Less and less CTF players.

[Rhodite 3]

Could it be possible that as has been said CTF is an older concept that has had many new aspects, and CTf no longer appeals?

C&H, A&D, CTI and so on.

My thinking is CTF simply wont get the attention it used to have as there are so many other options and very few folks have not played CTF whereas other concepts are not quite so burned out.

At the end of the day people vote with there feet, they will play what they want.

[-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0]

ppl "play with there feet" cuz EVO is the only dam map players have to choose from. Period.

ppl dont have the choice to play CTFs, cuz the coop dominated crowd here forbids it.

what is there, three servers that dont play EVO?

I swear to God, if USI have to make the maps themselves, and administer the leage, we will do it, but I dont wanna hear anymore "Coop is better than CTF" crap, especially from our bias moderator staff.

[Abbe 0]

I belive our moderator has a point, but a sad one, and it's not exactely news, just look at the precense at the servers worldwide...

Sure people vote with their feet, that's why there is no CTF games and hardly any other types of gameplay except coop anymore and that's why some very nice and old loyal clans decided to quit playing BIS products. ArmA is very poorly suited for faster gametypes. Some things are very different compared to OFP...and I still don't understand why BIS tried to fix something that wasn't broken...?

/Abbe

[wamingo 1]

-Ziggy- @ June 24 2007,19:48)]I swear to God, if USI have to make the maps themselves, and administer the leage, we will do it, but I dont wanna hear anymore "Coop is better than CTF" crap, especially from our bias  moderator staff.

How is the mod biased? They're people too and allowed to have opinions of their own no?

No one (really) has said coop is better than ctf... People have said CTF simply may not work as well in arma.

ArmA's too slow, or whatever this guy meant:

ArmA is very poorly suited for faster gametypes. Some things are very different compared to OFP...and I still don't understand why BIS tried to fix something that wasn't broken...?

And I thought "combat simulation" was a hint.

It's of course totally subjective whether it was good thing, but to me, and I believe most simmer's will agree, ArmA took the right step on becoming a better simulation through its more real control model.

Though at this very moment the biggest server is actually a ctf. Perhaps you're whining about nothing?

[walker 0]

Hi all

If you think there is a future for CTF: Dudester, sbsmac, Celery, Luciano et al Prove It!

Make the MOD, put up some servers and make some maps if its is as popular as you say people will play it.

Stop trying to blame BIS and the community for your lack of gumption.

If there are no CTF maps you have only your selves to blame.

It is no use saying BIS should make ArmA into laser beam ballistics and unrealistic animations; BIS wont do that but there is nothing to stop you modding ArmA the CS crowd in half Life did. Most of your modding to suit CTF is just minor Config changes. I am sure it is well within your capabilities.

The only people who can possibly maintain CTF are those who are fans of CTF.

If not, it will remain a quiet little backwater, set for terminal decline.

If most server admins and their users hate CTF they have every right not to put it on their servers their servers belong to them not you.

If you as server admins like CTF you have every right to put it on your servers your servers belong to you.

If you cannot fill the servers then it tells you there is not the demand.

If when you put up servers everyone who logs on says they want to play Evolution or Berzerk or Coops then you know where the demand is.

I would just point out that most people are leaving the CTF forms in BF CS and Unreal because they are looking for more advanced and complex forms of game play that ArmA allows.

You say there is a Demand for CTF.

I say quit your whinging, get off your lazy lardy arses and Prove It!

Kind Regards walker

[kavoven 4]

I'm wondering if ArmA could be just the wrong game for CTF?

I guess that people don't live long enough for good CTF. If the player is already dead after one shot, the options you have are rather limited, regarding the fact that the big, red flag on your back looks brighter than the sun.

In WoW CTF is quite a popular game mode, because there are classes which last long enough to actually carry the flag... This is different in ArmA and so I think it's just the wrong game mode for a realistic game.

