Holand - i am in shock

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]But I have no donor pass because I simply don't know how to get one

It´s very easy, at least in germany. Just go to a pharmacy and take one with you, fill it out at home, tell your relatives or next contact person about it and have it with your passport, medical card or drivers license.

There are no examinations, that will happen after you´re *cough* dead. Hopefully not soon, but you´re old enough to know that it can happen anyday, anytime.

[JdB 151]

Quote[/b] ]How many of you guys and girls actually have an organ donation pass ?

I guess most of us will only think about the issue when they are suddenly in need of a donor organ.

In Holland we (at one point) all received a card to state our choice on, I chose not to be a donor, but am currently unsure on my former choice...

As much as this show is disstastefull, it does create alot of attention for the subject, though this might also backfire on the amount of donor-candidates instead of increasing it through to a shear cultureshock. The 2 sick people who won't "win" will probably be in need of mental guidance for the rest of their lives.

[kakagoegie 0]

Yes, let's decrease the freedom of speach. We think this donor programm is immoral. Let's forbid it. What's next, forbidding the Teletubbies because Tinkie Winkie is gay. Oh, I forgot, they were already thinking about that in Poland. I guess beating gays up whenever they come out of the closeth wasn't enough.

Poland I'm in shock, Poland I'm in shock.

[NeMeSiS 11]

Quote[/b] ]How many of you guys and girls actually have an organ donation pass ?

I guess most of us will only think about the issue when they are suddenly in need of a donor organ.

In Holland we (at one point) all received a card to state our choice on, I chose not to be a donor, but am currently unsure on my former choice...

IMO it should be done differently: You are automatically an organ donor, and if you choose not to you should take care of that yourself, and not the other way around.

For what it matters: Im an orgon donor and they can take everything that has some use after my death, its not like i need them myself then..

[JdB 151]

IMO it should be done differently: You are automatically an organ donor, and if you choose not to you should take care of that yourself, and not the other way around.

Most people can't even be bothered to mail back their tax-papers, let alone something they won't have need for for (hopefully) many years to come

I do agree with some limit of freedom of speech in terms of broadcasting, after all if we were to broadcast everything we would be having "Ali's urban warfare and bombmaking class", "Uncle Hitler says: All Jews are Evil" or "When Jason met Kate, Tiffany, Jennifer, Susan and Lindsay Repeatedly" (not such a bad idea that last one) on public broadcast...

[MAA3057 0]

Oh man that this sucks. Reality TV is looking more like The Running Man every other passing year.

[Sc@tterbrain 0]

Quote[/b] ]AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (AP)

"We know that this program is super controversial and some people will think it's tasteless, but we think the reality is even more shocking and tasteless: waiting for an organ is just like playing the lottery," Laurens Drillich, chairman of the BNN network, said in a statement.

When I first heard of this I thought it was a rather vulgar concept.  Then I read the news line posted.  

The fact that people wait for organs is vulgar, thus justifying a vulgar TV show?

Which makes more sense:

A.) Programming in the form of trendy "reality-tv" that will earn money for the company broadcasting it by commercializing the tradgedy of others and selling ad time.

B.) A documentary or investigative journalist report that sheds a light onto a tragic issue in a compassionate manner.

Sadly I'm not even that suprised.  With the growing popularity of "Ultimate fighting," I'm waiting for the show where strangers have to hunt down and kill other common folks until there is one left...for ALL NEW APPLIANCES!

"LAST CITIZEN STANDING...brought to you by Whirlpool."

[vilas 473]

"How many of you guys and girls actually have an organ donation pass ?

"

in PL you are donor by the law, if you do not want, you have to write this and state this

[xawery 0]

Before I continue, I should say I'm a proud owner of a donor pass.

Regarding the show: there are a few things which should be taken into account. First of all, it is being produced by BNN: a public network created for the purpose of creating bleeding-edge, provocative programming. It could very well be a ploy to fuel a discussion about organ donation, and the program might not actually exist. That sounds like something BNN would do. If this is true, I must say they've done a great job - the whole of Europe is discussing the matter now. There are other clues which point in this direction. For example, the would-be donor suffers from cancer, and there is no way of telling whether the disease won't spread to her kidney. I doubt the makers haven't thought about that, so that should give us some pause.

