Public Training

[Kay 0]

My opinion currently is that I love to see a guy like Dslyecxi give help to community players with his dedication to ArmA, although he works primarily on other BIS projects. Before ArmA I read his fun AARs and loved the WGL action.

So, where is your "contribution to the community", USM? :]

Instead of working on a contribution to the community, they'd rather bash other people who's worked long and hard to contribute to the community.

Haven't learned how to deal with jealousy, perhaps?

Come up with something that's even as good as even one chapter of Dslyecxi's work and maybe you guys will gain some credibilty.  I stress the word maybe, and I use the word gain very loosely..

[USM-75R.Hspd -XO- 0]

I am not going to write anything out, if you want to learn something new come to training on Saturday. 12pm EST.

[Rambo-16AAB 0]

To the USM Guys.

I apologise for our server last night, it was having a few "issues" and wasnt feeling very well. Its had a reboot nd some medicene and is running better now.

Good luck with your training night.

[USM-75R.Hspd -XO- 0]

Was no problem, thanks for the well wishes.

[USM-75R.Hspd -XO- 0]

look I want to appologize to the community for bashing Dslyecxi's work. This post was intended for the community to join our server and see how we work and to view the potential of this game in a different light.

Unfortunately I did not have the time, cause I do have a life outside this game, to write up a TTP guide. Everything I've done in that order has been amidst my team. USM was one of the first servers up following the release of ArmA in the Czech republic, we also were one of the first servers up shortly after that offering public training via our military advisors within our team. Upon that occasion we had about 25 players attend all of which said they enjoyed the training and it was good quality. If you attend and don't join USM I don't care, the idea was to become outstanding in the community and to provide you, the community, with the knowledge BEYOND anyone elses materials or way of doing things.

I would appreciate getting back on topic, as it was my intention in the beginning before my thread was highjacked.

Thank you.

[dslyecxi 23]

Quote[/b] ]look I want to appologize to the community for bashing Dslyecxi's work.

Contradicted by:

Quote[/b] ]For the record I want to point out to any USM member as well as anyone who may visit this site from the ArmA community. Dslyecxi's tactical guide is not the way to go at all. His information seems mainly based off of globalsecurity.com's information of which some information dates back to the early 1940's. I'll admit he covers the basics of a lot of stuff, sorry to say its very far from detailed and that it leaves countless gaps for error simply reading his guide will not help you in organized play beyond formations. If you want REAL instruction and REAL solutions via military simulated gaming stick to USM my friends.

Quote[/b] ]Unfortunately I did not have the time, cause I do have a life outside this game, to write up a TTP guide.

I like how you managed to sling a personal attack insult into your "apology". Bravo!

Quote[/b] ]the idea was to become outstanding in the community

Mission accomplished, though not in the way you intended.

Quote[/b] ]and to provide you, the community, with the knowledge BEYOND anyone elses materials or way of doing things.

It is a desperate tactic to proclaim that you have the SUPER SECRET AWESOME TACTICS and will only show them to people who attend your training (recruiting) event. It is also desperate to claim that you are able to provide material that is better than anyone else's in the community. Your constant citation of having "military advisors" is comical in this community - almost every group out there has a slew of former military in it, they just don't typically harp on it to try to attract people.

Quote[/b] ]I would appreciate getting back on topic, as it was my intention in the beginning before my thread was highjacked.

Would you like to discuss tactics, since the topic is about tactical training? I mean, based on your "example" screens posted? That could be a fun discussion. I think the title would have to be "Real Life Tactics, and how they don't translate 100% into a virtual environment". We could discuss how you unnecessarily stack tightly outside of buildings, put tons of people into small environments where they can get fragged easily, equip all of your members with M203s, and appear to enjoy staging scenes for the camera. The amount of stuff I have seen in your screenshots that would get players killed in actual gameplay, whether against AI or humans, is staggering.

