ArmA is just ... disappointing

[Major Fubar 0]

So much about the Major Fubar's words in this topic a few pages behind that "I will treat any calling someone a whiner exactly the same as calling someone a fanboy: flaming", I'm not naive anymore; this will NEVER happen here.

If you could get off you high horse for a moment, I can assure you that if I had gotten here beofre the comments were changed I would have treated them exactly as I would if it was a "fanboy" comment.

Also, for someone so concerned about forum rules and their enforcement, you seem to have overlooked one:

Quote[/b] ]§18) No public discussion on how the forum is moderated

If you have questions/complaints/comments about the board or moderators please PM them to a moderator, we will do our utmost to reply to any that we receive. If you have an issue that you feel cannot be solved by another moderator then please PM the head moderator (Shadow), he will be happy to look into the matter.

If we constantly have to keep warning and punishing people in the praise/complaint threads, they will be locked.

[karantan 0]

Absolutely no need to pick on me Major Fubar, as I said already, I was not the one who's promised that the 'both sides' will be treated equally, and that all further 'fanboy' and 'whiner' flamings will be punished. The fact is that the 'whiners' flaming was done, it was reported to the mods, and the offender was just warned thru the PM, so he later changed the 'incriminated' word. And as I said, if there would be an oposite case (a 'fanboy' flaming), there would be no friendly PM warning or whatever, but a +1WL in a blink of an eye and some more (PR).

You've somewhere just paraphrased Placebo; "these forums are not a democracy", and I totally agree. But, who makes them such? You know, from a high horse is a wide view ...

Also, for someone so concerned about forum rules and their enforcement, you seem to have overlooked one:

Quote[/b] ]§18) No public discussion on how the forum is moderated

If you have questions/complaints/comments about the board or moderators please PM them to a moderator, we will do our utmost to reply to any that we receive. If you have an issue that you feel cannot be solved by another moderator then please PM the head moderator (Shadow), he will be happy to look into the matter.

A typical mod's hiding paravan used again ,,, why you just don't quit the sherade and tell me (with a new box or something) to STFU.

[seba1976 98]

If we constantly have to keep warning and punishing people in the praise/complaint threads, they will be locked.

Be my guess. But this topic is for the benefit of Mr. BIS. If you close it, the frustration it embody will end up in more people dropping their hopes - and their copies of ArmA. If the topic stays open, there is a chance for BIS to keep working out their problems.

[seba1976 98]

seba!!!    Easy my friend, if you'll go on with such kind of broad elaboration of ArmA flaws, even if only with a game design related ones, you'll end up writing a book    *and you'll earn a title of an uber whiner from the subjects like that one above*

I bow to your willingness and readyness to make such broad explanations.

,,, I think we should separate the things that are design decisions from the bugs, because in some cases, BIS is trying to fix bugs in the code that even when working as intended, will let down many people.

Dead on mate, and

Quote[/b] ]There are many more to me, and I'll try to list them later.

I'm looking forward to it.

Would that title make me the Anti-Dslyecxi or something like that?   Anyway, I don't really say much in the forums, so I guess I've earned some credit for a long post once in a while . I'll list more design decisions if I get in the mood, problem is, I'm not playing the game for now, so will see.

[ralphwiggum 6]

Absolutely no need to pick on me Major Fubar, as I said already, I was not the one who's promised that the 'both sides' will be treated equally, and that all further 'fanboy' and 'whiner' flamings will be punished. The fact is that the 'whiners' flaming was done, it was reported to the mods, and the offender was just warned thru the PM, so he later changed the 'incriminated' word. And as I said, if there would be an oposite case (a 'fanboy' flaming), there would be no friendly PM warning or whatever, but a +1WL in a blink of an eye and some more (PR).

You've somewhere just paraphrased Placebo; "these forums are not a democracy", and I totally agree. But, who makes them such? You know, from a high horse is a wide view ...

Also, for someone so concerned about forum rules and their enforcement, you seem to have overlooked one:

Quote[/b] ]§18) No public discussion on how the forum is moderated

If you have questions/complaints/comments about the board or moderators please PM them to a moderator, we will do our utmost to reply to any that we receive. If you have an issue that you feel cannot be solved by another moderator then please PM the head moderator (Shadow), he will be happy to look into the matter.

