ArmA is just ... disappointing

[mac81 0]

I really wanted to like Armed Assult but at the end of the day it's left me disapointed. The graphics are the only significant improvement over OFP.

It has the same unwieldly interface as OFP. A menu totally controlled by the mouse is needed.

The AI is rubbish, seeing a squad attacked reminds me of a Ants nest stirred up as they run around in circles. They make no use of cover and happily walk down the middle of the road. Leading a patrol I really want detonatable explosives on each of my squad members so I can respond approparitey when they get lost.

Playing just feels like an effort with little fluidity in movement or changing posture. It feels much smoother and playabe in GRAW.

The animations are not detailed enough, they still look like robots but a least that suits their voices. Full body swiveling on the spot while lying down is unforgivable.

Really things have moved on since 2001. I just hope Arma2 is better but I certainly won't be preordering.

Completely agree...!

sad but true!

I'll wait for dragon rising to see if Codmaster will be able to make a better job.

Also waiting for ArmA-2 and hope to see BIG improvements!

But for the moment continue with ArmA because sometimes you can see interesting things coming out

[DaSquade 0]

Yes, ArmA has dissapointed me (a bit). It got hyped as we all WANTED it to be the next gen game. But it was clearly said by BIS, well maybe here and there between the lines, ArmA would be a 'in-between' product.

It is strange, i often find out myself, how fast we forget what ArmA actually brought as new features. From what i can see, most of the things aren't directly seen and again fastly getting taking as normal.

Few examples:

-JIP.

-DX9.

-Multiple gunner turrets.

-New animation skeleton.

-Streaming terrain.

Just to name a few....

Ok for most this doesn't sound a mayor deal, but afaik this was a (big) step for BIS and not something that has been done in two days. I consider ArmAs current engine upgrade as a test bet for the next engine.

Fact is, ArmA introduced a new jacket (controles, gameplay, grafics etc). It is just a mather of forgetting what we had (OFP-VBS1) and move on and get used to what we now have.

The saying: 'in my day, this were much better..' comes to my mind .

I can say i did left my ArmA untached for a few weeks....but having a good (semi-closed) server with friend i know i can say the feeling it back. Nothing beats a good weekend MP session with good teamplay and coms, no mather how many flaws the game has and how retarded the AI is .

[vilas 473]

i don't play ARMA for few months, but what was for me dissapointing i wrote many times

it was and it is still advertised as military simulator, what kind of simulation it is if i can destroy BMP, M113 with 5.56 bullets or assault rifle (10-15 magazines)

what military simulation we are talking about if there is no bullet proof materials, if care explode and burn after some shots in doors, why man is killed by single shot from rifle into his feet

even is Stalker there something like bleeding to death

in COD2 i saw better balistics

i had big expecations with ARMA, but i get "eye candy" with many bugs, like AI not obeying orders, like horrible pathfinding, soldiers getting lost in city, there is no camera in editor, etc. etc.

making missions and playing OFP was fun, in ARMA no !

single soldier left group to engage, all group die one by one

AI has super knowledge

Codemasters will do OFP2 in 2010 :/ i wish to see something in 1985

[Dudester 0]

Fact is, ArmA introduced a new jacket (controles, gameplay, grafics etc). It is just a mather of forgetting what we had (OFP-VBS1) and move on and get used to what we now have.

Fact is, Bis made this out to be a sequel to ofp. So everyone expected the gameplay to stay relatively the same. Yes they expected a graphics update and some of the ofp bugs finally ironed out, but no way, did the old ofp faithfull, expect this.

When you change a games gameplay it is nolonger related to its predisesor (ofp in this case). The only thing that this game has in common with ofp is the fact its a war game. Lets face it. The Controls/Graphics/Gameplay have all changed. Hell, EA might just aswell of said Battlefield 2 was a sequal to ofp.

The feel of a game is what makes or breaks it. Bis decided to break it and all i can say to that is, listen in future. No point setting up a forum and asking people what they want in the game, if your not going to listen.

I also feel that i am wasting my breath here writing this to be honest. I mean how many people's posts here in this thread? and what has changed. Its not like the good old days when somone from Bis would comment. There just is no comment now. There are to many complaints to comment on.

I just hope this can get better before the community (if you can call it that now) completely dies its death. If i was Bis. I would seriously look at who's going to buy Arma 2 when Arma 1 has all these problems. Are they going to look at the Ofp community again? 