Why do you claim to be so above-and-beyond everyone else in tactical prowess? Why make such a bold claim that you cannot possibly back up? Why must you resort to bashing other people to try to make yourselves look good? Why not just stand on your own merits? For myself, I've had some really quality discussions with people about the tactics I wrote. There are lots of different ways to do things, and most mature adults understand this. No one group's tactics are the "END ALL, BE ALL" solution for everyone. Claiming as such is just silly. Everyone can learn from everyone else, whether it be in a positive way or a negative way.

Giving you the benefit of the doubt about this being "for the community" and not for recruitment (which I personally do not believe), why could you not have approached this in a more mature manner? You immediately jumped at the opportunity to bash someone else's tactical writings in an attempt to validate your group. Instead of standing on your own merits, you had to insult others, attack and attempt to decredit their work, and so on and so forth. It's childish behavior, and my intent in this thread is to give a differing perspective from yours, because I think that people who attend this training may very well be burned by it. So now people can come in here, look through the thread, and make a more informed decision about whether or not they want to spend the time with you and yours. Some may, some may not. At least now they can see two sides of it.

[USM-75R.Hspd -XO- 0]

go ahead and burry yourself Dslyecxi. I already appologized. Now go make an ArmA video or something. If you want me to back up my teams training, then attend the training tomorrow. Otherwise drop it.

[d3dsh33p 0]

lol thx for the training on how to make the perfect thread

i would like to add that their training is cool if your into it. i personally did my time in the army and don't have the patience for it, but i have been there for training on occasion and they do have some good things goin.

[dslyecxi 23]

Quote[/b] ]go ahead and burry yourself Dslyecxi.

I'm sorry, my dumb jarhead self cannot understand your spelling. What is "burry"? Could you perhaps run a spellcheck through your posts before they're sent to aid simpletons like myself in the future?

Quote[/b] ]I already appologized.

A half-assed apology accompanied by an insult is not a real apology. I believe we already covered that concept in PMs yesterday.

Quote[/b] ]Now go make an ArmA video or something.

Quote[/b] ]If you want me to back up my teams training, then attend the training tomorrow.

You want to promote your training, correct? I think a good way to do that would be by justfying your tactics and methods in this thread. Unless, you know... you can't... in which case I suppose it would be wise for you to not even attempt to do so and just hope people show up for your training and you can snare them for your group.

Quote[/b] ]Otherwise drop it.

I think... not. Forums are for discussion. Here's a discussion.

[USM-75R.Hspd -XO- 0]

The training we will cover is backed by 5 years of development with gamers, with little quarells in forums we've still managed to impress many people. I was hostile with Dslyecxi from before when he went bashing our ethics which led to us retaliating. I

I'm willing to overlook that and move on should we move on from the bashing of Dslyecxi's guide. I'm not very good at appologies nor am I good at letting someone smack talk me without putting in my own words edgewise. This thread is to invite you all to learn some incredibly detailed stuff to assist you on the battlefield.

This argument IMO has gone far enough there is no winning side to this in the sense that everyone believes they are right in their opinion and its a never ending battle, so just drop it already. Whether you attend the training or not. My team will continue to train and grow, and many will see that we aren't just shooting blanks. Back to topic please. Who will attend the training session tomorrow hop onto our TS. ts.usmsquad.com:8767 Ip's are logged so don't come in being a smacktard it will simply get you banned. I think in order for you to truely view our team you have to get to know us outside of the forums.

[dslyecxi 23]

You can't even justify one element of your tactics? One simple thing?

Come on. It's not difficult to explain why you do things one way versus any other. If you're truly interested in "the good of the community", why not take the time to educate everyone as to why you think it's wise to cram people tightly together into a single structure? Or why you think that tight stacks outside of buildings are a good idea?

Discussion of tactics is enlightening when done properly. You don't seem to be interested, which leads me to conclude yet again that this is nothing more than a thinly-veiled recruitment effort.

[USM-75R.Hspd -XO- 0]

OK allow me to ramble on about our tactics since Dslyecxi wants them so badly.

A wedge formation is as dslyecxi explained, however, more defined, there is a teamleader in the center of a fireteam wedge, he is responsible for direction of the team to the best of his ability. Soldiers on the left are offset of the soldiers on the right (meaning a soldier on the left is center of two soldiers on the right) distance between soldiers to avoid clumping is 5 to 7 meters. Soldiers are never in direct line of the pointman in an attempt to avoid multiple friendly's being hit by a foes initial line of fire. Wedge formation is used when contact is not expected due to the fact that soldiers are close to one another.

