ArmA is just ... disappointing

[goodguyswearblack9 0]

I think that Arma will be better as time goes on and more things are repaired; we've got a great game that needs a little tweaking.

[hundeswehr 0]

dudester, the ofp animations were horrible and glitchy. why would they want them back? now if you shot a guy when he's in the middle of doing an action he actually gets interrupted and dies/falls instead of finishing his animation then dying.

[Teliko 0]

Yeah, you actually move like a soldier in ArmA rather than a string puppet with exaggerated movements

[The_Captain 0]

Re: the tank doing 360's: In one of the arma patches, they decided to leave engines on when you eject or change positions in a vehicle. I assume this is because enemies target vehicles with engines that are on, and the devs wanted AI to engage empty vehicles.

This had the nasty side effect, in tanks, of continuing to rotate tanks if they were turning any amount when the driver position was exited: (eg if you move to gunner spot). Hence, f*^ 360's. Also bloody annoying when you knock out a tank's treads, the crew jump out, and the tank does 360's. (To get around this, in my missions I set a tank's fuel to 0 when it can't move, so the crew don't jump out and the tank doesn't do 360's...)

One could add a "getout" eventhandler to every vehicle that switched off its engine or a script that checked for a null driver and turned the engine off.

Anyway, annoying.

(P.S. I think arma animations are fine for MP PvP...)

[BigRed 2]

... when you go from driver to gunner and the tanks does 360s

Unlikely to get fixed in ArmA1 ...  

The source might be in the model. So custom tank models could

fix this (means addon use)....

So Q your telling me they won't fix something that is as basic as that?  I mean I no nothing about fixing games but it didn't do it till patch 1.08 so they screwed it up some where.

I mean am I the only guy here that thinks that addons coming out by third pardy release are better than what the game provides.  To me thats pretty sad!

I think that Arma will be better as time goes on and more things are repaired; we've got a great game that needs a little tweaking.

People that think this are living a dream they will fix it maybe in ArmA 2 and leave us with one more patch that as I can see helps cheating go away for a week maybe but who cares because everyone in MP plays COOP!

Q your a good friend and a great coder but this is same game that drove your team away like mine why waste your time with it if they don't fix simple stuff.

[.kju 3240]

BI is working on ArmA2.

If ArmA2 fails, BI might be dust.

With OFP2 by CM they _might_ have a real competitor.

BI is still putting a few resources into patching ArmA1, combating

public cheating, fixing their tools, however don't expect much

after 1.09 and even 1.09 takes ages (without that much change

I believe).

Their decision and focus is understandable from my pov.

@BigRed:

We came back after half a year, as even though ArmA1 is pretty

much disappointing in many areas, once you are able to manage

the hardware probs and get your controls and sound + video

settings sorted, we are able to enjoy ArmA.

Most important is to agree on goals within your team and get

a good challenge by other teams / leagues!

Bottom line:

We haven't found a better game for our needs and prios.

Once there is one, ArmA1 will be in the trash can in a matter of seconds.

[dmarkwick 261]

I wish i hadn't reinstalled Ofp now. It has shown me what i am missing (gameplay wise) and why the servers numbers are so low on Armed assault.

If you have OFP installed, why on Earth are you still missing out on gameplay? If OFP is the game you prefer, then play OFP

It sounds rather obvious when you say it out loud. I have both installed & running, I miss out on nothing

[sbsmac 0]

Quote[/b] ]BI is still putting a few resources into patching ArmA1, combating

public cheating, fixing their tools, however don't expect much

after 1.09 and even 1.09 takes ages (without that much change

I believe).

As someone who has managed software projects (albeit, none of them games) I would argue that given the likely strong resemblance between Arma1 and Arma2 code-bases, it would make a lot of sense to prototype Arma2 features and bug-fixes by releasing them as patches to Arma1 where practical. Assuming that many minor issues need to be fixed anyway, you might as well release them earlier. At some point the codebases will diverge to the point where this simply can't be done but the developers have already stated that many aspects such as the script engine and addons will be compatible. Any modern revision-control system (shameless plug for Perforce here) will allow work to be readily duplicated on two or more branches.

FWIW, I'm a reasonably satisfied PvP player - I understand why a lot of people find the animations 'clumsy' but I can live with them because at least a couple of times a game I look at the scenery and think how much prettier this game is than OFP. Not to mention that there are some major improvements in gameplay (lean, inability to grenade people inside houses, better sound).