A typical mod's hiding paravan used again ,,, why you just don't quit the sherade and tell me (with a new box or something) to STFU.

ok.

here's the break down.

You are nothing but a whiner that is interested in trying to be the "debater", when you cannot even do that correctly. We are not forcing you to post here, and if you don't have the will power to do so, I'll be more than happy to help you. How about a perm PR? Why, you are welcome!

[xnodunitx 0]

If we constantly have to keep warning and punishing people in the praise/complaint threads, they will be locked.

Be my guess. But this topic is for the benefit of Mr. BIS. If you close it, the frustration it embody will end up in more people dropping their hopes - and their copies of ArmA. If the topic stays open, there is a chance for BIS to keep working out their problems.

Not really.

This thread has turned from dissapointment to a bashing.

A bit of negative response is not so harmful, it encourages the producer to improve and to get better. But that does not mean cheering on hurts either.

By telling the producer that its great, it builds a bit of esteem and pride, now too much can of course go to their head, however alittle helps to give that extra drive, let them know others are enjoying it and to continue pleasing them. While at the same time, the negative feedback would help them to want to make their product even better.

But thats not what this has turned into, when a negative point has been made, there is no need to bring it up again and again and again and again and again and again. It becomes persistently annoying and can make the producer just want to give up because there is no pleasing these people.

So when you lot toss negative feedback this way and that, just remember. Alittle is not bad, too much is disastrous.

[W0lle 1046]

What disappoints me most is the total absence of any scheduling.

Or at last this is the impression I got after reading through this board.

The developer team seems to be overstrained and I'am afraid somewhat planless.

On one day they're saying they are working on a linux server, another they are "just finishing the tools". Not to mention the big gap between European and US release.

This post shows one more time that people bashing BI for just anything that comes to their mind have no idea about what's going on at BI at all.

Have you ever considered that there is more then one development team? Maybe one for the tools, and one for the game. I guess not.

And the only planless people I see here are posting in this topic about stuff that has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the original topic.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]and the offender was just warned thru the PM, so he later changed the 'incriminated' word. And as I said, if there would be an oposite case (a 'fanboy' flaming), there would be no friendly PM warning or whatever, but a +1WL in a blink of an eye and some more (PR).

To clarify:

I sent 4in1 a pm regarding the useage of the word "whiner", as I would warn anyone I like if he/she is about to get him/herself into trouble. As it turned out he was not aware that Fubar announced sanctions against the useage of the word and therefore removed the expression.

Now making up a mod-conspiracy out of all that is simply dead wrong.

[sickboy 13]

This post shows one more time that people bashing BI for just anything that comes to their mind have no idea about what's going on at BI at all.

Have you ever considered that there is more then one development team? Maybe one for the tools, and one for the game. I guess not.

And the only planless people I see here are posting in this topic about stuff that has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the original topic.

I have been breaking my head about these issues and finally came to a conclussion:

BI leaves too much open to imagination OR the information is so well hidden away in Interview 349 in Czech Games Magazine XX....

I am uncertain how other companies do this, but to get away from this "assuming" standard, I think a better information flow, possibly news letter, possibly webpage with weekly updated info or whatsoever might be a good idea. I heard about Developper blogs before, these might be handy too.

I know that with some extra effort, different info is findable but it's not in everyone's nature to be the info-dig-specialist..

I know this is off-topic when it comes to the thread title, though it adds up to the current topic of past posts.

[Major Fubar 0]

If we constantly have to keep warning and punishing people in the praise/complaint threads, they will be locked.

Be my guess. But this topic is for the benefit of Mr. BIS. If you close it, the frustration it embody will end up in more people dropping their hopes - and their copies of ArmA. If the topic stays open, there is a chance for BIS to keep working out their problems.

I honestly agree, it's just a shame that some people can't seem to post criticisms of the game in a mature, civilised manner, or without flaming other members.

No one is trying to stifle people from making legit comments about problems with the game, only to do it in a reasonable manner.

[smiley nick 51]

What disappoints me most is the total absence of any scheduling.

