Blue Angel Down

[blackdog~ 0]

One of the Blue Angels crashed today... at the team's first flight demonstration of the season. The pilot was apparently new but his name hasn't been released.

Sucks...

Quote[/b] ] BEAUFORT, S.C. — A Navy Blue Angel jet crashed during an air show Saturday, plunging into a neighborhood of small homes and trailers and killing the pilot.

Witnesses said the planes were flying in formation during the show at the Marine Corps Air Station at about 4 p.m. and one dropped below the trees and crashed, sending up clouds of smoke.

Raymond Voegeli, a plumber, was backing out of a driveway when the plane ripped through a grove of pine trees, dousing his truck in flames and debris. He said wreckage hit "plenty of houses and mobile homes."

"It was just a big fireball coming at me," said Voegeli, 37. "It was just taking pine trees and just clipping them."

Witnesses said metal and plastic wreckage — some of it on fire — hit homes in the neighborhood, located about 35 miles northwest of Hilton Head Island. William Winn, the county emergency management director, said several homes were damaged. Eight people on the ground were injured.

The crash took place in the final minutes of the air show, said Lt. Cmdr. Anthony Walley, a Blue Angel pilot. The pilots were doing a maneuver which involved all six planes joining from behind the crowd to form a Delta triangle, said Lt. Cmdr. Garrett D. Kasper, spokesman for the Blue Angels. One plane did not rejoin the formation.

Walley said the name of the pilot would not be released until relatives were notified of the death. A Navy statement said the pilot had been on the team for two years — and it was his first as a demonstration pilot.

"Our squadron and the entire U.S. Navy are grieving the loss of a great American, a great Naval officer and a great friend," Walley said.

Kasper said all possible causes of the crash are under investigation, and it could take at least three weeks for an official cause to be released.

John Sauls, who lives near the crash site, said the planes were banking back and forth before one disappeared, and a plume of smoke shot up.

"It's one of those surreal moments when you go, 'No, I didn't just see what I saw,'" Sauls said.

The Blue Angels fly F/A-18 Hornets at high speeds in close formations, and their pilots are considered the Navy's elite. They don't wear the traditional G-suits that most jet pilots use to avoid blacking out during maneuvers. The suits inflate around the lower body to keep blood in the brain, but which could cause a pilot to bump the control stick — a potentially deadly move when flying inches from other planes.

Instead, Blue Angels manage G-forces by tensing their abdominal muscles.

The last Blue Angel crash that killed a pilot took place in 1999, when a pilot and crewmate were killed while practicing for air shows with the five other Blue Angels jets at a base in Georgia.

Saturday's show was at the beginning of the team's flight season, and more than 100,000 people were expected to attend. The elite team, which is based at Pensacola Naval Air Station, recently celebrated its 60th anniversary.

The 2007 team has a new flight leader and two new pilots; Blue Angel pilots traditionally serve two-year rotations.

Kasper said the team would return to Florida on Sunday afternoon. "We will regroup," he said.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/4736943.html

[swtx 42]

I've had the opportunity to see the Blue's twice and both times were well worth the drive and the wait.

I only pray that those injured on the ground recover quickely, and the pilots family are comforted to know that he did everything possible to avoid a more catastrophic incident.

[sputnik monroe 102]

This is sad. My heart goes out to the family of the pilot.

[Guest Ti0n3r]

Ah this sucks... What Sputnik said

[Badgerboy 0]

Quote[/b] ]The Blue Angels fly F/A-18 Hornets at high speeds in close formations, and their pilots are considered the Navy's elite. They don't wear the traditional G-suits that most jet pilots use to avoid blacking out during maneuvers. The suits inflate around the lower body to keep blood in the brain, but which could cause a pilot to bump the control stick — a potentially deadly move when flying inches from other planes.

Odd, the Red Arrows use G Suits as part of their standard equipment, and they are rated as good or if not better than the Blue Angels.

I've pulled sustained 5 G turns without a G Suit, and its bloody easy to black out, particulary when coming out of a split S at a rate of knots. Mis judge your entry speed and your dead.

[mattxr 9]

Quote[/b] ]The Blue Angels fly F/A-18 Hornets at high speeds in close formations, and their pilots are considered the Navy's elite. They don't wear the traditional G-suits that most jet pilots use to avoid blacking out during maneuvers. The suits inflate around the lower body to keep blood in the brain, but which could cause a pilot to bump the control stick — a potentially deadly move when flying inches from other planes.

