Why the fascination with Evolution?

[BigRed 2]

Really the only thing that can be done is for the players that own public server and are against any style of map is to remove them from there servers a together. Maybe we should start a thread with server IPs and Names of COOP free servers or in this case EVO free servers.

In regards to the comment about PvP having no team work my team hasn't won 7 different championships in OFP and are 11 - 0 in ECL for ArmA because we are a bunch of Rambos so get a clue!

[Gunney 0]

It was more like calling in a distant group for backup and then flanking us. Did that happen in Ofp w/o any scripts? I wasn't heavily involved in multiplayer back then.

[m1013828 0]

the Beer drinking assassins server is the best, ive enjoyed a few good weekends with them..... Ive only played evolution once and hated it, but theres enough other servers out there to have a good time.. (only 2-3 if you live in NZ like me..... our internet has a ping similar to farting and the guy over there smelling it)

[deevius 0]

I don't like Evolution either. There's also a big lack of good servers... I can only ever see like 2 or 3 servers worth playing on..

more Capture & Hold i say, those are awesome

[cain2001 0]

Evolution, highest score wins? Great teamwork!

I think people want the an easy gameplay. Why play DM and C&H/CTFs when you get your ass wooped? Why bother with hours of practise to be up to the human player standard in OFP when you can go and shoot stupid Ais that are lagged up. ArmA is a good game but its gone really soft.

ArmA should be hard, hard, hard and almost impossible to play because thats what it its in real life. And when you stay alive you get happy and really enjoy the game. Try playing a CTF and come up behind 3 enemy human players and kill em, that rush you get is just worth getting killed 10 times!

[dmitri 0]

It's sad watching new ArmA players become addicted to Evo without ever trying "real" coops or drawn out CTF\pvp matches.

Coop with respawn? Sacrilege..

[Kwato 0]

I think BIS did a really big mistake when they decided not to include a proper observer script in the game. It is one of the reasons why a large part of the playerbase don't like no respawn.

Oh and I agree that this evolution bullshit is killing the game. Some of you guys might not see it, but it can't be good to have a mission dominate so much the online play. I wonder why mission makers still bother making new maps really.

People who like CTF or DM are not happy, those who like good old small scale coops can't find a server to play on.

I played that somato mission demo tons, I thought the full game would be like that, but now when I launch the in game browser and only see evolution and a server or two with berzerk, I usually just close the game and go play something else, and I'd bet I am not the only one.

[Daniel 0]

Quote[/b] ]Coop with respawn? Sacrilege..

Ha, roger that.

[Messiah 2]

I like evo in the same way that I like CS:S - They both offer me a few mindless hours of killing things and gaining rank/score/money without having to plan and prepare and to gather people on a server to effectivly carry out the mission.

It's my lazy afternoon of boredom mission, where I can tolerate those who choose to lone wolf, and those who play like its BF2/CSS

I take neither seriously, nor do I take them as the perfect MP experience - I'd be naive to think that evo hasn't catered for those more used to BF and CS, rather than those of us who don't mind being killed and saying 'Mission over'.

For my serious games I play with my squad, because then I can be assured that I'll have a full server of like minded players, who don't annoy me over VOIP and dick around - Its a lot easier to co-ordinate stuff this way.

So, evo is my lazy day gaming mission - Jump on, shoot some stuff, wander off for lunch, come back, keep rank, carry on - Its a no brainer which is sometimes rather welcome.

[Sgain 0]

Sometimes one can fluke out and find a great bunch of folks to work with in Evolution, but often you're stuck with a bunch of glory hounds (read that score padding types). At those times I practice my stealth and fire and movement skills against the AI and usually enjoy myself.

I do wish that there was more randomness in Evolution, and I was very happy with the updated version (v3.0) as it adds re-enforcements and such to the battles, which I think is great and it really adds to the game.

Most co-op missions I've played have no randomness, they are set piece battles with static enemies in the same place each time its played (hence my always wanting to play a mission on time only and move on). A lot of co-op mission designers don't put in decent weapons load outs (imagine a night attack by special ops without silenced weapons), and this is a problem.

What I would really like is a true campaign feeling in the game, with a constantly changing battlefield, I admit I really enjoyed playing Hold a few times with good players, but I wish it had the AI's along to make the targets more interesting.

Oh well. Sorry to ramble.

Have fun folks! Enjoy this excellent game.

[Maciver 0]

I'd gladly play a large scale CTF, and i do play no respawn co-ops sometimes. But if theres no communication on the co-ops i bail right away.

As for the lone wolf score padder crap, i would tend to agree. So, unless we are talking squad play i deffinatly dont want to play with them on a serious map. An evo map is a perfect place for them to be.

Want serious co-ops? PLAY WITH YOUR SQUAD, because they SUCK on pubs where no one works together. The server list needs to have only a few of these and more PvP.