Or at last this is the impression I got after reading through this board.

The developer team seems to be  overstrained and I'am afraid somewhat planless.

On one day they're saying they are working on a linux server, another they are "just finishing the tools". Not to mention the big gap between European and US release.

This post shows one more time that people bashing BI for just anything that comes to their mind have no idea about what's going on at BI at all.

Have you ever considered that there is more then one development team? Maybe one for the tools, and one for the game. I guess not.

And the only planless people I see here are posting in this topic about stuff that has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the original topic.  

Have you ever considered that there is not an abundant of people working in all these so called development team departments?

We all know BIS are a small Indy company, And let’s face it, the tools must of been ready for them to make the actual content for ArmA. Or are you happy to say they used the old o2 and workarounds that the community is doing now?

I am not disappointed with arma, but i believe it could have been a lot better without being modded once again. Perhaps BIS are now "expecting" the community to do the fixes. Because we are all so loyal to the cause.

A few things I am disappointed about for the game.

1.) The lack of Variations of grass types, at the moment the whole island is covered in the same grass, and looks very unnatural. We need some more variations to break up the terrain.

This could feature, longer grass, short grass around urban areas, fields of crops, heather, and small grass clumps to break up the terrain. (Similar to inv44), but "as standard" to the game.

2.) The AI debate, ofp had hundreds of AI enhancements scripts, which really did make it feel like a new game (an obvious example is WGL or SLX).

Obviously BIS cant take the original codes, but they could at least of looked to see what people really wanted with what the talented people did, and try and implement it. Such as allowing the AI to seek proper cover, or a few simple codes to make them feel "dug in" behind cover. Such as pinning the player down. Giving the player something more than a turkey shoot.

And how hard can it be to make suppressive fire a standalone feature in the game?

3.) The very similar and frustrating visual of viewing tanks and their very strange driving skill behaviour. Why do the tank drivers want to face the direction the enemy is facing? Can we not let the turret do that? (That’s why you get the strange spinning behaviour)

Knocking down trees, bins, sign posts and god knows what.

Instead of making hordes of tanks to act as a considerable force, it might be better to code a single tank first. Not only to feel more realistic, but it would also help frame rates in missions

It feels to me, BIS lacked the one thing that made them who they are, and that’s game-play. ArmA totally lacks atmosphere and game play for me, Something OFP did very well.

Just my thoughts, doesn’t mean im right.

Nick

[mattxr 9]

Yeah i left this thread a long time ago to play some nice coops which all in all turn out to be great so i dont think that this game is Disappointing imo people i have the choice to either go play some great games or just and complain in these fourms.

Now the question is.. What will you! choose

[Rhodite 3]

Yeah i left this thread a long time ago to play some nice coops which all in all turn out to be great so i dont think that this game is Disappointing imo people i have the choice to either go play some great games or just and complain in these fourms.

Now the question is.. What will you! choose  

Spot on.

Complaining shouting whining etc.. simply isnt going to motivate anyone.

Most of you are speculating the reasons and thats all it is.

Like many MANY mod groups have said in the past (refering to the tools in this instance) they will be ready when they are ready.

By all means share your gripes re the GAME in this thread but keep it to that thankyou.

[Danbri 0]

This post shows one more time that people bashing BI for just anything that comes to their mind have no idea about what's going on at BI at all.

Have you ever considered that there is more then one development team? Maybe one for the tools, and one for the game. I guess not.

And the only planless people I see here are posting in this topic about stuff that has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the original topic.  

I have been breaking my head about these issues and finally came to a conclussion:

BI leaves too much open to imagination OR the information is so well hidden away in Interview 349 in Czech Games Magazine XX....

I am uncertain how other companies do this, but to get away from this "assuming" standard, I think a better information flow, possibly news letter, possibly webpage with weekly updated info or whatsoever might be a good idea. I heard about Developper blogs before, these might be handy too.

I know that with some extra effort, different info is findable but it's not in everyone's nature to be the info-dig-specialist..

I know this is off-topic when it comes to the thread title, though it adds up to the current topic of past posts.

I second that Sickboy. With a game that is so much wanted after the great OFP, the dissapointment gets really big when people feel that its not meeting the expectations.