Second, while the show may be tasteless (the producers admit it) the real-life situation is even more disturbing. In the Netherlands, only 5 million have registered, and only 60% of that amount are actually willing to donate at least one organ after their death. This is appalling. What is even more infuriating is the fact that the hypocrites who don't want to donate are all too willing to accept an organ when they need it. This is unacceptable. Such people should be placed on the very bottom of any organ waiting list.

The situation is really tragic, and requires everyone's attention. This show is a very controversial, yet effective at achieving that. For those of you who suggest a "touching documentary" or some such nonsense: do you have any idea how many of those have been made? Dozens, if not more. All the facts are known, but people just don't care. This show is a good way of waking people up from their apathy. Even if it's never aired, it has served it's purpose. All of a sudden, we have a discussion on a European level, and the European commissioner for Health is suggest a pan-Union system. Well done.

I'm glad the Netherlands haven't lost it's provocative spirit. I was afraid it had died during "Spruitjesman"'s ascent to power...

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

i am antiliberal

Electro:

David Irving for example, punished in Austria and one more country for exapmle for denying holocaust, little forbidden in PL, but printed in other countries, few days ago he was pushed out from publishers exhibition of historical books in my city

What history books and where?

It has nothing to do with free speech. If a country wants to learn their children that the holocaust have or have not been there, they print history books as they please, and censur out the rest.

That is the opposit of free speech.

Free speech is the ability to speak about your views on the world without getting punished. Free speech is NOT HOW you make your point - that is not the responsibility of free speech.

For instance, you are not allowed to kill whalehunters, just to tell the world you think it's wrong to kill whales. Killing the hunter is a crime, and has not anything to do with free speech.

You cannot deny free speech, even though this guy, David Irving, is denying holocaust, so be it. Do not argument by silencing him. Argument him by facts and the trueth. Especially on a such important topic as this.

Again, I have a hard time believing you haven't misunderstood something about that guy. He havent written a history book since the 70'ies, and is only writing biographies now. WHEN he did write history books, he didn't deny holocaust. I believe he is writing his own biography right now, called 'Irvins war' or something.

He have been denying holocaust in books, but they are not classified as historican books, and he is by most people not percieved as a historian. What you talk about, sounds like the typical hype that some journalists tend to get when there's nothing else to write about, and sees a frontpage article based on allmost nothing.

//Edit - I'm give blood every 3 months, and have signed that they can take whatever they want, when i'm no more. I won't need it

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

I really don't care what happens with my body after I died. But I have no donor pass because I simply don't know how to get one (without any major effort by my side) and frankly - I'm too lazy to research what I need to do. I think this is also a problem of bad information policy of the responsible organisation (at least here in Switzerland)

What an ignorant, childish and stupid oppinion.

That is the worst thing i've ever heard.

Would you be too lazy to step on your brakes the next time a child runs out infront of your car?

[vilas 473]

kakagoegie:

this is offtopic, but what concerns teledubbies in PL:

law says that public officer has to take investigation to every application,

so if one stupid man will write stupid application to public administration,

we cannot refuse to investigate this

my friend from criminal police in other district of city has  one old lady, who says that she was robbed by UFO, no matter what she says, he must send patrol to check this, because there is possibility that for example some burglars are using comic suit to make people disorientated

this is true history: we had few burglaries when criminal was in rabbit suit

when he robbed houses people were thinking that this was dream, so even most stupid application must be checked

i am also public officer in polish goverment

i have to check all, no matter if it has sense or not, i cannot judge before i will check issue

so if one stupid person gave teledubbies issue to public administration, we have obey to check it, of course verdict is well known, but issue on this must be checked :/

and political party of which are those teledubbies-fighters has maybe 4-6% of votes

so 95 % of population is against it

but this is the price of democracy, that even most stupid idiot can say something and if other 5% of idiotes will vote for him, he is in the parliament

in our parliament you have 5% barrier , if you have 5.1% of votes, you are

and second thing , everyone has right to vote, so even 18 years old stuipid boy with no education or 90 years old brainwashed alzheimer too , there is no education or age right to vote

thats why this teledubbies circus is

maybe this 5% barrier is to low, but it is as it is

in European Union Commision  few years ago there was an issue "are bananas are curved or straight" this was also stupid as teledubbies issue

so ... think about this issue again

electro:

"David Irving, is denying holocaust, so be it"

freedom of speech? so if someone will say that 2+2=5 you say he has right to publish not true ?

denying holocaust in many countries is a crime man !

his place is in prison or insane-clinic

learning and teaching differnt history is very big problem

because some people from some states can have wrong view of surrounding environment

for example russians/soviets shools do not teach that Stalin was cooperating with HItler till 1941 (tank manufacture, steel , coal and etc. ) and in 17-09-1939 he invaded Poland with Nazis

we were invaded by USSR in 1939, many of our citizens were shot dead or forced to work for free as slaves and moved out to Siberia (like Nazis did it in manufacturies), but they are teached that they are only freedom brigers who fought nazism

of course they were giving blood and free the world, but after 1941

history is like investigation, to search for the truth, not to deny as Irvings do

such irvings just cause noises and mess between nations

[sputnik monroe 102]

This just seems... hell I don't even know any more. Is this a bad dream or is the world really this fucking messed up?

 I'm an organ donor. In the United States it is very easy, when you get your drivers license you can check a box on the application and then bingo you're an organ donor. When it comes time to renew your license you get the option to check the box again or not.

 My mother once saw my drivers license and was shocked to see the organ donor logo on it (a heart with a seat belt over it). She said "Oh my god what have you done." I don't get why some people are shocked about it, I mean when I'm dead what use will I have for my organs? It's not like they are going to kill me and take them from me while I'm alive.

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

This just seems... hell I don't even know any more. Is this a bad dream or is the world really this fucking messed up?

I'm an organ donor. In the United States it is very easy, when you get your drivers license you can check a box on the application and then bingo you're an organ donor. When it comes time to renew your license you get the option to check the box again or not.

My mother once saw my drivers license and was shocked to see the organ donor logo on it (a heart with a seat belt over it). She said "Oh my god what have you done." I don't get why some people are shocked about it, I mean when I'm dead what use will I have for my organs? It's not like they are going to kill me and take them from me while I'm alive.

I think my parents would be dissapointed if I wasn't an organ donor. I think most people here in Denmark are. There are, of course, a few lunatics and a couple weird selfish religios people - but thank god (don't take that litterally), it's a minority.

I think Xawery was actually spot on. There probably isn't a program at all, but one large media stunt. Just like the spoof commercial than Tanja would give 40.000 Blowjobs away . That was actually a small marcetingfirm using photoshop, and was never anything officially.

But that's just a few examples how lousy the media is nowadays. They aren't very critical with what they publish.

[kakagoegie 0]

There are, of course, a few lunatics and a couple weird selfish religios people - but thank god (don't take that litterally), it's a minority.

This made me want to look at what religions discourage organ transplantation.

Quote[/b] ]Your Religion

Does my religion approve of organ donation?

An often-heard question when organ donation is being discussed is: "Does my religion approve?" Recently the New York Regional Transplant Program published the views of major religion on the subject. Here are those positions.

AME & AME ZION (African Methodist Episcopal)

Organ and tissue donation is viewed as an act of neighborly love and charity by these denominations. They encourage all members to support donation as a way of helping others.

AMISH

Approved if there is a definite indication that the health of the recipient would improve, but reluctant if the outcome is questionable.

ASSEMBLY OF GOD

The Church has no official policy in regards to organ and tissue donation. The decision to donate is left up to the individual. Donation is highly supported by the denomination.

BAPTIST

Donation is supported as an act of charity and the church leaves the decision to donate up to the individual.

BRETHREN

The Church of the Brethren’s Annual Conference in 1993 wrote a resolution on organ and tissue donation in support and encouragement of donation. They wrote that, "We have the opportunity to help others out of love for Christ, through the donation of organs and tissues."

BUDDHISM

Donation is a matter of conscience.

CATHOLICISM

Transplants are acceptable to the Vatican and donation is encouraged as an act of charity.

CHRISTIAN CHURCH (DISCIPLES OF CHRIST)

The Christian Church does not prohibit organ and tissue donation. They feel that it is a personal decision to be made in conjunction with family and medical personnel.

CHRISTIAN SCIENCE

No position, leaving it to the individual.