A modification of the Wedge Formation is called Traveling Overwatch in which the wedge formation is formed the same but spread out leaving an area of 10 to 14 meters between soldiers thus to help avoid the possibility of too many soldiers being taken out by arty or other explosives.

Bounding Overwatch. As Dslyecxi explained it, it is the alternating bounds of teams with one covering and one moving. Detailed, the teamleader of the fireteam bounding needs to be able to see his team within peripheral vision meaning the team members bound within the 5 to 7 meter buffer zone between eachother just ahead of the teamlead.

Room Clearing. Clearing a 4 cornerd room, soldiers move to fill 3 of the corners assuming no obstacles such as doorways and such. Perimeter watch is set on the outside of the building and exits are numbered. Within a room firesectors converge on the unmanned corner. Rear man watches rear. If the room is small upon entering teamlead calls compact, the remaining members of the fireteam hold security outside until, in game, the word "tap" is used to signal them to reform. When entering a room stay outside of the fatal funnel which is an area 5 feet inside the door and 5 feet outside the door, never stop in the doorway, as you will be vulnerable to fire as well as anyone comming in after you.

Four Way Intersections. Saw Gunner plays the role of a pivot point. First man moves from watching the foward of the team to a crouched position securing the nearside cross street. the 2nd man positions himself in an over under stance with the first man however watching the front. From this point on the 2nd man will always be watching the front. At the same time the third man (or whatever position the crew served weapon (SAW)is in moves across the street for far cross street security. He also has the ability to direct massive amounts of fire down all streets, to the rear, to the front, and to the sides. Once these men are in position either the third or the first man crosses his street, never at the same time to avoid two men in the street at once. Once crossed they resume watching their sectors (note that all men crossing the street with exception of the second man, watching forward, are watching down his near side street.) Following the movement of the 1st and third man the fourth will cross and replace the first all in one motion the third man will move back into formation, and the team will move out.

Convoys. A formation called the Herringbone formation is used even while traveling when able, to help avoid the congestion of the convoy should the lead vehicle be taken out. It also allows time for other vehicles to dodge the newly aquired reckage, as well as pick up any remaining soldiers on their way by, assuming the order to pull out of the Killzone is given. In the event the order is given to pull out of the killzone, teams should rally 1-2 miles ahead of the attack for resuplying and medevac. If armor is available to the team they provide security to the teams flanks while leaving the killzone and throughout the rally operation. If the team is commanded to standoff the attack, they will pull their vehicles into a 45 degree angle (noted as herringbone formation" in dslyecxi's guide) they will then get to the safe side of their vehicle and return fire, armor helping out accordingly.

[cobra@pulse 0]

What a load of complete and utter crap is in this thread, its supprising that so much shit can be amassed in one place.

Too many a time have simple threads turned horribly sour, its blatently obvious more of this is happening and as can be seen a hell of alot of high quality addon creators aren't around as much any more. At the risk of sounding like a hippy, can't we all just get along, or in a laymans terms, shut the hell up and get on with it for a change, the lot of you.

/rant

[dslyecxi 23]

OK allow me to ramble on about our tactics since Dslyecxi wants them so badly..

I'm sorry, you seem to have misunderstood me. I was asking about two specific things - why you stack, and why you cram so many people into a small structure.

What you instead talked about is nothing new. Your first three citations (wedge formation, traveling overwatch, bounding overwatch) are damn near identical to what I described in my own guide, which makes me wonder why you'd slam it. Again we come back to the "promoting yourselves by attempting to discredit others" topic.

Your CQB tactics are based on something other than ArmA, and that's where I have issues with them. The CQB aspect of ArmA is extremely limited. Aside from fragging rooms and knowing how to pie off an area, there really isn't much else that's applicable. The ArmA collision and movement model makes trying to cram lots of people into a small area almost suicidal. If you do your CQB training to come off as "high speed", that's one thing, but to snow people into thinking that it matters is outright misleading. You will get slaughtered en masse by a moderately competent human opfor if you try to do "By the book" room/building clearing in ArmA. It's just not designed for such things.