Maybe some sort of information from the developers could calm things down abit. And maybe not

[ArmaVidz 0]

On-topic of the game bugs/disappointments I have posted earlier in the thread my gripes. While hindering and making the Ai appear to be mentally deficient at times, judging by my YouTube profile you can see how much ArmA disappoints me

@xnodunitx

It's a 36+ page thread, that's a hefty read for your average Joe who just wants to express his POV and opinion; be it flame or legitamite complain. I think that's why issues are brought up again and again.

I think SickBoy's nailed the ghist of the angst in the thread: lack of information.

@Rhodite

Is there an official avenue to politely ask BIS or otherwise solicit a response in regard to informational updates regarding the game and/or direction?

[SeppSchrot 0]

Have you ever considered that there is more then one development team? Maybe one for the tools, and one for the game. I guess not.

Actually, I did.

But is this important? I fail to see the relevance of how many subteams might work under the BIS umbrella.

Other companies -big or small- have workgroups for different tasks as well. And yet these workgroups usually have a schedule of one kind or another and give feedback about E.T.A's.

When the management can't keep track of them, then smt. went wrong, sorry.

Quote[/b] ]

This post shows one more time that people [...] have no idea about what's going on at BI at all.

That was quite the point, yes. ;

[Planck 1]

I fail to see how it has been concluded that:

Quote[/b] ]

When the management can't keep track of them, then smt. went wrong

This is maybe your interpretation of the situation, I do not see that BI management have failed to keep track of any of their agenda, I would venture to say they know exactly what is happening in their planning.

But then you can also say I am guessing and speculating just as many in this topic are, and it serves no purpose.

It is ok to list negative aspects of this game that have been encountered, that is one thing, but the some of the behaviour in this topic is just sheer stupidity and does nobody any good, least of all BI or the game.

Planck

[SeppSchrot 0]

I fail to see how it has been concluded that:

Quote[/b] ]

When the management can't keep track of them, then smt. went wrong

This is maybe your interpretation of the situation, I do not see that BI management have failed to keep track of any of their agenda

It hasn't been concluded that the BI management did.

I merely asserted that the number of subteams can't be an excuse for the lack of information.

Quote[/b] ]

It is ok to list negative aspects of this game that have been encountered,

Yes. I see you are wearing an OFPEC avatar. Don't you agree that the communication between the developers and the community is very important in games like OFP and ArmA?

Isn't it part of the game?

Thus, I say, they could make statements more frequently and a bit more transparent. I think this a valid complaint as much as "The grass is too green." is.

And I am very sorry when this is (ill)received as 'bashing'.

[xxbbcc 6]

Yeah i left this thread a long time ago to play some nice coops which all in all turn out to be great so i dont think that this game is Disappointing imo people i have the choice to either go play some great games or just and complain in these fourms.

Now the question is.. What will you! choose

I think many people who mention "stop complaining and go play coop" forget that that may not be an option. I'm a software engineer and lead a development team, so my work day is ~10 hours long. After that I most definitely have no time/motivation for coop - I simply want to shoot up a few things (not Quake-style, but OFP/ArmA style) and then be done with it. With the current 1.08 version that's almost impossible, because I cannot save most missions (I can but reload is as good as nonexistent.) The bad AI makes playing frustrating, etc, etc, etc. All in all, I find Arma (as I stated before) a huge letdown. It helps me not that the coop might be working.

What W0lle said about BIS having multiple teams for the different things they do might be true, but I agree that they do seem quite lost in the woods. I'm not saying that that's the case, but it sure looks like that. It'd be nice to see a release/bugfix schedule so that everyone has at least an idea as to how much to wait.

[Sc@tterbrain 0]

Like the title says, share all your negative experiences and complaints about ArmA in this thread only.

For positive feedback and praising use this thread.

The channel rules apply here too, no flamebaiting, insults etc. Violations against this result in a 24h PR (at least).

I'm a bit confused.  I can't contest positive coments made in the praise forum, but this thread is ripe with snappy comebacks about criticisms.