EPISCOPAL

The Episcopal Church passed a resolution in 1982 that recognizes the life-giving benefits of organ, blood, and tissue donation. All Christians are encouraged to become organ, blood, and tissue donors "as part of their ministry to others in the name of Christ, who gave his life that we may have life in its fullness."

GREEK ORTHODOX

No objection to procedures that contribute to restoration of health, but donation of the entire body for experimentation or research is not consistent with tradition.

GYPSIES (ROMANY)

Gypsies are a people of different ethnic groups without a formalized religion. They share common folk beliefs and tend to be opposed to organ and tissue donation. Their opposition is connected with their beliefs about the afterlife. Traditional belief contends that for one year after death, the soul retraces its steps. Thus, the body must remain intact because the soul maintains its physical shape.

HINDUISM

Donation of organs is an individual decision.

INDEPENDENT CONSERVATIVE EVANGELICAL

Generally, Evangelicals have no opposition to organ and tissue donation. Each church is autonomous and leaves the decision to donate up to the individual.

ISLAM

The religion of Islam strongly believes in the principle of saving human lives. According to A. Sachedina in his Transplantation Proceedings article, Islamic Views on Organ Transplantation, " The majority of Muslim scholars belonging to various schools of Islamic law have invoked the principle of priority of saving human life and have permitted the organ transplant as a necessity to procure that noble end."

JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES

Donation is a matter of individual conscience with provision that all organs and tissues be completely drained of blood.

JUDAISM

Jews believe that if it is possible to donate an organ to save a life, it is obligatory to do so. Since restoring sight is considered life saving, this includes cornea organ transplantation.

LUTHERAN

In 1984, the Lutheran Church in America passed a resolution stating that donation contributes to the well-being of humanity and can be "an expression of sacrificial love for a neighbor in need." They call on "members to consider donating organs and to make any necessary family and legal arrangements, including the use of a signed donor card."

MENNONITE

Mennonites have no formal position on donation, but are not opposed to it. They believe the decision to donate is up to the individual and/or their family.

MORMON (CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS)

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints believes that the decision to donate is an individual one made in conjunction with family, medical personnel, and prayer. They do not oppose donation.

PENTECOSTAL

Pentecostals believe that the decision to donate should be left up to the individual.

PRESBYTERIAN

Presbyterians encourage and support donation. They respect a person’s right to make decisions regarding their own body.

PROTESTANTISM

Encourage and endorse organ donation.

QUAKER

Donation of transplants is an individual decision.

SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST

Donation and transplantation are strongly encouraged by Seventh-day Adventists. They have many transplant hospitals, including Loma Linda in California. Loma Linda specializes in pediatric heart transplantation.

SHINTO

In Shinto, the dead body is considered to be impure and dangerous, and thus quite powerful. "In folk belief context, injuring as dead body is a serious crime. . .", according to E Narnihira in his article, "Shinto Concept Concerning the Dead Human Body." "To this day it is difficult to obtain consent from bereaved families for organ donation or dissection for medical education or pathological anatomy . . . the Japanese regard them all in the sense of injuring a dead body." Families are concerned that they not injure the itai - - the relationship between the dead person and the bereaved people.

SOCIETY OF FRIENDS (QUAKERS)

Organ and tissue donation is believed to be an individual decision. The Society of Friends does not have an official position on donation.

UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST

Organ and tissue donation is widely supported by Unitarian Universalists. They view it as an act of love and selfless giving.

UNITED CHURCH OF CHRIST

The United Church of Christ supports and encourages donation.

UNITED METHODIST

The United Methodist Church issued a policy statement in regards to organ and tissue donation. In it, they state that "The United Methodist Church recognizes the life-giving benefits of organ and tissue transplant."

So it seems, only gypsies and shinto oppose organ transplantation.

[vilas 473]

"So it seems, only gypsies and shinto oppose organ transplantation."

in gypsies "culture" thre is not only this, stealing is also good if you not steal from gypsie, if you steal from gypsie you can be killed

just like mariage, gypsie can mary 13 years old, but when gypsie girl love white, than she is out of their family

for me this is sick

gypsies are in my country known mostly as beggars, thiefs, iullegal imigrants from Romania, Bulgaria, that do not respect local law, just their own clan law

they are not integrating, not sending children to public schools

althought not working, wearing a lot of gold and jevelery

Police and prison system has a lot of work with them :/

and now their statement do not surprises me at all

i think anti-donors are selfish and thats all

in modern societies cars are safer than some time ago, many road accidents ends with just some days in hospital,

only "hope" is in stupid fast bikers who drove fast in broken necks going 150-200 km/h on the streets

if not only neck is broken, ooops problem

but i thought that in many countries there is such donor obligation law like in PL, when stated must be refusion, not agree ?