On-topic: My _disappointments_ are:-

* Poor release and marketing strategies have resulted in a dearth of online players. I really do worry whether it will be possible to continue playing PvP in this game for more than another few months.

* BIS not taking advantage of the combined talent of the community to sweep up many of the minor issues that have been reported - I look at a lot of these config changes and a lot of the recent mods such as NWD's tank fire control system and can't help thinking that BIS would do well to incorporate these into the core game. (I understand that there are commercial complications in including user-content but speaking personally I would willingly contribute work for free.)

* Community relations have been poor - Placebo has not been around much despite his much-heralded return.

[.kju 3240]

Good points sbsmac!

Same thoughts here.

I guess BI decided not to use agile / rapid / iterative development

ideas and methods for their products (to a higher extent).

The answer for this isn't as easy as most people believe it to be.

Still the question is very valid, if this could be crucial.

They have a version control system.

They have an internal issue tracking system.

I guess they don't have an automated build or even test system though.

ArmA1 and ArmA2 share the same codebase as you said, as far

as one can tell.

The CBTS provides excellent quality about issues in ArmA1 and I

guess these will be found in ArmA2 as well - its been the same

with OFP issues..

Yet BI decided not to make use of the potential.

Their reasoning could be based on the uncertainty and risk once

you are relying on others people work and effort.

In addition it is a huge effort to remain up to date about good

additions / changes / core ArmA fixes, as well as to scan these

in detail and to integrate it into their own product.

Once you see these ridiculous suggestions made by many many

people or the quixotic assumputions or missing knowledge about

technical / business related topics, you can easily see that is

by far not easy to use external help in this case.

The crucial point is to find and recruit the _right_ people for

these projects which would actually be useful.

BI did this with the closed ArmA1 beta test, the editing tools for

ArmA1, the ArmA1 patches, the cheating issues, dedicated

server and even now accepting direct feedback for ArmA2 by

certain people.

So yes they are doing it.

However ArmA and everything related to it are very complex and

a huge effort.

The question remains whether BI is cooperating with the right

people or if they are forgetting about also / more important part

/ people of their community or better customers, like

public gamers, fun gamers, non realism addicted gamers, league

gamers, tools developers, server hosters, server admins etc.

BI decided to keep on using mainly their own resource for the

(ultimate?) challenge with their next release (ArmA2).

However changing their perspective and view in certain areas

as well as using fan resources (more) in various ways would be

their big chance in my humble view.

You may not forget that BI recruits people from the

community for their company.

We will see how it turns out.

[bangtail 0]

TBH, ArmA 2 better be a d@mn fine game because what amounts to abandoning the unfinished ArmA in favour of a whole new game which basically looks like ArmA in a different locale will make or break Bohemia. Personally, I won't be buying ArmA 2 on release. I will wait to see what is said about it before I commit.

I strongly question the decision of a small, independant game developer to commit to a new game when the one they released less than a year ago in a quite frankly atrocious state is still far from perfect.

Good luck BIS, I think you'll need it.

E

[Madus_Maximus 0]

They started making "ArmA 2" before ArmA. They gave us ArmA to give us something more upto date to fill the gap, and they're not abaondoning it, they've said it themselves. They're going to continue to support it for a while untill ArmA 2 comes out then they'll slow down or stop support bar anything major.

[cain2001 0]

I would like to see a team put together to work on a mod which goal was to correct and fix the bugs that have been reported in. Things such as replacing the hit point system, the control of the helicopters, new sounds, adding new weapons, some new soldiers, different tanks (T-80 etc.) and all this with these implanted systems. Maybe even Low plants could be implanted as an option but the point is that there are some big problems that are easy fixed if people just started to communicate. This community basically made 99% of stuff that were used in OFP. BIS just gave out their engine, the rest was done by add-on and mission makers.

This community is like an angry mob trying to bring down the king, and I time it´s we do it. We can moan all we want but things seem to be the same but the fact remains. If we want to have our sweet game, we have to do it ourselves. When everyone are using the same basic mods, multiplayer will become a lot easier when it comes to finding good MP servers and hopefully new leagues will open their doors. I know it’s easy for me to say this because I really don’t have any experience in mod making but I am sure that with all the brains we have on this forum, it would just be a matter of a couple of months.