Large scale pvp I'm all for, and i hope he decides to add SLA to evolution. ( I said this already once, and i'll prolly say it again too, because i love this idea. )

P.S. Deathmatch

[Messiah 2]

Quote[/b] ]Sometimes one can fluke out and find a great bunch of folks to work with in Evolution, but often you're stuck with a bunch of glory hounds (read that score padding types). At those times I practice my stealth and fire and movement skills against the AI and usually enjoy myself.

oh god - that reminds me of a time where 4 or so of my squad were all on TS and we were co-ordinating an assault between us on a town - we're laying up looking over the town and seeing whats what and prioritising targets and the like - we hadn't noticed that another guy had tagged on along for the ride, which was fine with us... until:

he opened fired with his GPMG on an entire squad because obviously it would bump up his score - made our position obvious and as we scarpered down the ridge, the place was lit up by 30mm

[frederf 0]

I've played OFP. I've played ArmA. I've played A&D with human/AI mix. I've played A&D with just humans. I've played coop missions without respawn. I've played coop missions with respawn. I've played Evolution. I've played Berzerk. I've played RTS4.

Honestly I find coop w/o respawn to be the most rewarding because it goes at a pace that most people can understand and cope with. You're allowed to outclass the AI by enough margin to win more than 50% of the time and the AI doesn't care. You tend to get people that are more interested in helping their teammate than getting a kill in coop than in PvP.

Imagine for example if Evolution had a 5 or 10 minute respawn. 5 or 10 minutes is not a long time, but much longer than the 15 seconds in the ADD fest. If you left during that time and reconnected the counter would start over. It'd be a few weeks but people would start really looking for a medic or waiting for the other 5 guys to show up before assaulting.

One of the biggest flaws with most coop w/o respawn missions in ArmA is they lack a casualty rate objective. 40 players in a coop? 38 die? The last two play for another hour? All the dead people leave from boredom? That's because the mission should have been OVER at 60% casualties. If you die and they complete the mission with 40% casualties it means you suck and need to die less. If you keep having your mission interrupted because everyone around you dies then you need to start teaching and protecting them. I think it's the "last 2 guys playing for an hour with no chance of winning" syndrome that kills most organized coops.

You can still have respawn in a game w/o the game being rambo too. Make the counter long, make you have to organize a squad together (>5 guys) before you are released from the "respawn pen" back into the game as reinforcements.

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PvP

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I find PvP (w/o respawn) to be too lethal and not indusive to using tactics. When 90% of people die at the first engagement with the enemy then how can you have effective leadership? It's often frustrating to play. Whoever happens to see the other one first is the victor. No reaction, no maneuver, just peekaboo around a corner trading sniper shots until one dies.

PvP with respawn is just the most mindless crap on the planet. Berzerk is awful. Attack helos spamming everything for their 30 second lives before anyone (and everyone) with a Stinger shoots them down. The best teamwork you get is 2 maybe 3 people working together.

[wamingo 1]

You can complain about noobs and tk's and other assorted good and plenty all you like, but you'll find just as many of these on any other kind of play mode. My experience has been: the more competitive, the more assholes.

Evo is pretty competitive for a coop but fortunately the worst asshats can't bugger up the whole mission too bad since things respawn and such.

I switched an empty evo server to hexenkettle last night and it got populated in less than 10 minutes.

And if there are servers with other missions with 10/20 people on you really have little reason to complain. The people have spoken, so to speak

[Gunney 0]

One of the biggest flaws with most coop w/o respawn missions in ArmA is they lack a casualty rate objective. 40 players in a coop? 38 die? The last two play for another hour? All the dead people leave from boredom? That's because the mission should have been OVER at 60% casualties. If you die and they complete the mission with 40% casualties it means you suck and need to die less. If you keep having your mission interrupted because everyone around you dies then you need to start teaching and protecting them. I think it's the "last 2 guys playing for an hour with no chance of winning" syndrome that kills most organized coops.

I agree that most if not all coop missions need to end at a number of friendly troops dead. But telling the people that died that they "need to die less" is pointless to the next mission, you should do like you said and explain what went wrong and what is going to be down differently @ briefing. I always hated that 1 person vs the rest when everybody died in Americas Army too.

Now I think evolution would be great with a 5 min. respawn timer. However, exceeding that would become boring really fast, assuming you are joining a pub server for tactical fun but if you are playing with a squad or community on TS, then no respawns w/ spectating script is the way to go. Could evolution be beat with no respawns whatsoever? yes that is a challenge guys!

Also, dying can also be a learning experience w/ a spectating script because you can see how veteran players react in certain situations. It is also cool watching firefights that way then the bird, but ofcourse being in it is way better.

[Mabes 0]

Could evolution be beat with no respawns whatsoever? yes that is a challenge guys!

There is absolutely no way at all that evolution could be beaten without any respawn, not when the AI can go from a full sprint to shooting out your left eyeball.

[Dudester 0]

Problem is, there is not alot of the ofp community left to to make maps anymore. I speak as one who used to make them. Also sad that we have to argue over one map ^^ is this the only coop map

[Daniel 0]

I think people take respawn for granted and put an unrealistic amount of enemy in no respawn co-ops. It only needs a few AI, those guys can, as the above poster quite rightly said, perforate your left eye at full sprint.