[DaSquade 0]

Well maybe to take you on your words (no offence ):

Quote[/b] ]sequel to ofp

Quote[/b] ]its predisesor (ofp in this case)

Fact:

My DVD box says

Quote[/b] ]Das neue meisterwerk der "Operation Flashpoint" -Macher

Doesn't sounds as sequel nor predisesor to me .

Quote[/b] ]ofp

From what i know, "OFP' is a copyrighted game name of Codemasters. Since the contract was 'broken', i think in some way it is no longer allowed to link OFP with ArmA. I know weak stuff, but again what i wanted to point out earlier. Forget and forgive the past. Who knows, maybe Codermasters had the rights of the gameplay aswell and BIS was forced to make it as it is now .

Anyway, no need to convince me. I know how you feel, but i moved on and take the best of it. For me it isn't actually the gameplay itself (flaws-bugs), it is the teamplay/feel in combination with what we currently have that still makes it all worth it to spend my weekend on this virtual dru6.

But keep in mind and lets face it, BIS isn't your EA or even Codemasters development team that has incomes from multiple sources. It was mentioned (correct me if wrong) BIS confesses it is a small player in the game development world. If you be realistic for a sec, i think we can thank the guy upstairs there was even a 'sequel' to put it in your words. Lets hope our wishes doesn't make it impossible for BIS to give us a true sequel of ArmA (->2) and that time they adjusted and added what went wrong with ArmA.

PS: It isn't the end of the world yet and in the end, the doors has finally been opend it looks now other game developers has seen the light of this genre. So there is hope...but might be an idea to find a new hobby or lifepartner is all goes wrong .

PS2: Is there a BIS rehab? Maybe a nice game title..ArmA2: the rehab .

[aef.born2die 0]

ArmA has been uninstalled from my system.

I really wanted to like the game, but found the game engine to be cumbersome and buggy.

Servers in Australia refused to host the in-game voice comms as it added too much stress to their server load, thus removing what might have been one of the better features in the game.

First impressions count, and BIS dropped the ball when they released ArmA before it was ready. I appreciate that it may have been done as a revenue raiser, but in the long term people will remember the problems they had from day one, and harbour those ill feelings in the long term.

The way BIS handled the ArmA release has put me on my guard against future BIS releases, and I certainly will not be buying ArmA 2 (or whatever it's called) until the community has finished debugging the BIS code for them.

Hopefully there have been some lessons learned from this exercise and their next launch will be a huge success, winning back the confidence and the dollar bills of the gaming community.

[vilas 473]

Quote[/b] ]until the community has finished debugging the BIS code for them

yes, hahaha

it was me who first made choppers using not guided (FFAR, ZUNI) rockets firing agains land targets, i don't remember in which patch it was made by developer

it was small mistake in config, but for some months only my addon choppers (UH-60, Mi-17, UH-6) were using weapons against land targets

funny, game was released like this and some patches before haven't fixed it

BIS in my opinion spent too much time on graphics, too few time on engine and AI

when i was buying ARMA i was hoping to get "fixed" and more realistic OFP, but i get another kind of "product" :/

i don't use ARMA for some months , soon i plan to make format c: , probably i will not instal this again

what made me angry, very angry is:

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....t=68991

i spent a hell of money (as in case of my poor country) for PC for ARMA and it was really big effort to buy it, and something like this

BIS released only some models in MLOD, if they would release at least many soldiers models,

i was really expecting other situations with next game after OFP than i received

[Zadoff1880 0]

Hey, I've heared that BIS had sold something like 1 000 000 copies of OFP, but how many ArmA-s did they sell? Any idea?

On one russian forum one suspecious guy said that they were able to sell something like 100 000 copies only... Is that right?

So it's 10 to 1 compared to OFP?

[NeMeSiS 11]

Hey, I've heared that BIS had sold something like 1 000 000 copies of OFP, but how many ArmA-s did they sell? Any idea?

On one russian forum one suspecious guy said that they were able to sell something like 100 000 copies only... Is that right?

So it's 10 to 1 compared to OFP?

Just 100000 is unlikely, the game hit the top charts in multiple countries and was number 1 for some time in Germany.

BI has planned to release ArmA2 in summer 2008, so you can try to estimate how much money they need to keep their company running untill then, that would be a 'minimum'. And it's probably a bit more..

