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What would win?

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Heres the russians Picture of the battle -

berkut.jpg

For me, the US Military said the F-22 can take down 7 of the Su-47 without dying. So what do you think?

The F-22 is claimed by several sources to be the world’s most effective air-superiority fighter. Air Marshal Angus Houston, chief of the Australian Defence Force, and former head of the Royal (F-22) denies your ability to put a weapons system on it, eveAustralian Air Force, said in 2004 that the "F-22 will be the most outstanding fighter plane ever built."[24] US government secrecy makes comparisons with other aircraft difficult. Among its advantages are its sustained high speed and altitude capabilities, thrust vectoring, sensors, stealth features, advanced avionics, and ability to receive data from other U.S. systems.

Though exceptional maneuverability for a stealth aircraft seems unneeded, Lockheed Martin and USAF decided that the Raptor should prepare against all threats. Notably, in the past, similar assumptions about the unimportance of maneuverability for the F-4 Phantom II turned out to be incorrect; the more so for anti-aircraft systems like SA-21 'Growler', which may be capable of detecting stealth planes since there is information exchange with neighbor radars, which observes the appropriate zone via different angles and form of signal.

In March 2005, United States Air Force Chief of Staff General John P. Jumper, then the only person to have flown both the Eurofighter Typhoon and the Raptor, gave a verbal comparison on the two aircraft. He said that "the Eurofighter is both agile and sophisticated, but is still difficult to compare to the F-22 Raptor." "They are different kinds of airplanes to start with," the general said.

In early 2006, after an exercise involving just eight F-22s in Nevada in Nov. 2005, Lieutenant Colonel Jim Hecker, commander of the 27th Fighter Squadron (FS) at Langley AFB, Virginia, commented.

In June 2006 during Exercise Northern Edge (Alaska's largest joint military training exercise), the F-22A achieved a 144-to-zero kill-to-loss ratio against F-15s, F-16s and F/A-18s simulating MiG-29 'Fulcrums', Su-30 'Flankers', and other current front line Russian aircraft, which outnumbered the F-22A 4 to 1 at times.[15][27] The small F-22 force of 12 aircraft generated 49% of the total kills for the exercise, and operated with an unprecedented reliability rate of 97%.[23]

The F-22 is also extremely difficult to defeat during dogfighting.

Thanks to wiki smile_o.gif

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Guest Ti0n3r

Based on the little I know about both planes; Sukhoi yay.gif

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Considering no one here is an expert, and furthermore no one has the actual data for the flight performance of the two aircraft, it is going to be extremely difficult to have a fact-based and realistic argument.

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I would think the pilot would be the over riding factor as to the outcome of such a fight. i cant remember since the old yugoslavia war that many plane v plane fights have taken place and even those small skurmishes that have taken place havent really seen a fight where two top guns in two modern fighters have battled it out so i guess this question should be , in lockon modern air combat who would win lol.

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Considering ones an experimental prototype, and ones an actual fighter jet, I think the F-22 might just have a slight edge biggrin_o.gif

Quote[/b] ]For me, the US Military said the F-22 can take down 7 of the Su-47 without dying. So what do you think?

Where did you get that one?

Quote[/b] ]Thanks to wiki smile_o.gif

This thread wouldnt have been neccessary if you read the Wiki article on the Su-47 smile_o.gif

EDIT: This is Russia's answer to the F-22. It just hasnt been made yet :P

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God pictures like that just make me feel sorry for Russia. They have such an inferiority complex. Has any one let them know the cold war is over?

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Really what's the use of threads like this? The Berkut never saw frontline service, tbh neither has the F-22 really and it pbb never will. Who on earth does the USA intend to use their multi billion dollar baby against? Most agressor states have a airforce mainly composed of sheepherders and russia's mothball fleet. China? Well I dunno but I don't think the Raptor handles nuclear war that well and besides once it get's to that whats the use of anything anymore? North Korea? Their just suckers for attention. After a while they get a bit Ronery and start their nuclear program again, everybody get pissed, they get attention from the UN, they stop their nuclear program again. Iran? I don't think their airforce will standup to the current USAF fighters very well so no use for a fighter that cost more then most modern navy ships. India? Great airforce on paper but I wonder how well their training and Electronic Warfare systems are. And again I don't think thier a threat that can be overcome by the current USAF and USN. Somehow the F-22 seems like a old lady buying Murcilago to go to the cornershop once a week.

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Quote[/b] ]For me, the US Military said the F-22 can take down 7 of the Su-47 without dying. So what do you think?

Where did you get that one?

