why the obsession with evolution co op?

[Vassago 0]

People who like CoOp get pissed because those who don't like it, whine and cry to remove it. CoOp is a very rare mode in games these days, so it's something that many people enjoy. The other modes are just as fun, but they are ALWAYS there, in EVERY game. CoOp is just something different. Something we don't get often.

[celery 8]

People who like CoOp get pissed because those who don't like it, whine and cry to remove it. CoOp is a very rare mode in games these days, so it's something that many people enjoy. The other modes are just as fun, but they are ALWAYS there, in EVERY game. CoOp is just something different. Something we don't get often.

Just because one group doesn't have so many games isn't reason enough for them to be the kings of this community, nobody should be above someone else. In ArmA you can join a coop game 24/7. But the topic here is Evolution, and it's being overplayed to the extremes so that there are not many other missions to choose from and we are wondering why they aren't bored already.

[Vassago 0]

Sit down for a second, this may be shocking news. But there may actually be people out there, who enjoy the mission more than you. I know, that's a doozy. But it just might be the case.

[Guest]

Co-Op I just Love it!

Oh and I dont know if this has been mentioned or not, but you get very few Hackers in Co-op Games, which I find for me is a very good draw card.

[Vassago 0]

I think the big draw to evolution is that there's incentive to play. It's not just 'play to win'. You have to earn your weapons and vehicles. You need to play well, to get the cool toys. It adds a whole new dimension to the CoOp experience. I'd personally like to see more varied verisons, but on a smaller scale. Like 3-4 towns, max. And increase the rate at which you gain points. Shorter games, cooler toys.

[frederf 0]

I the major reasons why "real" coops aren't popular any more (if they ever were):

1. Mission makers overestimate the number of people that are going to play the mission. Say the mission has 17 slots, the mission should be beatable if you have only 9 humans playing (think half of max). The mission should be a walk in the park almost with 100% of the slots filled and doable with 50%.

2. Don't string together 100 unrelated objectives. Make 100 doable missions instead of one impossible super mission.

3. Don't place players 5 ft from the enemy or about to get attacked. Players would not magically find themselves conscious one ridge line short of the objective. Give them time and space to maneuver and prepare. Same with convoy ambushes, 30 sec is not enough time!

4. Don't hamstring players in terms of their equipment. M4AIMSD's and 3 mags may be default, but this is going to get a lot of people killed. I've seen all sorts of wankery like mp5 mags in my inventory when I had an M4, GP25 ammo for my M203, OPFOR hand grenades for BLUFOR.

5. Write a briefing.

6. Don't use tanks and a horde of infantry as replacement for a dynamic or challenging enemy.

There are like 4-5 coop missions I'll actually play and half of those fail on about 3/5 of these rules.

[Nutty_101 0]

I think the big draw to evolution is that there's incentive to play. It's not just 'play to win'. You have to earn your weapons and vehicles. You need to play well, to get the cool toys. It adds a whole new dimension to the CoOp experience. I'd personally like to see more varied verisons, but on a smaller scale. Like 3-4 towns, max. And increase the rate at which you gain points. Shorter games, cooler toys.

When i get some time to make my missions complete. You just join one server and train on what you want to do in the real game. This way you don't have to start over all the time. The main game is on a separate server and changes all the time. The difference is that the game world reacts outside the server and all the strategy is wrapped into a program that works to ensure that there is something to do for everyone. If someone comes in with the ability to fly a MI17 then an AI squad being sent somewhere just might ask for transport to somewhere if there is a vehicle open in the area. Stupid little things.

[Kwato 0]

I think the big draw to evolution is that there's incentive to play. It's not just 'play to win'. You have to earn your weapons and vehicles. You need to play well, to get the cool toys.

I realize than I am in the minority here because I don't really like large scale coops. Yes in theory it sounds good, but in practice it always end up being too chaotic and a confusion fest. Everybody does his own thing, and it is impossible to coordinate anything.

And the trend where you have to kill things to unlock weapons or vehicles leaves me completely cold. If I wanted to play a rpg I'd play one, thank you very much. Next thing you know, we're going to get xp for kills and get awarded m16 + 3 of sla slaying.

I'd much rather play a serie of short games with a dozen people max and no respawn than a massive 4 or 5 hours game but that's just me.

[OrLoK 20]

Hello

@Kwato I too prefer small coops for the same rason you state.

Although, I think Evo is one of the best user made missions (of its type) out there.

Whacking in all the scripts like recruiting AI, changing squads etc was a great idea. Excellent stuff.

I do like the limiting of weapons, in fact I'd make it even harsher or just remove the super weapons.

Point is, no matter how or what mission someone makes, there will always be one grumpy sod who doesn't like an aspect of it. (probably me ).

I do, howerver, think that Evo is over dominating my server list (UK based / ping under 100 filter enabled / coop filter selected).

But that shows what a good coop mission it is for the majority of players.

Perhaps the makers of Evo could make a smaller version or enable variants so folk can switch off bits like the rank system for those who dont like it.

I would like to see more and varied coop missions, but evo has its place. (just at the moment, too many places )

rgds

LoK

[Junker 0]

Give me a impossible mission anytime cus a hard mission is a popular mission in my eyes.

Evo there is only one drawback, YOU WILL NEVER LOSE.