I really do enjoy the first couple of minutes in ArmA but then something tiny makes me quit. Its sad, very sad.

[chammy 7]

They started making "ArmA 2" before ArmA. They gave us ArmA to give us something more upto date to fill the gap, and they're not abaondoning it, they've said it themselves. They're going to continue to support it for a while untill ArmA 2 comes out then they'll slow down or stop support bar anything major.

If that were the case, why did they charge so much for it/?  And, why couldnt they have used the same graphics engine as GRAW did, its so much easier on computers and peple with computers that run on a 2.5 ghrz can run GRAW beautiflly where as even those with 3. , if you dont have a top noche graphics card its almost impossible to run ArmA correctly.  Yeah, I will wiat on purchasing AmrA2, I'm content so far with ArmA1, so many have worked hard to improve ArmA1 why waste money on something that will be just as good if not just as bad as the release of ArmA2?

[whisper 0]

They started making "ArmA 2" before ArmA. They gave us ArmA to give us something more upto date to fill the gap, and they're not abaondoning it, they've said it themselves. They're going to continue to support it for a while untill ArmA 2 comes out then they'll slow down or stop support bar anything major.

If that were the case, why did they charge so much for it/? And, why couldnt they have used the same graphics engine as GRAW did, its so much easier on computers and peple with computers that run on a 2.5 ghrz can run GRAW beautiflly where as even those with 3. , if you dont have a top noche graphics card its almost impossible to run ArmA correctly. Yeah, I will wiat on purchasing AmrA2, I'm content so far with ArmA1, so many have worked hard to improve ArmA1 why waste money on something that will be just as good if not just as bad as the release of ArmA2?

Because GRAW enginge can't do what Arma engine does and what BI wanted to do (ie large scale).

[mr reality 0]

Because GRAW enginge can't do what Arma engine does and what BI wanted to do (ie large scale).

So that's why they made Porto island for MP.... . I think even the GRAW engine could handle a larger enviroment than that.

[Madus_Maximus 0]

They made Porto for MP urban missions with more enterable buildings and bigger urban areas than bigger islands would have handled performance wise.

[evilnate 0]

Okay here goes my official complaint after playing this game non-stop since the german release.

In OFP, it was MUCH easier to have things work in MP when it comes to designing missions. I am guessing all of these problems are related to BI "streamlining" the net code. Granted it's possible that there ARE indeed ways to get the alarm trigger to play for everyone that should hear it, but it's humbling to strip the wiki, forums, and friends only to read "oh that bug has been around since OFP". Getting a AI controlled UH-60 to land seems impossible too, and I think I've tried everything short of installing someone's set of script files to import and implement just to get the f&*king thing to land for extraction!!

I used to have a feeling that anything could be thought up and done in OFP, but now it feels like I should take some drugs to dumb down my imagination levels to make another kill everyone in the base/town mission and end without proper extraction.. Or maybe take even more drugs and play evolution (NO OFFENSE EVO FANS I AM JUST SICK OF IT!! ) for f&*king ever!!!

Sure i've spent a full 12-hour-a-day-week making a kick-butt mission for my friends and arma community that has plenty of color and fun only to spend another week researching why things don't work in MP/COOP mode. Sure you devils at BI make us click the disclaimer about multiplayer mode sucking everytime we join. Please let me know if you are going to fix arma's multiplayer mess? OFP was fine in my opinion, keep the graphics, lose the chitty netcode (if that's the whole SP/MP mission problem.)

-Valuable Customer & fanboi

P.S. I am serious about the question suma, PM me.

*edit* Now that I feel better I think some of the problems have something to do with locality of scripts... or something.

[Second 0]

Whole MP selection in ArmA feels like... Retarted. I look at server list and feel sad.

Back in the days with OFP, i could go to server and to play some mission which had somekind idea of combatsituation, expacely in coop. There might be convoy under attack, while other player did try to get there to save the convoy and we (the convoy) tried to repel enemy attacks and fall back. Or PvP missions with some kind of sense, background AND NO RESPAWN! There was lame CTFs and stuff, but not much... Atleast when i was around (not very much afterall, i got internet connection in 2006).