Am I to believe that a sensible point-counter point IS acceptable, or that there are different rules that apply to different posters  (some more "notable" than others?). Because some of the counter points in this thread are just as crass as the points they oppose. And when I look at the poster it seems a nerve has been hit.

Taking a deep breath and a step back worked for me, maybe whats good for the goose is...

As to not be accused of being comepletely off topic....

Many of my disappointments have been aleviated by switching from Sprocket to the Atari version, the patches and buying some more expensive hardware.

My remaining "disappointment" comes when I look at the server list.  The distinct lack of variety in missions that are on servers makes me not play.

This is not a BIS issue but an ArmA issue.  I have loaded up other missions and yet people seem drawn to only a few.  I figure this is a passing phase, its just taking longer than expected.

[4 IN 1 0]

yeah loading up the server list seeing almost all of them were EVO is just......what can i say.......

i mean, i barely see any A&D/C&H/CTI and normal non evo COOP right now(sorry for CTF but i am not really into it)

[bravo 6 0]

My remaining "disappointment" comes when I look at the server list. The distinct lack of variety in missions that are on servers makes me not play.

This is not a BIS issue but an ArmA issue. I have loaded up other missions and yet people seem drawn to only a few. I figure this is a passing phase, its just taking longer than expected.

Yes you can say its a ArmA issue, but BIS is the responsable for it aswell, because they are the responsables how things act, react and run.

I hate how the mission editor is. Not the visual, not the addons but the way how it reacts. While in editor and editing i want a better and fast response/look to what i build.

The waiting and receiving time, kills the mood alot. Every time i want to see how the things are ingame i have to wait a few, not mentioning the freez seconds i have sometimes. If i count all minuts i lost together while i was waiting in the editor i think i already lost a full mid day.

Mission makers don't have inspiration to build missions, or if they do they fast lose them due do problems with triggers or due to the time they lose in between. Also the large combat scale in ARMA as promissed is not (yet) possible.

Thats why there are no more missions arround.

The relation between editor space/game and mission maker is bad, it's even worst then in OFP. I talk for myself, and i know people that feel the same about this.

Comparing to OFP, i know OFP was much faster and i didn't feel this problem. I call this a problem because i lose the fun building missions due to the things i mentioned.

<span style='font-size:19pt;line-height:100%'>I miss the old editor so much</span>.

I think BIS need to sacrifice and lose some time optimizing the editor, because the editor was/is one the main things that kept OFP alive all these years. Without it ArmA will die.

I figure this is a passing phase, its just taking longer than expected.

I also think it is and i really hope its a passing phase. Until i don't see and results about this subject i will not release any mission i have made and begin. Its really sad to see 63 unfinished missions in mission folder, and having no inspiration to finish them..

Hope BIS do something about this editing problem that is affecting the community.

[vilas 473]

what concerns editor problems mentioned

loading depends of power of your PC

for me annoying is long checking of orginal disc (Starforce in PL version)

editor is loading now in ARMA like it was loading faster than on OFP when i had weaker PC

but i don't have to wait more than some seconds, so it is normal

the thing most missing for me are camera effects , in OFP making missions was much easier :/

BIS should include camera effects back, because now for me it is big problem in missionmaking

problem is with loading games when you are dead, uyoue were killed, you wanna start from point "savegame" trigger and mission restart from begining, sometimes i close ARMA and don't want to try again, because if mission is long it is very very annoying, but reloading save point of mission is bad feature in this game, i miss in this game things from a\other games like quick save, quick load

BIS also should give more waypoints in editor, as for example "shoot area" for missions with artillery or intros it would be great, imagine cannons firing at some place, soldiers run and like on movies

strong point of ARMA is that editor is not loading so long if you put more soldiers, in OFP when i put 4-5 groups of soldiers editor was loading very very long, now even 8 group soldiers make no harm

[J3st3r 0]

Not dissapointted par say just alittle confussed ...

In single campain mode it stated that the US forces were pulling out and what units there are are the remaing force and yet if the forces were being pulled out I have yet to see any major troop transporters.

Like the Lockheed C130.

[The-Architect 0]

I am still having real problems with my men not targeting enemy soldiers who are plainly in view and shooting at us.

Is it me? Is it BIS? What's going on?