Odd, the Red Arrows use G Suits as part of their standard equipment, and they are rated as good or if not better than the Blue Angels.

I've pulled sustained 5 G turns without a G Suit, and its bloody easy to black out, particulary when coming out of a split S at a rate of knots. Mis judge your entry speed and your dead.

yeah if he was coming around at fast speeds to rejojn into form he could of well blacked out..

[Shashman 0]

I doubt that....

They are the cream of the cream of US Navy pilots and that's probably one of the most basic things they do.

[Supah 0]

I doubt that....

They are the cream of the cream of US Navy pilots and that's probably one of the most basic things they do.

Who fly without a G-suit and are just human? I can tell you one thing, he didn't crash because he though it might be a novel experience so something must have gone wrong.

[Shashman 0]

Well obviously

As pilots in the Blue Angels, they obviously know how to counter/deal with G force. The last thing you want, when performing the type of manoeuvers aerobatic pilots do, is suffer G-LOC, so they're no doubt better at it than your average fast jet pilot

[Supah 0]

Well obviously  

As pilots in the Blue Angels, they obviously know how to counter/deal with G force. The last thing you want, when performing the type of manoeuvers aerobatic pilots do, is suffer G-LOC, so they're no doubt better at it than your average fast jet pilot

Depends, if everything goes well then yes. If he misjudged the start of his manouver and started to low or had to pull harder to avoid say birds then suddenly you might go up to 9 G's. No human does that with a G-suit and stay conscious You might be a blue angel but at then end of the day you are still just human.

[BlackScorpion 0]

CNN coverage, with an very close observer of the crash being interviewed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c96sU5q2wQ

Oh, and Supah... some do. Not everybody, especailly for a long period, but some do.

[Supah 0]

CNN coverage, with an very close observer of the crash being interviewed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c96sU5q2wQ

Oh, and Supah... some do. Not everybody, especailly for a long period, but some do.

If you are talking 1 second perhaps. But basically nobody actually tries it without a G suit in an actual jet. The blue angels dont do sustained 9 G turns. Even 4 G will put the average joe out cold if its sustained.

[Shashman 0]

Don't forget that even 1 second is a long time when performing the fast, precise manoeuvers that aerobatic pilots do.

[Supah 0]

Don't forget that even 1 second is a long time when performing the fast, precise manoeuvers that aerobatic pilots do.

Count to 1 .... now think about how much of an manouver you could have pulled .... very little You should try flying yourself, you can't really do shit in one second.

[dm 9]

I'm with supah on this one. Yes you can cover a lot of distance in a second, but in flying terms 1 second is nothing.

I don't get the reasoning behind not wearing g-suits myself. Its almost as if they're trying to proove something by it. "We're so good we dont need g-suits" bravado, whereas most other display teams let the flying speak for its self.

[Messiah 2]

i think the FAQ on the blue angels site is quite clear on why they don't use G suits - its a bit of a pointless argument to have.

Quote[/b] ]Why don’t the pilots wear G-suits?

G-suits are designed with air bladders (pockets) that inflate and deflate to keep a pilot’s blood from pooling in the pilots’ legs while executing sharp, unpredicted combat maneuvers. Unlike combat flying, the Blue Angels demonstration pilots know the maneuvers they will fly prior to execution, so each pilot knows when one will be pulling heavy gravitational forces. Anticipating the changes in gravitational forces allows the Blue Angels demonstration pilots to combat the G-forces with muscle contractions. In addition, the Boeing F/A-18’s control stick is mounted between the pilot’s legs. The Blue Angels have a spring tensioned with 35 pounds of pressure installed on the control stick that gives the pilot a “false feel.†This allows the pilot minimal room for uncommanded movement. The pilots rest their right arms on their thighs for support and stability while flying. Therefore, inflating and deflating air bladders in a G-suit would interrupt this support and stability, causing uncommanded aircraft movement. In this case, G-suits would detrimentally impact flight safety.

[Shashman 0]

Don't forget that even 1 second is a long time when performing the fast, precise manoeuvers that aerobatic pilots do.