[wamingo 1]

I am willing to state that winning a CTF match against another organised team takes a lot more proper teamplay and "co-op" than any coop mission you can find.

Your definition of teamplay is completely different from what coop players promote.

Think of the difference like two different ways of playing Capture the Island with 2vs2:

1. Each player takes 1 town each, playing separatly to maximize chances of winning.

2. Both players fight within just a few feet of eachother, fighting the same enemy and/or covering eachother.

In CTI capturing 2 towns is better than 1, and because of travel time moving in different directions lets you cover more ground and is often much more effective.

PvP in general is almost entirely like #1 because people do better fighting alone. ArmA is not like the real world. PvP with respawn least of all. Most often it's all about points and stats. Staying alive doesn't often hold any meaning even if an imba kill:death ratio does look cool on the scoreboard.

However, the cooperation that coop players seek - though public servers might distort that vision, is generally about simulation of real squad tactics; I cover you, you cover me, we get through it staying alive. Thus our definitions of teamplay is obviously wildly different.

How often do you get the feeling you helped someone in PvP? "I saved your ass!" type of thing. Right, quite often. However, this is proof that you're not "cooperating". The situation is pure happenstance. You were not there covering your mates back. He just happened to be there.

In coop this is not happenstance. You were covering your mates back long before it happened, deliberately, purposefully. It was expected to happen and planned to be countered. Or, at least that's the idea.

[telejunky 0]

I'm wondering if ArmA could be just the wrong game for CTF?

I guess that people don't live long enough for good CTF. If the player is already dead after one shot, the options you have are rather limited, regarding the fact that the big, red flag on your back looks brighter than the sun.

In WoW CTF is quite a popular game mode, because there are classes which last long enough to actually carry the flag... This is different in ArmA and so I think it's just the wrong game mode for a realistic game.

I was playing a small 4vs4 ctf with my clanmates and i used hidden ways, watched the positions i would take and killed some guys and actually got 2 times the flag on one run. So the 'realistic' health model keeps your adrenalin always on top

[celery 8]

Hi all

If you think there is a future for CTF: Dudester, sbsmac, Celery, Luciano et al Prove It!

Hi walker

Why do you think that Dudester, sbsmac, me, Luciano et al need to Prove It to you? Your only function in this thread has been to write paragraph after paragraph to justify your personal elitism toward PvP apart from your mad half hour of Hexenkessel, so I hardly bother.

[Auss 208]

I would like to thank Celery for making some different CTF maps. We have been playing them on the OGN server and they make a real change from the normal CTF. I find them good for 15mins of fun before starting another round of more serious CTF games.

Keep making them matey well done and come visit us one day for a game

[-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0]

HEAR HEAR and all that

The simple difference in all is this playing against Artificial Intelligence versus real Intelligence.

I prefer the latter, and everyones entitled to their opinion.

I say that Player versus Player has more potential to make ArmA a bigger and better game than player versus AI. And I challenge ANYONE to show me wrong.

There are many new players to ArmA, and its is a very hard game to get used to. EVO is like a training mission.

Once they feel confident with thier skills, they will get bored with the AI and come looking for guys like me

I will gladly show them that I am not so easy to shoot as the AI

Long live ArmA and all of its game modes, but FFS, I can't wait for some CLEAR CUT (cough ) competition

[Dudester 0]

Hi all

If you think there is a future for CTF: Dudester, sbsmac, Celery, Luciano et al Prove It!

I bought this game because i thought it would play alot like OFP. If you want proof that people would play CTF with better animations, cast your mind back to ofp. I remember alot of CTF servers running then.

Looks like i will have to find a clan with about 20+ players if C&H is the way forwards. I mean its going to be a bit silly 6 v 6 on such huge C&H maps. I mean where would the tactics and skills be deployed with only 6 players on such a large area.

The only other problem been, i don't belive i have ever seen a 20+ v 20+ clan only game on this.