Your "crossing an intersection" thing is nothing new.

So I ask again - where do you get off proclaiming that your tactics are the best things since sliced bread? You slam my work, then damn near recite it when talking about your own tactics. It's mind-boggling. The best you can come up with if you try is nitpicking the differences.

edit: You threw in the herringbone stuff after I had replied. I have never read any instance of the Herringbone formation being anything but a stationary formation. The fact that the name is taken from the angles of the vehicles relative to the direction of movement seems to back that up. So does the official Army definition of the Herringbone.

[USM-75R.Hspd -XO- 0]

Our tactics are formed to gaming perfectly, Everything I covered is possible in game and will help teams perform better. Once again I am sorry for bashing your guide, I did however implement that it does get people thinking on the right side. I initially bashed it cause someone high jacked my thread with their own stuff promoting your guide, and because we haven't had the best of realations. There are much much more beyond what I posted there to show my teams knowledge. Now I'm off to work talk at you guys later.

[d3dsh33p 0]

OK FOR THE TWO OF YOU

usm wants to do it in-game

dyslexia wants you to read his thing

end of story

[dslyecxi 23]

usm wants to do it in-game

dyslexia wants you to read his thing

end of story

Not quite. I'm more interested in people being wary of this recruiting-effort-disguised-as-training.

I don't run public training for my own reasons. There are other groups who do, and of those, I think they are a safer bet than USM, which I believe has less-than-pure intentions here.

[d3dsh33p 0]

so lets all start an anti-USM group and be cool together. You can be the leader.

[adumb 0]

HAHAHA best topic of the year, i havent seen a topic like this in years. you all would make blackdog so happy!

[dslyecxi 23]

so lets all start an anti-USM group and be cool together. You can be the leader.

It's not really about "being cool together", more about giving a different perspective to allow for people to make a more informed decision about wanting to participate.

If this perceived pressure causes USM to step up their maturity to put on a good show for those that happen to show up, more power to them. That would be a nice outcome to all of this. I'm not exactly expecting it to happen, though...

[Spyder001 1]

Heh d3d, an anti-USM group, that’s funny. Anyways Dslyecxi, I would really appreciate you not starting fights in this thread anymore.

Monk I looked at your post bashing 3 grammatical errors in the forums. That's really immature and there are things called typos and lack of 100% perfect typing skills.

This thread is to educate the community about a public training we have set up. It is made to better the game play with the ArmA community.

Dslyecxi, I wish you the best with your tactical guide and your shack tactical team. But I do believe this is where we "part ways", so to speak. We will not direct posts to you, in return we hope you do the same.

I hope any members seeking training attend this event. Incase you were wondering, everything taught to us was by a former U.S. Army Ranger.

[guerilla -MCY- 0]

there's a battlefield to solve thinks likethis , i know yer guys are just into coop but anyway, there you can prove yer tactics, i recommend a berzerk c&h + gc league ctf round...

[Spyder001 1]

Well, thank you for the invite. Actually, I'm not much of a fan of COOP, neither is USM. We used to have berzerk maps up, now we do RTS-4. Hope to see you around bud.

[Gunney 0]

This is pretty funny. I'm still confused on how Dslyecxi's guide is 50 year old information? I mean im not a Marine yet but his guide sounds legit to me. Anyways, gives us a sitrep on the training event for entertainment errr informational purposes.

[JohnMalcolm1970 0]

I wouldn't say Dslyecxi's TTP was composed of 50 year old information. Even if it was though... there are many lessons to be learned from studying the past.

Quote[/b] ]"The technology of war may change, the sophistication of weapons certainly changes. But those same principles of war that applied to the days of Hannibal apply today," says Schwarzkopf, former Supreme Commander of Coalition Forces in the 1991 Gulf War. He proved their worth when he successfully put to the test 2,000-year-old tactics on a 20th century battlefield.