The military channel yay.gif

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Really what's the use of threads like this? The Berkut never saw frontline service, tbh neither has the F-22 really and it pbb never will. Who on earth does the USA intend to use their multi billion dollar baby against? Most agressor states have a airforce mainly composed of sheepherders and russia's mothball fleet. China? Well I dunno but I don't think the Raptor handles nuclear war that well and besides once it get's to that whats the use of anything anymore? North Korea? Their just suckers for attention. After a while they get a bit Ronery and start their nuclear program again, everybody get pissed, they get attention from the UN, they stop their nuclear program again. Iran? I don't think their airforce will standup to the current USAF fighters very well so no use for a fighter that cost more then most modern navy ships. India? Great airforce on paper but I wonder how well their training and Electronic Warfare systems are. And again I don't think thier a threat that can be overcome by the current USAF and USN. Somehow the F-22 seems like a old lady buying Murcilago to go to the cornershop once a week.

I think the point is that A) the Americans want the best of everything (who doesnt?) and B) they pumped millions (billions?) of dollars into this programme and spent many years developing it when there was a need for it (Cold War) now they dont want all that to go down the drain. Will they use it? Well, seems that the Americans use their gear more than most countries, to say the least.

Quote[/b] ]Woooo... Gotta love the "AK vs M16" thr3dz icon_rolleyes.gif

OICW would kick both of their asses. Its just that 1337. xmas_o.gif

EDIT: At least the AK and M16 have been used in combat... icon_rolleyes.gif

Quote[/b] ]The military channel yay.gif

Yeah. Trusting American television was your first mistake... icon_rolleyes.gif

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Quote[/b] ]For me, the US Military said the F-22 can take down 7 of the Su-47 without dying. So what do you think?

Where did you get that one?

The military channel yay.gif

I have to ask, Why would the US Military say the F-22 (A now operational Fighter) could "take down" 7 of the Su-47( A test airframe for advanced avionics and aerodynamic research of which there is 1)?

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Quote[/b] ]For me, the US Military said the F-22 can take down 7 of the Su-47 without dying. So what do you think?

Where did you get that one?

The military channel yay.gif

I have to ask, Why would the US Military say the F-22 (A now operational Fighter) could "take down" 7 of the Su-47( A test airframe for advanced avionics and aerodynamic research of which there is 1)?

I seriously doubt that they would. I would think that it was an error on the part of the TV programme. Perhaps they got Su-47 mixed up with Su-37?

Of course, an F-22 could destroy seven Su-47, much in the same way that a Spitfire could easily take seven Cessna 172s...

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Yeah. Trusting American television was your first mistake...  icon_rolleyes.gif

Trusting American television? what do you mean by that? i bet that the f-22 can take down 7 of them,Its the best fighter in the world by a longshot, and it will be for the next 15-20 years, so i think we will trust "american television".

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head to head ... each plane nearing it's opponent ...

then all of sudden ... incoming missiles warning kicks in with info '100s incoming missiles'...

both pilots bail out , return to base and ask WTF was that ...

chief tells them , well that were Czechs testing theirs new passive radar and AA smile_o.gif ...

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IMHO, a MiG-37B Ferret-E is still King of the air, even better than the F-19...  nener.gif

Edit: Runner's up is most definitely the PZL-230F Skorpion (aka the Micro-Sr-71 Blackbird rofl.gif ) !!!

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BUZZARD @ July 22 2007,21:19)]IMHO, a MiG-37B Ferret-E is still King of the air, even better than the F-19... nener.gif

Edit: Runner's up is most definitely the PZL-230F Skorpion (aka the Micro-Sr-71 Blackbird rofl.gif ) !!!

Wtf is a F-19...

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Wtf is a F-19...

Source ~ http://home.att.net/~jbaugher4/f19.html

A good brief explanation, but I am unsure of the accuracy.  I'm sure someone will tell me if its not.

""The F-19 fighter designation has been one of the recurring mysteries of the postwar era. There is an apparent "hole" in the fighter sequence between F-18 and F-20. Was F-19 never assigned to any fighter aircraft as the Air Force claims, or is it a cover for some supersecret "black" project that is yet to be revealed?

All throughout the late 1980s, it was sort of an open secret that the Air Force and the Lockheed "Skunk Works" were working on a project to develop a "stealth fighter" that would be invisible to radar. It was assumed by almost everyone that this project bore the designation F-19, since that designation had apparently been skipped when F-20 was assigned to a Northrop design. In July of 1986, the Testor Corporation of Rockford, Illinois released a $9.95 plastic kit model of what they called the "F-19 Stealth Fighter". Tom Clancy referred to a "F-19 Ghostrider" in his 1986 novel Red Storm Rising as part of a plot involving a future European war.