Anyways, we have no official numbers. (AFAIK)

[.kju 3239]

Quote[/b] ]was number 1 for some time in Germany.

That is not correct AFAIK. It was only for a few days..

Anyway thats only pure speculation here. ArmA by far didn't sell

that good like OFP did.

If BI has learnt the right lessons, will become obvious with ArmA2 I guess..

[DaSquade 0]

Also don't forget Germany (morph) was the first place or first real release version after the Czech one. So lots of copy weren't actually bought to stay in Germany as lots got sended out across the globe. Guess that put Germany on the map...

On a side note: sell number also don't reflect actual buyers. Meaning, some copys are still collecting dust as we speak, but in the end somehow don't mather for BIS as the money is in (no pointing finguers etc)...just a fact.

[=JoKeR= 0]

Armed Assault 2:If we see the "Bis" it's already too late

we feels better

[chops 111]

Armed Assault 2:If we see the "Bis" it's already too late

we feels better

Nice!!

I wonder how many people are looking forward to Codemasters OFP2 compared with BIS's Arma 2?

[seba1976 98]

It was mentioned (correct me if wrong) BIS confesses it is a small player in the game development world. If you be realistic for a sec, i think we can thank the guy upstairs there was even a 'sequel' to put it in your words.

I was quiet for a bit and will keep so, but please enlighten me on this. Are we talking about the same company that has a contract with the armed forces of more than one country? I mean, I know I might have missed something - specifically the relation between BIS and some fuzzy australian counterpart, I know little about that. But allow me to add this to the conversation, IF BIS has found a place as a military contractor of some sort, then there is no way they have money problems of any kind, specially if they have the US military as a client. If BIS is in the interest of the US military they will take good care of it.

Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but I have not seen any indication that the reason behind the now famous quote "we came to a point where it was to release this as it was or not releasing at all", was money problems. If someone can give more information about the subject please do, but from where I stand it seems to me that the thing was only a question of continuing releasing games for the general public and the troblesome PCs or concentrating on their promising new clients, the armed and security forces. If that were the case, no one can blame BIS for their charity.

This is something I really want to clarify, so if someone has facts that complete this picture or change it, please let me know. I won't argue, I'll be thankful  .

Cheers.

[Baff1 0]

Military contracts won't earn them the big bucks.

How many copies of Virtual Battlespace do you think they are selling?

100? 1,000?

And what percentage does the sales team take of each sale?

Obviously it pays well enough to keep a small crew of programmers in work.

But it is no worldwide distributed multi-million selling high street sensation. (Operation Flashpoint was). Armed Assault isn't either.

1,000,000 sales @ $50 > 1,000 sales @$500

Military sales, Lmao. No one at BIS is retiring on that one anytime soon.

[Zadoff1880 0]

FROM:

http://www.oblivion-lost.de/index.php?zone=design2〈=en

Some info about yet another recent & disappointing game S.T.A.L.K.E.R. - reminds me of ArmA in many ways...

(srry, if this is too old)

"The german print magazine GameStar describes this as the normal development of a game in a extensively article in their current issue with the title "GameStar: 'Game publishers let their customers down'" (ArmA!!!. On four sides they talk about the question why the mentality of current developers and publishers to declare games to finals (unofficialy) after their release and innumerable patches becomes more and more popular. They especially talk about S.T.A.L.K.E.R. and worked together with Oleg Yavorsky, senior PR manager of GSC Game World and Ralf Adam, an independent producer and development advisor to report as close-to-reality as possible.

So the repairing of a bug and also the development of a patch goes through different levels which can be divided into four areas: bundle (collect bug reports), solve (repair the bug), check (developer checks the quality) and adapt (other language versions have to run with the patch). From the beginning till the end of such a patch there are not only different development departments and much money but also so called "traffic levels". These are days or even weeks when a patch is for example send to the QA- department (quality assurance) of the publisher but when they have to work on other things the patch has to wait. Days or weeks without communication between developer and publisher are the reasons for a lack of understanding and frustration. But it is so easy to prevent this.

All in all: We can recommend the article because it gives a new point of view to both parties: developer/publisher and also customer. You can find the article in the current issue 11/2007 of the GameStar magazine, which can be bought since some days, The first of the four sides can also be found as an german-languaged online preview on GameStar.de. You don't need to search for it, just follow the link in our related links."

