Detailed Global Mapping (DGM) Project

[bravo 6 0]

i wonder where you got that idea

Yup its a great idea indeed, also hard to make it real for sure, but theres always hope.

Good luck with the project if people start.

[maddogx 13]

@Romolus:

No one ever said it's simple to just throw together an island and a couple of tools. That's why it's supposed to be a collaborative project. The more people working together, the less work everyone has to do. Btw. I have tried to make an island for OFP and yes it is a lot of work. No one ever stated otherwise.

I don't really understand your reaction here - it almost seems like you are personally offended by the idea.

[Romolus 0]

I'm not personally offended by any means

I just find it a bit funny how there's some lively suggesting going on here, where obviously most of the ones suggesting don't really have a clear idea what they're talking about.

People like DeadMeat and shinRaiden already explained how impossible such an approach is the way it was suggested and they both know what they're talking about. But no one even seemed to address the points they made.

It doesn't bring the idea any further to just keep on posting nice Google Earth shots and ignoring the real problems.

MadDogX you're right that the more people working together, the less work everyone has to do.

That's why I suggested exactly that: Everyone start doing some islands or grab a programming book

[Raptor 10]

Nice idea, but the major problem would be to find enough people for the mapping groups which has enough skills of mapping.

I think the ArmA comm. is not such big that this project will become true, but you can start mapping on a little area like the Darfur town. Maybe that would be possible.

EDIT:

Also the needed Tools aren't released yet and as it seems that will also take many ( ? >_< ) time for the release.

[dm 9]

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/9477/13ix2.jpg

Diego Garcia Airport. You can see the B52s and probably AWACS parked and near those HIGH EXPLOSIVES magazines (Where they store the 5,000 pounds bombs). The place is beautiful.

They arent magazines for weapons, but environmentally controlled, "temporary", hangars for the B2 bombers.

Plus, the biggest "conventional" explosive in use with either the USAF or the RAF is the 2000lb Mk84 (which forms the basis for the 2000lb JDAM, Paveway and other guided versions)

Edit: Also, the aircraft labled as "AWACS" are actually KC-135 Extenders (tanker aircraft)

[maddogx 13]

I think the ArmA comm. is not such big that this project will become true

You're probably right on that one. Although even a team of seven or eight experienced people could probably get a fairly large map done pretty fast (meaning within a few weeks).

@Romolus: Ok, now I get ya!  

[robert(uk) 0]

Wow, it's great to see the community getting going again on awesome ideas and projects. I really, really look forward to trying some of the things you come up with out...

[Ronin13 0]

...

[Daniel 0]

My first attempt at island building was to use the elevation indicator in Google Earth to recreate part of North West England using Wilbur. Very tedious, but the end result didn't look too bad. Obviously now I know of DEMs, and the Google Earth satellite image of my area has improved drastically. Can't wait for the tools.

By the way, I was reminded by the picture of the Darfur crisis on page 1. If anyone has a look on Google Earth, the scale of the crisis is umbelievable.

On topic, obviously we'll never get the world into ArmA. But I think if groups of people worked together on places that are important to them, we could see some detailed, accurate  52km x 52km islands of real life areas.  

[Ronin13 0]

...

[Ronin13 0]

...

[dm 9]

GBU-28 is a 5000 lbs bunker buster bomb. Its use in Afghanistan to blow up tunnels in mountains. Usually from B52s and B2s.

Ahhh yes, I forgot about that one. My apologies on that.

Yes it could be a B2 hangar but It can be a HIGH EXPLOSIVE magazine too. It is difficult to know unless you have been there. Some magazines are rounded. They are built that way to contain a probable explosion inside the Magazine as much as possible until it blows the top.

They're B2 hangars, of that I can assure you.

Globalsecurity.org news <- this one shows the first two on DG after construction.

Globalsecurity.org source

Globalsecurity.org pictures source

That is difficult to know from the distance. I said probable AWACS, not that they are AWACS. Modern AWACS look like tankers so is hard to know. Maybe it is a Tanker because I can see the JP containers near.

There are a few easy ways to identify what the aircraft is.

The "classic" AWACS is the E-3, that has the large radome on the upper rear fuselage. These do not.

The E-8 JSTARS (not technically AWACS, but still) doesnt have any distinguising features from the aerial view, so they could concievably be E-8's.

I was basing my assumption that they arent AWACS on tow things:

1. The engine pods are much larger than the original JT3D turbofan engines. (The KC-135R has been refitted with much larger TF-33-PW-102 high-bypass turbofans, whilst the E-8 JSTARS retains the original JT3D turbofans)

2. The shadows cast under the lower 3 aircraft (looking at the closer imagery in google earth) which appear to be casting shadows of the refuelling boom:

Diego Garcia, upper most aircraft has "suspected" refuelling boom shadow outlined.

Robins AFB, upper most aircraft has known refuelling boom shadow highlighted.

Sorry for the OT

[Raptor 10]

Quote[/b] ]I think the ArmA comm. is not such big that this project will become true, but you can start mapping on a little area like the Darfur town. Maybe that would be possible.

Yes it is not like the OFP community because the game has a reputation that it came broken when BIS first release it. But, the game has been fixed and sooner or latter people from OFP will come back and this will be, again, a big family. So have faith. By the time BIS release the tools we need we hopefully will have enough people to start a project like this.

Like I said before I know it will not be easy. I had made maps before for OFP but never release them. But I believe that with this new terrain streaming engine we can replicate the real thing as best as posible. Not like 100% accurate but lets say 65%.

These is an IDEA to make ArmA the ultimate realistic simulation with real world scenarios. IMAGINE THAT.