After years of gossip and rumors, on November 10, 1988, the existence of the Lockheed "stealth fighter" was finally officially revealed by the Defense Department. It turned out to be an attack aircraft rather than a fighter, since it apparently has no air-to-air capability. At the same time, it was also revealed that its designation was F-117. It seems that the F-117 designation has nothing to do with the old fighter sequence which ended at F-111, in spite of rumors that the Soviet fighters under test at Groom Lake conceal their real identity by using call-signs such as F-112, F-113, and so on. During its development and test phase, the Lockheed "stealth fighter" was known strictly under its project name of Senior Trend, and never carried any designation at all, certainly not a designation of F-19. Although the real origin of the F-117 designation is still not known with certainty, it seems to have been derived from the strict security restrictions that were in place at Groom Lake during the flight testing--pilots flying the Senior Trend test aircraft were not allowed to tell anyone what type of aircraft they were flying, and so whenever asked to fill out routine forms that requested identification of the aircraft type they flew they would fill in the meaningless number 117. When the first manual for the Senior Trend aircraft appeared, it had F-117 printed on its cover. Since it would cost too much to have the manual reprinted, the designation later became official.

So it seems that the Lockheed Senior Trend was never known as F-19. So what then WAS F-19? When asked about this, an Air Force spokesman claimed that the F-19 designation had never been assigned to any aircraft because of a fear that it might be confused with the Soviet MiG-19. This doesn't seem plausible, because the designations F-17, F-21, and F-23 had not been skipped.

Another rumor was that F-19 is really the designation of some other super-secret project, one that so black that it will not be revealed for many years. Maybe the mysterious Aurora that has been the subject of gossip, rumor, and speculation for the last decade is actually designated F-19. However, it is still not at all certain that any such aircraft as the "Aurora" actually exists.

It is now known that the designation "F-19A" was officially skipped at Northrop's request. Since the F-5G turbofan adaptation of the F-5F was basically a completely new design, the company wanted to have a new designation assigned to it. The next designation in line would be F-19, but Northrop preferred an even number because the Soviet competitors in the export fighter market of the early 1980s all used odd numbers, and Northrop wanted to stand out from these. So the official "confusion with MiG-19"-story isn't all that far from the truth, although it is certainly rather misleading. It is unlikely that anybody would ever confuse an "F-19A" with a MiG-19, especially because the latter was already obsolete. The F-20A designator was approved despite official recommendation by the USAF Standards Branch (at that time responsible for nomenclature assignments) to follow the regulations to the letter and use "F-19A" for the redesignated F-5G. Presumably this change would also make for better advertising copy--"The Northrop F-20: First of a new generation of fighters", for example. A similar sort of thing happened during World War 2 when the designation P-74 (and perhaps P-73 as well) had been deliberately skipped at the request of the Fisher Body Division of General Motors who wanted their new heavy escort fighter to carry the designation P-75 for advertising reasons.

Sources:

Lockheed F-117: The Black Jet, Robert F. Dorr, World Airpower Journal, Winter 1994.

Andreas Parsch on F-20A designation at http://www.designation-systems.net/usmilav....;"

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BUZZARD @ July 22 2007,21:19)]IMHO, a MiG-37B Ferret-E is still King of the air, even better than the F-19...  nener.gif

Edit: Runner's up is most definitely the PZL-230F Skorpion (aka the Micro-Sr-71 Blackbird rofl.gif ) !!!

Wtf is a F-19...

21-04051.jpg

F19stealthfighter_box_front.jpg

wink_o.gif

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Yeah. Trusting American television was your first mistake... icon_rolleyes.gif

Trusting American television? what do you mean by that? i bet that the f-22 can take down 7 of them,Its the best fighter in the world by a longshot, and it will be for the next 15-20 years, so i think we will trust "american television".

Well the Raptor can carry 8 missiles at most, great. 7 su 37(using it as its slightly more realistic than the 47) Can carry 98 Air to Air Missiles. And if the ground controller was smart he'd order them to take out the AWACS and tankers, so the F-22 is flying blind and with limits on range and dogfighting time...

In a straight up 1vs1 fight maybe, but getting 98 missiles towards you theres a chance 1 would hit, oh also the 7 30mm cannons firing at it.

Offcourse I'm talking out of my ass here as I havent flown either in a dogfight.

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Yeah. Trusting American television was your first mistake... icon_rolleyes.gif

Trusting American television? what do you mean by that?

Impying that a test plane is a real fighter jet? See my "Spitfire vs. Cessna" analogy on the previous page. No doubt that the Raptor is probably the best jet currently available, just the comparison between the two is pointless.

Quote[/b] ]Thread is over tounge2.gif.

notworthy.gif

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BUZZARD @ July 23 2007,11:42)]
BUZZARD @ July 22 2007,21:19)]IMHO, a MiG-37B Ferret-E is still King of the air, even better than the F-19...  nener.gif

Edit: Runner's up is most definitely the PZL-230F Skorpion (aka the Micro-Sr-71 Blackbird rofl.gif ) !!!

Wtf is a F-19...

wink_o.gif

that picture reminded me that i once had a die-cast toy of one of those when i was little.

just my suggestion for this thread.

my believe is that the quality of the vehicle is never what counts (and that applies to both that aircraft discussed here or any other piece of equipment) but rather its how and where it's used.

example:

the Flying Tiger squadron in WWII flew aircraft that was outclassed by many enemy aircraft. but this squadron managed to down many.

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