[Marshal 0]

u so naive man

{evil grin over XBOX360 live game patches}

ehem! naive? at least XBox patches work, and are only a few megabytes to download which take seconds to install. And games that need patches for the 360 only need one patch and not several like OFP needed and no doubt which ARMA will need too. And they work with the original game disc too. Can you please explain (because obviously your not naive right?) why the ARMA patches are incompatible with my original ARMA disc?

And Dwarden, can I ask why your being so sarcastic towards me? Lets just say this - ARMA wouldn't even get released on the XBox 360 because Microsoft has a quality control which means that incomplete games and crappy games simply don't get released.

The same wasn't the case for the original XBox console, which OFP was released on, and at the time I wrote an honest review of it which was heavily slated by people here. But, in the end it looks like the vast majority are pointing out the same faults in ARMA as I pointed out in the XBox version of OFP.

And finally, somebody wrote a little while ago about BIS claiming they will release an 'anti cheat' patch. Well, sorry to disappoint everybody, but you wont stop the cheating. BIS NEVER supported or released any patch to combat cheating in the original OFP and didn't listen to the concerns of people like myself (who ran OFP's biggest league at the time), so why does anyone think they are going to change their ways now when they have a buggy game distributed by a 3rd rate publisher?

[Maddmatt 1]

Can you please explain (because obviously your not naive right?) why the ARMA patches are incompatible with my original ARMA disc?

Because you have the wrong version of the patch? They all worked for me.

If you have problems, then you can go to the troubleshooting thread to get help.

This is just the thread for people to whine without bothering us in the other topics, not the place to get help

[Marshal 0]

Yes I did have the correct patch. The European version - it would have told me right from the start anyway if it were the US version right?

You don't have to make excuses for sloppy programming.

[Maddmatt 1]

Yes I did have the correct patch. The European version - it would have told me right from the start anyway if it were the US version right?

You don't have to make excuses for sloppy programming.

Sloppy programming? Well I haven't experienced the "sloppy programming" your talking about, even though I ran the same program. So maybe there is more to the problem

Anyway, if you want help then go to the troubleshooting section. But if you would rather just complain here and get no help, fine with me.

[Heatseeker 0]

ARMA wouldn't even get released on the XBox 360 because Microsoft has a quality control which means that incomplete games and crappy games simply don't get released.

That might be true and there are many things in Arma that could have been done better or atleast improved over OPF, i also feel a level of disapointment about a few things but wont overlook the things they have done well.

So i'll tell you this:

You can show me a big pile of your high quality, highly polished and expensive xbox 360 games and i doubt there is one game i'd pick over Arma, just like that.

And... if no games existed other than your high quality and super polished, generic 360 games i would most likely quit gaming out of boredom.

So in my view releasing Arma and supporting (patching up) it was definetly worth it and for me Arma beats all those self proclaimed AAA titles out there .

[Marshal 0]

ARMA wouldn't even get released on the XBox 360 because Microsoft has a quality control which means that incomplete games and crappy games simply don't get released.

That might be true and there are many things in Arma that could have been done better or atleast improved over OPF, i also feel a level of disappointment about a few things but wont overlook the things they have done well.

So i'll tell you this:

You can show me a big pile of your high quality, highly polished and expensive xbox 360 games and i doubt there is one game i'd pick over Arma, just like that.

And... if no games existed other than your high quality and super polished, generic 360 games i would most likely quit gaming out of boredom.

So in my view releasing Arma and supporting (patching up) it was definetly worth it and for me Arma beats all those self proclaimed AAA titles out there .

Hmmm, so what your saying is that you don't want your computer games to progress? You don't want to play next-generation games? Is that just because you have a low spec computer or that your biased against console gaming without even giving it a try?

Maybe go and have a game of COD4 or Rainbow Six Vegas? You might just change your mind.

360 games are no more expensive than PC games in most cases and remember that a 360 costs a lot cheaper than the price of an equivalent PC machine. So for the difference you would spend on your equivalent PC machine, I could go and buy 5 games and play them straight out of the box with no compatibility issues. Also remember that every game that comes out on the 360 is the finished product - not some 70% finished game that has come out early to please the publisher.

We don't have all these stupid hassles of having to keep buying and upgrading graphic cards, memory and soundcards because our machines run everything that is out for the format. We are all enjoying the same game, with the same experience and paid about half the money what a PC player would have to pay out these days to get a half decent PC.

