefire=0;visibilefire=0;visiblefiretime=0;

I have tried another thing against MG snipers with their stupid PK,since the dispersion in JAM ammo is useless and I was really tired of their sniping skills used to shot down chopper I have added aiDispersionCoefX/Y parameter and removed the airlock.AI started to waste more ammo during shootouts and there were no long headshots with unscoped PK from long distance

[NoRailgunner 0]

sorry my fault... only fire SD weapon with SD ammo.

Now had test this in ArmA and yes BIS had made an mistake to code this only by mag regardless by weapon/gun.

[Sc@tterbrain 0]

I tried out what you described....weird. I also noticed that the aim/bullet drop was different between the ammunitions.

Anyone else experience this? Is that the way it should be?

[USSRsniper 0]

Lol, this reminds me of Boiling Point. Where you load weapon with SD ammo, and your weapon becomes silent....  

SD ammo does not make weapon silent bu its self. Its just same bullet which flies below the speed of sound.... i shouldn't call it SD ammunition, its subsonic ammunition....