As i've said, its a great idea, beside the other great mapping ideas, starting at realising some detailed places to mapping the whole world. ( http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....t=62256 )

But that project doesn't need only 10 or 20 skilled mapper, it need hundreds of skilled mappers. You must also imagen that this project will be also and side project for the most mappers because often the most talented people here are involved in several projects, so it would take many time to realise it.

The next point is, will ArmA handle such big map"s"? ofcause the new steaming technology allows much freedom to the mappers and addonmakers but also there are limits in the engine.

But as you said maybe there will be a group which occupy themselfs with a map like Darfur.

btw. isn't it an A&D topic?

[Ronin13 0]

...

[dm 9]

@DeadMeatXM2

Quote[/b] ]Diego Garcia, upper most aircraft has "suspected" refuelling boom shadow outlined.

Yes you are right they are tankers and like I said before they are close to JP containers.

Proximity to the fuel tanks has nothing to do with it. Its a general apron, and if you look at archived satellite images of DG you can see aircraft ranging from C-130's through to B-1B's parked in that section of the ramp.

Anyho, enough OT from me

[Ronin13 0]

...

[dm 9]

@DeadMeatXM2

Quote[/b] ]Proximity to the fuel tanks has nothing to do with it. Its a general apron, and if you look at archived satellite images of DG you can see aircraft ranging from C-130's through to B-1B's parked in that section of the ramp.

Well, Diego Garcia runway is limited by space, it is a small Isle, so it will be logical to place the tankers near the JP containers. There is also an enbiromental isue there.

I'm going to have to be a liar

As far as I know, DG is not "plummed" (i.e. doesnt have fueling capability built into the apron) so the fuel has to be loaded onto the bowsers (fuel trucks), and then transfered to the aircraft. So proximity to the fuel tanks is irrelevant.

Distance between the tanks and recieving aircraft is pretty null and void on an environmental level too.

[Ronin13 0]

...

[Heatseeker 0]

I could see some airports or city areas being recreated with some acuracy but not much more than that.

Take a walk around the Mog.

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF....=k&om=1

Impossible, way too big and concentrated lol.

I think Fallujah would be possible though, its not that big.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ll....k&hl=en

But it would be a crazy task/project and really not that worth it..

I understand the fascination about recreating RL in a game, from graphics and acurate details and to the game world itself.

Once we are "playing" in the game world we wont notice it, i think a natural looking, "inspired on something" map is good enough for how we end up using the game.

[dm 9]

I'm afraid that we're [bAS] going to have to politely decline your "offer"

We have some fairly specific plans as to what we wish to achieve in ArmA, details of which will be revealed at an appropriate time.

I can confirm, however, that a realistic Somalia/Mogadishu map is NOT on the cards, and probably never will be.

[Edit] Before anyone asks: We have many reasons not to do an accurate Somalia/Mogadishu map, ranging from technical to personal, as well as the fact our current project load is pretty full as it is, and there is nothing we particularly want to "drop" in order to take on other projects.

[Jack-UK 0]

Realistically ur not gonna be able to plot the whole word. Not until file sizes + hard drive sizes become considerably bigger, but anyone who says it WONT EVER happen is an idiot.

Remember the days when kilobytes were HUGE?

Now we're into the hundreds of gigabytes per hard drive as standard, and pc games weigh in at 10GB frequently after installation.. heck.. HD movies + BLU RAY are like 40 GB i think.

So not with ArmA, not with Game 2, maybe later :P

But what about a to scale Falkland islands? or even something the size of the UK???

[Ronin13 0]

...

[dm 9]

Quote[/b] ]Impossible, way too big and concentrated lol.

Creativity is the key.

Creativity can only go so far to defeat maximum object counts, polygon limits and object density.

You COULD create a Mogadishu map, but it would be no where near the real-world object density, and would have to lack a vast amount of the detail present in the real world to be even remotely playable.

Quote[/b] ]I think Fallujah would be possible though, its not that big.

Yes Falluja looks find as well as MOGADISHU.

Seems like someone really wants a specific map It would be wise to start learning exactly what is required for such a project

Before anyone asks: We have many reasons not to do an accurate Somalia/Mogadishu map, ranging from technical to personal, as well as the fact our current project load is pretty full as it is, and there is nothing we particularly want to "drop" in order to take on other projects.

If your project load is full get more people. That is what I have been saying since the begining to get people to do something like this.

There is the age old saying "too many cooks spoil the broth" which would probably stand very true here. There is a huge amount of work which would need to be done, plus it all has to adhere to certain standards AND the artwork would all have to match in order to present an anywhere decent looking addon.

Add to that the ever diluting tallent pool, as skilled people join other teams and projects, as well as the fact that we don't want everyone and anyone to join - bad experiences in the past have bolstered that train of thought. And you can see that its not a simple case of "getting more people to join the team to do the work"

Just like the work its self, it is a complex situation to manage

[maddogx 13]

A point no one has mentioned so far is that even if we were able to create huge maps that are the size of whole countries or whatever, it would still be far beyond the scope of ArmA.

No one needs 1000x1000km maps, it's just ridiculous because no battle will ever be fought over that entire area. We're better off going with a maximum of about 100x100km, which is just 1% of the size but still more than enough, when you consider how big Sahrani is.

[Heatseeker 0]

A point no one has mentioned so far is that even if we were able to create huge maps that are the size of whole countries or whatever, it would still be far beyond the scope of ArmA.

No one needs 1000x1000km maps, it's just ridiculous because no battle will ever be fought over that entire area. We're better off going with a maximum of about 100x100km, which is just 1% of the size but still more than enough, when you consider how big Sahrani is.

Yep, reminds me of driving all the way from the sahrani airfield to Pita in Evolution maps .

Balance... scale vs detail/acuracy is key.

The whole Mog is just ridiculous to even consider .