[Ironsight 1]

"So it seems, only gypsies and shinto oppose organ transplantation."

in gypsies "culture" thre is not only this, stealing is also good if you not steal from gypsie, if you steal from gypsie you can be killed

just like mariage, gypsie can mary 13 years old, but when gypsie girl love white, than she is out of their family

for me this is sick

gypsies are in my country known mostly as beggars, thiefs, iullegal imigrants from Romania, Bulgaria, that do not respect local law, just their own clan law

they are not integrating, not sending children to public schools

althought not working, wearing a lot of gold and jevelery

Police and prison system has a lot of work with them :/

and now their statement do not surprises me at all

Yes, everybody hates gypsies but what does this has to do with the topic?

[vilas 473]

not hate, just it is for me insane that there 2 religions which not value human life of living man more than some meat and corpse

[Commando84 0]

man thats sick! i dont watch to many reality shows, lately i´ve onyl watched my newly purchased battlestar galactica tv show, a bit OT but i wonder if it would be able to be made as a mod for arma

[Jahve 0]

This whole basic precept is clearly flawed. To be in need of an organ transplant you wouldnt be able to actually do any fighting.

This is indeed offtopic!

[4-Eyes 0]

Wow, hahaha, talk about original

I don't know why everybody is getting so upset about it, it's a normal provocative evolution of the current reality shows, and the times we live in. The public gets what it deserves, no less, no more.

[NeMeSiS 11]

This whole basic precept is clearly flawed. To be in need of an organ transplant you wouldnt be able to actually do any fighting.

What fighting? What kind of news sources do you people have?

[Stereo 0]

Before I continue, I should say I'm a proud owner of a donor pass.

Regarding the show: there are a few things which should be taken into account. First of all, it is being produced by BNN: a public network created for the purpose of creating bleeding-edge, provocative programming. It could very well be a ploy to fuel a discussion about organ donation, and the program might not actually exist. That sounds like something BNN would do. If this is true, I must say they've done a great job - the whole of Europe is discussing the matter now. There are other clues which point in this direction. For example, the would-be donor suffers from cancer, and there is no way of telling whether the disease won't spread to her kidney. I doubt the makers haven't thought about that, so that should give us some pause.

Second, while the show may be tasteless (the producers admit it) the real-life situation is even more disturbing. In the Netherlands, only 5 million have registered, and only 60% of that amount are actually willing to donate at least one organ after their death. This is appalling. What is even more infuriating is the fact that the hypocrites who don't want to donate are all too willing to accept an organ when they need it. This is unacceptable. Such people should be placed on the very bottom of any organ waiting list.

The situation is really tragic, and requires everyone's attention. This show is a very controversial, yet effective at achieving that. For those of you who suggest a "touching documentary" or some such nonsense: do you have any idea how many of those have been made? Dozens, if not more. All the facts are known, but people just don't care. This show is a good way of waking people up from their apathy. Even if it's never aired, it has served it's purpose. All of a sudden, we have a discussion on a European level, and the European commissioner for Health is suggest a pan-Union system. Well done.

I'm glad the Netherlands haven't lost it's provocative spirit. I was afraid it had died during "Spruitjesman"'s ascent to power...

'Spruitjesman'?

[Kirby 2]

This whole basic precept is clearly flawed. To be in need of an organ transplant you wouldnt be able to actually do any fighting.

What fighting? What kind of news sources do you people have?

I believe Jahve was making a joke

[kakagoegie 0]

'Spruitjesman'?

In Holland we recently got a new cabinet made up ouf of 2 christian conservative parties and labour. Some left-wingers don't like this because they think that this governemt will reduce their provocative as Xawery mentioned.

Somehow this gives people a sour/bitter feeling which reminds them of Brussels sprout. Brussels sprouts are spruitjes in dutch, hence spruitjesman = our MP Dr. Balkenende.

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