What about now? Just retarted selection of same mission with little bit of different setting (same crap in different package). Respawn is major fun/entertainment killer: I die, wait 30 sec and there i go again ready to be killed. PvP is just sad killing-killing-killing-factory inside some #$¤%£ arena. And sadly good PvP is basically the only thing i look from MP. I don't care coop nowdays anymore because AI just sucks.

[enven 0]

My bitching is involved with calibrating my gfx settings w/the 8800gts, I get CTD almost each time I play for time around 1hour or more...Nothing horrifying, but I'd like to know what the shit I need to do to fix this!

As well; I want a patch...damnit.

[.kju 3240]

@Second:

Ever thought of playing in some ArmA PvP league like ESL or ECL?

[nichevo 2]

In OFP, it was MUCH easier to have things work in MP when it comes to designing missions.

Yes! I experienced this problem. I am very glad I am not alone.

I used to have a feeling that anything could be thought up and done in OFP, but now it feels like I should take some drugs to dumb down my imagination levels to make another kill everyone in the base/town mission and end without proper extraction..

Yes again! Making a mission in ArmA is painful. Every little feature you add becomes a brick wall against which you slam your head. Getting past each brick wall is a mixture of workaround and cutting back on ideas. Needless to say, a really clever mission design becomes horribly disfigured after the dozen workarounds/cutbacks have been applied.

What's most frustrating is that it wasn't this way in OFP. I used to love making missions in OFP. It didn't have a "brick wall" problem.

Sure i've spent a full 12-hour-a-day-week making a kick-butt mission for my friends and arma community that has plenty of color and fun only to spend another week researching why things don't work in MP/COOP mode.

Yes for the third time! The absolute worst is when you take a scripting concept that worked flawlessly in OFP, apply it to ArmA, and discover it is now horribly broken.

I've only ever made one ArmA mission. I do not have the sanity to make any more. I am really glad I consciously decided to make my "first" mission very simple and straightforward, otherwise I may never have finished it at all.

I bring up that mission because in its original design the players started with a jeep. In that jeep was random equipment for the mission at hand. It was an important design feature -- I wanted to up the replayablity factor along the lines of, "how can we complete objective X without equpment Y but plenty of equipment Z." Simple concept, I used it many times in OFP.

Yet when I first tested the mission co-op, I told my testing buddy, "maybe you should have the sniper rifle from the jeep." He replied, "what sniper rifle? I can only see an AK-74."

I tried various things to fix this. And while I don't pretend it's impossible to do, I could not figure it out. It's a real pain testing for multiplayer sync bugs because at best it requires you to use 2 PCs or run two instances of ArmA on one PC (which is a pain). At worst you need to persuade your buddies to come into a server and read out what equipment they see in the jeep this time (a royal pain).

The short of it is that it's a horrible thing to test. In the end I gave up and just loaded the jeep with standard, non-random list of gear.

Enough of my ranting. I have a question for those of you who play a lot of custom-made missions. Are ArmA custom-made multiplayer missions "dumbed down" (or, at least, more simplistic) relative to OFP missions of the same type?

The reason I ask is because I want to know: is it possible for a mission maker to eventually learn and become proficient at the harsher world of ArmA multiplayer mission making?

[Dudester 0]

I used to make alot of missions for Ofp, be it Coop or CTF. I was horrified when i attempted to do the same and make a mission for Arma. Not only because it had taken me somthing like 16 hours to make, but i found after i made it that my game would continually keep crashing. I didn't try making another after that.

[Second 0]

@Second:

Ever thought of playing in some ArmA PvP league like ESL or ECL?

Joining squad is problem. Being familyman and having job which generally disables me from that kind dedication or presence which squads (and many other things) requires. In other words: i might have a moment for MP or then not and i can't tell it untill i'm living in that moment.

Atleast i'm in impression that leagues are squads-only activity, one just don't go there and play.

[.kju 3240]

Agreed Second - priorities are clear.

And yes most ArmA leagues are made for squads in mind and

require a certain level of "dedication / commitment", yet

a) some league like IC ArmA don't AFAIK (that much at least)

b) it is always up to the squad itself how to handle your time and

commitment restriction. Many teams are very happy about any

support / kind of reinforcement. The crucial thing is to talk to each

other, try to find an agreement how to handle your situation and

things could turn out how you like them.

One needs to try of course.

[jantenner 0]

it seems arma is really good for fake military photos.

maybe that should have been the main selling point marketing wise.