You are entitled to your viewpoint of course, and I wouldnt want to take you away from the game that you love - but having done the same myself with OFP and having had to endure the crap with what comes with it (some of the community and the broken game engine) I would take the 360 over an PC any day, and I'm a person who has played PC games since the mid 80's!

But, if you dont buy any of what I just said above - here is the biggest plus of all. NO CHEATERS!!!!

[Maddmatt 1]

Maybe go and have a game of COD4 or Rainbow Six Vegas? You might just change your mind.

Another PC vs console argument. I like PCs more, and that's not going to change. Anyway. I would also pick ArmA over those console games that are over in a few days. I've played Call of Duty and R6Vegas, but how long until you've finished them? A few days. There are no mods. Nothing like what you get for ArmA.

Having a PC vs console argument here is pointless, especially because you are on the forum of a PC game.

Anyway, you obviously couldn't be bothered to get the problems you are experiencing sorted out and would rather complain here. Oh well

Not saying ArmA is perfect. But it's still a great game to me

Anyway I'm gonna get some sleep.

[Marshal 0]

Actually, online playing is where the 360 really comes into its own. I have played Rainbow Six Vegas since its release, I played Call Of Duty 2 online for exactly a year - almost every night, until its sequel was released, and having been involved with the COD4 beta testing, there is no doubt that I will be playing that till at least this time next year.

I buy a game to play straight away personally. I don't see the point why a game community should have to come onto the game makers site to ask for them to fix it.

My copy of ARMA went back to the shop today and I got a refund. Companies who rush games and give false promises do not deserve my hard earned cash when I can spend it on games that I can load up instantly and play for several months online with no hassles.

But your right, I didn't come here to compare the PC to console gaming because its a no contest. PCs are word processors converted to play games. Consoles are built solely for the purpose of playing games.

And in most cases, consoles are of a lower spec to a PC and yet can run games much better, so its really in the architecture of how the game is built. Think of the many video cards and system specs that pc game manufacturers have to adapt their games to play on and its no wonder why so many problems arise.

As a games buyer, it shouldn't be up to me to write to BIS asking why their game doesn't work - especially when the fault arises because their supposedly 'official' patches are not compatible with the original game code on the retail version of ARMA. When installing the 1.4 to 1.5 patch I received at least 5 errors on files which were supposedly corrupt from the original install (which had been installed just 5 minutes earlier).

Anyway, I have said my piece. ARMA was exactly how I expected it to be - an unfinished product which I very much doubt will be fixed, no matter how many patches are released. I mean, just look at OFP as a good example. A 6 year old game that still has more bugs than any other game I have ever played despite all the patches.

[Zedfragg 0]

You shouldn't have to worry about MODS being released for a game...

I play both PC and Xbox titles and I gotta say I may have completed RS:Vegas and owned it but the multiplayer never gets old...

As for ArmA...I found myself hacked by constant issues with compatiblitys and i have a new machine...

I love arma don't get me wrong...But at release there wasn't enough improvment for me to say

"YES...The new OFP!!!..."

Instead i said

"....F*** this, I'm getting a 360"

In my opinion ArmA wasn't even EQUAL to OFP....

-Flawed graphics

-Flawed textures

-Flawed performance

-Flawed damage models

-Unoptimized game code (Memory leaks and un-required gamecode staying loaded-and yes i know what i'm doing )

-Unstable network code (on release)

It had a few improvements

-It didn't have starforce (UK)

-um....i know there are more improvements but i'm tired.

And i mainly got a x360 so i could play online with my bro and don't you start moaning about the 5 quid a month i know its a ripoff but its worth it to have a quality game online with me bro.

And yes ok you can't get mods for games...which is a pain in the backside.

But...at least you don't have to worry about anything when playing online with 360's...

Well other than constant fear of the "ring of death" or other console destorying issues like it just blowing up (it is made by microsoft after all...its probs been programmed to kill me in my sleep lol)

There are some performance issues in some games and if theres so much as a grain of dust on some games (AKA TES:Oblivion) the frame rate rips to about 15fps.

But i've never encounted a problem otherwise and theres more choice of games on the console.

Easier way to put it is this...

PC = total realistic tactical combat

Consoles = Choice of so many different types of games it becomes accessable to everyone...even my girlfriend!! lol

So how bout we call of the PC vs console war and just say its even lol

Zed