[sluggCDN 0]

Someone said that Evo is like a turkey shoot - I think this person never actually played Evo. I play on 1-8 hell kitchen server. They must have the AI settings maxed out. The moment AI spots you in its vicinity you have at least one enemy squad coming at you; and not in a straight line - they flank, pop from behind, supported by light and heavy armor. I consider myself an experienced OFPer . And I never played such difficult AI before. We have a group of buddies that played OFP CTI for years with squad tactics all worked out and coordinated. And we still get our buts kicked on a regular basis by AI. From time to time we see some really skilled and fine teamplayers showing up on the 1-8 hell kitchen server which makes the game an obsolute delight. I don't think there are currently enough good, seasoned players in the community to created a good quality TDM game. And another point in favor of Evo - it's like playing multiple seperate singleplayer search & destroy missions without the bullshit storyline tying it together. Straight business, no BS. You can play it in any order. Rank system in Evo is also a strong asset. I wish it wasn't flushed everytime server is restared.

[--DST-- HIGHLANDER 0]

you guys are ai nobbs, cant hack real players , youre wannbees, more like neverbees, i could own you dirt ****ing wannbees anytime,if you dont belive be, come and bring it, p.s and im drunk come to any CTF server im on

[--DST-- HIGHLANDER 0]

thats me drunk sozz,

[-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0]

HAHAHA Im a mean green shootin in your face machine

[Metal Heart 0]

Not enough noobs to pwn in CTF because people prefer Evolution? Well boo fucking hoo hoo, go play CS

[Junker 0]

HIGHLANDER @ May 19 2007,02:16)]you guys are ai nobbs, cant hack real players , youre wannbees, more like neverbees, i could own you dirt ****ing wannbees anytime,if you dont belive be, come and bring it, p.s and im drunk come to any CTF server im on

this sort of child like behavior is what makes me play co-op no offence HIGHLANDER but when people shoot you and start giving you crap like "AHAHA I OWN YOU NOOB" it sort of take away the enjoyment out of the game.

[december 0]

You CTF and DM guys are cool.

All the 12 year olds and the cheaters utomatically gravitate to your servers and leave the coop servers free for us to play in peace.

Long may you prosper.

[OrLoK 20]

Uh oh , think we're veering away from topic to a slagging match....

Ignore highlanders rave as he freely admints he's bladdered.

Lets see what he says in the cold light of day.

BUT, quite truly, I too hate the "I PWNZ U!!!" mentality that I sometimes (not always) encounter on CTF servers.

I think that that is something that pushes CooP players away as it reminds us too much of the TKers that pop up now and again.

Again, im NOT saying this attitude is prvelent on CTF,DM servers etc, just that I do see it from time to time.

Perhaps Im just too damn old and am being "Generation Gapped"?

Rgds

LoK

[frederf 0]

The reason I play coop instead of PvP is mostly due to how low-brow PvP play often is. It's basically a TDM ignoring most of what's good and unique about ArmA.

Playing some run and gun in the middle of a small town TDM in ArmA is like using a Lamborgini for a door stop. Sure it's the right shape but there are much simpler and better-suited objects to keep your door open.

[celery 8]

Playing some run and gun in the middle of a small town TDM in ArmA is like using a Lamborgini for a door stop. Sure it's the right shape but there are much simpler and better-suited objects to keep your door open.

I would see coop play as driving that Lamborghini in a crammed up city at the mercy of traffic lights and stupid drivers. PvP would be like racing against other skilled drivers, and Lamborghinis are sports cars afterall.

[Kirby 2]

I see most CTF's and TDM's as McClaren F1's

Damn fun at times, but will give you a headache after too mutch (The players are usualy idiots, not saying "you" (The reader) are) but isn't mutch good for Off-Roading (CoOp'ing)

CoOp's are 4x4's in a decent place, slower paced, requiring more teamwork (All four wheels) and just as thrilling, if not more, depending on your personal taste.

[Kay 0]

All these analogies...my head...

[frederf 0]

PvP is rarely like "racing a car" like you say. Because racing a car is using a car for what a car is for.

Using a complex, rich tactical battlefield simulator to jump around 12 buildings blasting each other with default weapons at close range, having 20 second respawns, and no teamwork is like "using a car for a doorstop" It's not using ArmA for what makes ArmA special.

[celery 8]

PvP is rarely like "racing a car" like you say. Because racing a car is using a car for what a car is for.

Using a complex, rich tactical battlefield simulator to jump around 12 buildings blasting each other with default weapons at close range, having 20 second respawns, and no teamwork is like "using a car for a doorstop" It's not using ArmA for what makes ArmA special.

I can continue along that path too. Coop is certainly not what this "racing car" is for because the AI is in such a bad state that clearly it wasn't created to replace real human enemies, but only as a last ditch effort to provide something for the singleplayer mode before going to the real action in multiplayer. In this case coop would be driving that same Lamborghini with your other sports car driving friends and racing as a team on a highway against slower cars that don't know or even care that you are trying to beat them.

[NeMeSiS 11]

PvP is rarely like "racing a car" like you say. Because racing a car is using a car for what a car is for.

Using a complex, rich tactical battlefield simulator to jump around 12 buildings blasting each other with default weapons at close range, having 20 second respawns, and no teamwork is like "using a car for a doorstop" It's not using ArmA for what makes ArmA special.

I can continue along that path too. Coop is certainly not what this "racing car" is for because the AI is in such a bad state that clearly it wasn't created to replace real human enemies, but only as a last ditch effort to provide something for the singleplayer mode before going to the real action in multiplayer. In this case coop would be driving that same Lamborghini with your other sports car driving friends and racing as a team on a highway against slower cars that don't know or even care that you are trying to beat them.

I dont think that anyone who plays coop looks at the AI the same way as you do..