Count to 1 .... now think about how much of an manouver you could have pulled .... very little You should try flying yourself, you can't really do shit in one second.

I was in the Manchester and Salford Universities Air Squadron (Royal Air Force Voluntary Reserve) for a year.

I flew a Grob G115 ('Tutor' in RAF service), an aerobatics capable primary trainer, stressed to 9Gs

In a second you can perform a 360o roll, you can invert, you can stall... Quite a bit really

[dm 9]

i think the FAQ on the blue angels site is quite clear on why they don't use G suits - its a bit of a pointless argument to have.

Quote[/b] ]Why don’t the pilots wear G-suits?

G-suits are designed with air bladders (pockets) that inflate and deflate to keep a pilot’s blood from pooling in the pilots’ legs while executing sharp, unpredicted combat maneuvers. Unlike combat flying, the Blue Angels demonstration pilots know the maneuvers they will fly prior to execution, so each pilot knows when one will be pulling heavy gravitational forces. Anticipating the changes in gravitational forces allows the Blue Angels demonstration pilots to combat the G-forces with muscle contractions. In addition, the Boeing F/A-18’s control stick is mounted between the pilot’s legs. The Blue Angels have a spring tensioned with 35 pounds of pressure installed on the control stick that gives the pilot a “false feel.†This allows the pilot minimal room for uncommanded movement. The pilots rest their right arms on their thighs for support and stability while flying. Therefore, inflating and deflating air bladders in a G-suit would interrupt this support and stability, causing uncommanded aircraft movement. In this case, G-suits would detrimentally impact flight safety.

Wow, I mean seriously, WOW...

So every other acrobatic team in the world (which flies center-sticked aircraft, which is pretty much everyone) is risking flight saftey by wearing their flightsuits?

I really cant see how the blue angels have figured this out whilst every other airforce is clearly operating "dangerously"...

(And this is more a poke at the BA rather than at Messy )

[shinRaiden 0]

i think the FAQ on the blue angels site is quite clear on why they don't use G suits - its a bit of a pointless argument to have.

Quote[/b] ]Why don’t the pilots wear G-suits?

G-suits are designed with air bladders (pockets) that inflate and deflate to keep a pilot’s blood from pooling in the pilots’ legs while executing sharp, unpredicted combat maneuvers. Unlike combat flying, the Blue Angels demonstration pilots know the maneuvers they will fly prior to execution, so each pilot knows when one will be pulling heavy gravitational forces. Anticipating the changes in gravitational forces allows the Blue Angels demonstration pilots to combat the G-forces with muscle contractions. In addition, the Boeing F/A-18’s control stick is mounted between the pilot’s legs. The Blue Angels have a spring tensioned with 35 pounds of pressure installed on the control stick that gives the pilot a “false feel.†This allows the pilot minimal room for uncommanded movement. The pilots rest their right arms on their thighs for support and stability while flying. Therefore, inflating and deflating air bladders in a G-suit would interrupt this support and stability, causing uncommanded aircraft movement. In this case, G-suits would detrimentally impact flight safety.

Wow, I mean seriously, WOW...

So every other acrobatic team in the world (which flies center-sticked aircraft, which is pretty much everyone) is risking flight saftey by wearing their flightsuits?

I really cant see how the blue angels have figured this out whilst every other airforce is clearly operating "dangerously"...

(And this is more a poke at the BA rather than at Messy )

No, it's not the position, I think the tech point there is the loading.

[dm 9]

Well it doesnt make much sense to me.

I dont see how they can quote the stick position and tension as valid reasons not to use g-suits, since the positioning is the same as pretty much every center sticked aircraft, and pretty much every other display team seems to manage fine...

(And yes, I have flight hours, including a lot of aerobatics, in SA Bulldog T1's and Grob G115E Tutor T1's)

[Messiah 2]

(And this is more a poke at the BA rather than at Messy )

was going to say - don't shoot the messenger

[Messiah 2]

*link removed as it was hosted at live leak, which obviously means I risk breaking the rule about linking to sites that contain graphic content, even though the actual video linked didnt*

towards the end of the video you can see number 6 dip below the tree line after performing a tight turn to rejoin with the group - he never resurfaces - you're looking for 1:27 onwards

[Supah 0]

A picture of mine of the jet in happier times

Another guy flying it though.