I may just have to settle for a mad half hour of Hexenkessel instead

 

[Rogueci5 0]

-Ziggy- @ June 25 2007,04:31)]I say that  Player versus Player has more potential to make ArmA a bigger and better game than player versus AI.  And I challenge ANYONE  to show me wrong.

And I would counter with, that it has the Potential to turn it into DOOM/CS/UReal/BF2 style play (re maps and thier makers)with all the HACKERS that come with it.

[twisted 127]

i regularly play ctf online on Australian servers (but not using the name twisted ironically enough). it's fun and i find the realistic animations and realistic ballistics etc all ADD to the experience.

IMO that's what ArmA is all about - a realistic (as possible of course) combat type experience even if it is running around capturing flags for points. it's fun.

However i feel CTF in ArmA needs a new twist. there's so much untapped potential here. a new mod that taps into the realism angle and adds a new level to CTF. it could be scenario based like rescue a hostage or black hawk down or something. the important thing is it takes what makes AmrA different (the whole realistic animation ballasics etc thing) and adds a CTF version or even a whole new way of playing that is compatible with it.

of course it takes initiative and creativity to come up with new stuff. most people don't have those two qualities in large quantities to invest in a game. but some rare people do and that's what'll see CTF revived.

[maddogx 13]

Could someone please explain what's wrong with the animations/ballistics/sounds or rather why they are responisble for the lack of CTF servers? This sounds to me like someone is desperately trying to blame BI for something they have absolutely no control over. All online servers you see in the list are controlled by the community and the server admins decide which maps should be played on them, not BI.

I tend to agree with Walker: if you want more CTF in ArmA, you're gonna have to take matters into your own hands. Create some high quality CTF maps, perhaps even a mod if you have to, host some CTF servers, promote the stuff and get people interested. As has been said, it's up to the server admins to decide what will be played. Set up some great CTF servers and it will be your decision.

[NeMeSiS 11]

Your only function in this thread has been to write paragraph after paragraph to justify your personal elitism toward PvP apart from your mad half hour of Hexenkessel, so I hardly bother.

Most people who dont like CTF dont like it because of the small cornered maps, which is just a waste of potential of ArmA. They usually shoot AI because

1. Humans often dont want to wait for 30 minutes before their base gets attacked

2. Its hard to get 100+ people to do what the mission maker wants them to do.

3. Its hard to get 100+ people in the first place, so the AI just fills up the empty space.

Nothing wrong with PvP COOP.

[Second 0]

And I thought "combat simulation" was a hint.

It's of course totally subjective whether it was good thing, but to me, and I believe most simmer's will agree, ArmA took the right step on becoming a better simulation through its more real control model.

There are some issues with ArmA animations, which can have negative affect on performing in fast situations (mostly issue is with sprint)... I'd guess that to "true" ctf-player those issues are severe.

couple such as this:

-if looking at ironsights and trying to sprint, sprint halts after few steps and animations continue as walking and looking thru ironsights. This has caused few "brown underwears" to me

-After hill (which slows character's speed to jog/walk) player needs to make charater to sprint again.

I can't think that these kind of things would be such bad as people are claiming (if it's this what they are after with broken animations... And aren't those fixable with new keybinds or something?). But people are critizining even smaller details to be gameruining.

OFP was free of these. It's animations were... hmm... stabile. You pressed some key and you could expect with 100% that character did what that key was told to do. But then again ArmA has taken some great steps forward in animations, such as fast hit-the-deck animation with AT-launchers (OFP's worst animation-problem).