Also, try using Skavan's HD enemy. You'll find that you get whacked in the eye less, and get pinned more, meaning you need to help each other out. Plus they use ricochet sounds that really let you know you're being peppered at.

[USSRsniper 0]

Evolution, highest  score wins? Great teamwork!

I think people want the an easy gameplay. Why play DM and C&H/CTFs when you get your ass wooped? Why bother with hours of practise to be up to the human player standard in OFP when you can go and shoot stupid Ais that are lagged up. ArmA is a good game but its gone really soft.

ArmA should be hard, hard, hard and almost impossible to play because thats what it its in real life. And when you stay alive you get happy and really enjoy the game. Try playing a CTF and come up behind 3 enemy human players and kill em, that rush you get is just worth getting killed 10 times!

So, i play coops, and one time joined to see how CTF changed from OFP days. At the end of CTF coop pl;ayer was first in the list killing every single CTF players....   They couldn't even believe that before this i only played CTF. So CTF was boring playing with people who are new to ArmA, what happedn to OFP CTF vets?   Also what happend to community? Everyone seems creating addons or wants to create addons, without missions nobody will use those addons...

[dmitri 0]

Daniel @ June 24 2007,03:14)]I think people take respawn for granted and put an unrealistic amount of enemy in no respawn co-ops. It only needs a few AI, those guys can, as the above poster quite rightly said, perforate your left eye at full sprint.

I've noticed many of the MP missions centre on mass assaults.. Never anything less than 60 AI. Doesn't allow for much tactical play since the first engagement..is usually everyone's last..

I've had more fun playing with a few 6 man AI patrols, large placement radii and guard waypoints.

[Mabes 0]

Its more fun when you're hit by waves of troops, at max a squad or two at a time, instead of having 60+ troops come running after you with armor and all sorts of vehicles. Especially when there's only like four or so people in your squad.

[Segwin 0]

Max,

As a very new player to ArmA (and a guy who never played OFP), Evolution has a very important "evolutionary" purpose.  In other words, evolution is kinda slow and allows new players like me to meet with experienced players and learn the many layers and complexites of this wide open architecture at an approachable pace.

I think as a new player (actually I know), i will evolve (yep.  Pun intended) into wanting more and deeper and varied experiences.  ArmA strikes me as a game that will be around for a long timme to come.  And right now, people are still cutting their teeth on it (like me).  and just as importantly (and thank god) expereinced players (the old OFP crowd) are coming into Evolution servers and teaching us new guys the many things and strategies that can be done in this game.   Evolution is a great sandbox and meeting place for the old guard to indoctrinate the new guys.  

So I think Evolution is popular becuase the game is deep and many are still learning.  and Evolution has proven to be a great place to learn at an approachable pace.

I'll bet that in 6 to 9 months from now, you will see less Evolution servers and start seeing more sophisticated and varied server mission styles including the PvP stuff you crave.

The same Sleepdoc from Frugs & Falcon?  

Welcome to another great sim!  Hopefully this will mature the same as OFP and Falcon.

[Nutty_101 0]

I have to admit in the maps i have been working on i use the AI as a way to defend the towns. However if a battle ensues the system can tell how many humans are in the town and will retire the AI to barracks depending on how many. I also use them to build the system. They don't just patrol a town, they move around the whole world on their own. I don't mean by going to this point and back. Each town/base can be captured and they all have a set amount of people they can hold. If you cant get anyone new in there your sol and will loose that base. All the missions are dynamic in the fact that they generate depending on conditions and their scripts do not exist. There are some templates for simple things like transporting, but more complex missions are generated based on needs and conditions. Even a higher player can create missions that others play. Some times i just sit there and transport units, vehicles, weapons, ammo or fuel around bases to keep them stocked while testing. I just try to appeal to everyone really.

This is what I think that Evo has done very well. That is K managed to create a map that just appeals to quite a few types of players. One being people who just want to transport and play a role. How many missions reward someone who never fires a gun?? Can't think of any off the top of my head. You also have to realize that there are other simulation genre fans playing this game. One example is the flight sim people who are here enjoying the ability to transport people, or provide recon/support. Heck, why not appeal to them. Evo has in quite a few respects. I have seen two or three guys running around in a tank all working with each other in the game. If you can build a map that appeals to more than one set group then whats the harm? More people come play and that is better for us all. Bezerker missions are so tight quarters that a pilot has no real use there. Yet there are the masses who want to spawn at that front line run in and blast a few peeps to a new dimension. So they die more often. Did you see how many people died trying to storm the beach on d-day? All in order i guess.

[sniper pilot 36]

Max @ June 22 2007,04:24)]

Join a league is all I can say. Heh

What the hell type league a freaking Evolution League?

I want to join a league but it doesn't appear to me enough clans or servers are playing anything but EvoFreakingLUTION!

The 4th IB rarely, if ever, plays Evolution...

[Vegabond 0]

Max @ June 22 2007,04:24)]

Join a league is all I can say. Heh

What the hell type league a freaking Evolution League?

I want to join a league but it doesn't appear to me enough clans or servers are playing anything but EvoFreakingLUTION!

The 4th IB rarely, if ever, plays Evolution...

Whats the 4th IB website?