[guerilla -MCY- 0]

i play alota evo and sometimes a coop even doh i'm a ofp grown ctf player, and i got the same weird anims there disturbing my game, sorry simulation. while i'm would normal have allrdy shoot 2-3 ai's back in ofp, i'm waiting now till the animation might be so friendly and bloody finish it off so i can start gaming, ups simlulate. than i fire up some 2001 laserbeams, ok ricochets are awsome, nothink to change here, but come on, it's a joke if you see what ArmA is capable of in other areas. so i could'nt shoot any bot's cause the anim thought, be right with ya, just a second, while i'm hearing how some freaky popcorn machine is firing around my head, back in ofp you could pretty good spot the firing position, but actually thinking where it meight come from, ends mostly with a headshot, while the sound was just good enought to confuse me.

All this SPS (Second Person Shooter) is killing my fun i used to have with ofp, no matter what i play from dm to coop.

PS: Team work has nothink to do with the gamemod, not even the game itselfs, its the team !!!

[maddogx 13]

@[CAVE]guerilla: Through all the spelling and grammatical errors and lack of punctuation, I'm finding it a bit hard to understand what you're trying to say, but I'll do my best.

guerilla @ June 25 2007,10:59)]i'm waiting now till the animation might be so friendly and bloody finish it off so i can start gaming, ups simlulate (...) so i could'nt shoot any bot's cause the anim thought, be right with ya

I'm guessing you're attempting to sprint around the whole time and then expect to shoot while still running. Remember this isn't Counterstrike mate. Anyway, if you run at normal speed it only takes the animation a fraction of a second to get back to standard aiming. Walking with your sights up is even better in CQB situations.

guerilla @ June 25 2007,10:59)]than i fire up some 2001 laserbeams

You must be using some Sci-Fi mod I'm not familiar with. Ballistics in ArmA are largely correct.

guerilla @ June 25 2007,10:59)]i'm hearing how some freaky popcorn machine is firing around my head

Perhaps you should move your computer out of the kitchen. Unless you are referring to the supersonic bullet crack.

guerilla @ June 25 2007,10:59)]All this SPS (Second Person Shooter) is killing my fun

That comment makes no sense. In a second person shooter, you would see yourself through the eyes of another character. This is clearly not the case.

[celery 8]

Could someone please explain what's wrong with the animations/ballistics/sounds or rather why they are responisble for the lack of CTF servers? This sounds to me like someone is desperately trying to blame BI for something they have absolutely no control over. All online servers you see in the list are controlled by the community and the server admins decide which maps should be played on them, not BI.

In my opinion the animations are really clumsy. Throwing a grenade from any other stance than standing up with a rifle in hand takes so long that your supposed victim has time to kill you or the whole situation passes. Movement transitions are horrible because you have to run those extra steps (finish the rest of the animation mind you) to do anything else. I was surprised about the unremarkable sounds when I got to play the game but I guess I'm used to it already.

I guess the ballistics are wrong because there is too much dispersion in the weapons and they are too weak, I mean if you shoot in the side of someone you'd think you will kill him but his iron arm stops the bullet and only his aim gets wobblier.

I tend to agree with Walker: if you want more CTF in ArmA, you're gonna have to take matters into your own hands. Create some high quality CTF maps, perhaps even a mod if you have to, host some CTF servers, promote the stuff and get people interested. As has been said, it's up to the server admins to decide what will be played. Set up some great CTF servers and it will be your decision.

Many of us already are server admins, but our servers aren't really enough and it takes 15-30 minutes to get a decent population to even start playing CTF. It's not that easy to start a new game you know.

I would like to thank Celery for making some different CTF maps. We have been playing them on the OGN server and they make a real change from the normal CTF. I find them good for 15mins of fun before starting another round of more serious CTF games.

Keep making them matey well done and come visit us one day for a game

That's funny, I have never made a CTF map alone in Armed Assault, except for the Hexenkessel script system that is used in 90% of all CTF maps out there.

[4 IN 1 0]

the game is being made on what the developers want them to be, if they want a run&gun you got a run&gun, if they want a slow gaming with realistic features thats what you got, its up to players to either adopt the new style of gameplay and utilize the system to gain advantage, or simply stop playing altogether, its not something that by clamming this and that the game would change towards your "ideal" way of playing

[Tommo 0]

The main point us CTF fans are trying to make in this thread is that we were expecting ArmA to be the same enjoyable style of gameplay as OFP, with the advantage of not waiting in the lobby for a game to finish along with improved graphics and physics. CTF in OFP is completely different to playing CS, I'm not sure how anyone can even find the slightest relation between CTF in OFP and playing CS, their two very different games. The whole reason we enjoy CTF in OFP is because of this unique style, we just weren't expecting ArmA to be this slow and clunky game that takes an unbelievable amount of time to perform the simplest of tasks (often its like the soldier your playing as is off on vacation, not in a war zone). Perhaps it'll change with future updates, perhaps not, either way I'll be here waiting for a chance to enjoy CTF in this game.

[molen871 0]

The CTF concept is very good but it needs some adjustments.

When Armed Assault was released, I was a huge fan of CTF missions but the last months, it's becoming very boring and I quit, why? Its to predictable because everybody is using the same weapon (G36) with scope and waits until "a unlucky guy" walks into the trap and with a zoom scope of 1 to 100, YOU CANT MISS.

This makes it too easy and its very boring. For example, there are people in the Hexenkessel map, who don't attack at all but "lean around a corner" for 30 minutes at the same location!!!!

Why not playing CTF missions with only the m16 and AK74 without aiming scopes. This makes it much harder and you get more fun because then there will be real close combat.

To make it more interesting you can also place some weapon crates with other weapons in the centre of the map, so it become a objective to capture those regions and create an advantage for one side.

Just think about it

[guerilla -MCY- 0]

@maddogX

First off all thx for the info on my grammatical errors, you can keep them, i'm happy speaking 5 languages, prolly not perfect enought for you, but you seemed to understand it, even doh you didnt at all.

So this is not CS, thx again, never played it, but i allmost thought so...

i know that sprinting will exhaust me, i didnt even came to the part where the anim finaly stops while my crosshair makes this huge jump to tell me that i can't run 30m without being affected by it or why there's allwys a wind blowing from the left and i have to aim left of the targets. And some sprints are needed on a 400km/2 island, don't you think ?

As for laserbeams with enemies returning me their popcorn sound, (and i tried thinkgs like modern warfare and FDF Sounds) i know that it comes close to how it should sound on the field, but while it might be real for VBS2, where most of you guys belong if not the army right away, its just unspectacular and killing my, i never talked about your, gamefun.

Why are you trying to convince me how i should feel about it ? Read the thread title and come again...

[maddogx 13]

guerilla @ June 25 2007,17:36)]Why are you trying to convince me how i should feel about it ? Read the thread title and come again...

I'm not trying to convince you of anything. This is supposed to be a discussion, so I was taking you up on the comments you made.

If you want to complain about ArmA without people contradicting you, you should use this thread. Otherwise you'll find other people like myself questioning the points you are trying to make. That's what a forum is for after all.

As for the rest of your reply:

guerilla @ June 25 2007,17:36)]And some sprints are needed on a 400km/2 island, don't you think ?

I thought we're talking about CTF here? What has the size of the island got to do with that? Most, if not all CTF maps are limited to smaller areas and close quarters battles. Of course, running is always necessary, but even then it's not hard to be a little careful, stay behind cover, and go a little slower if you're expecting enemy contact.

guerilla @ June 25 2007,17:36)]As for laserbeams with enemies returning me their popcorn sound, (and i tried thinkgs like modern warfare and FDF Sounds) i know that it comes close to how it should sound on the field, but while it might be real for VBS2, where most of you guys belong if not the army right away, its just unspectacular and killing my, i never talked about your, gamefun.

I think you're the first person here wanting a feature of ArmA to be removed, or reserved for VBS2. Just like VBS2, ArmA is supposed to be realistic. Bullet cracks are realistic. So they were put in. End of story. If you want them out, you can always mod your sounds.