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Operation Flashpoint 2 officially announced

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I for one, am very excited. Now I've got this AND Game 2 to look forward to, and hopefully, one of those 2 will be amazing (maybe both?).

I really, really think that CM knows to keep the "huge scale" thing on the priority list. Lets not forget that Operation Flashpoint sold a ton of copies, well over a million IIRC, and CM is not going to try to alienate that fanbase. They're saying that they're going to make it "very realistic" and they seem to want to appeal to the fans of the good ol' OFP in that press release. Now... normally, when a game is going to get gutted, they say stuff like "we're trying to make it appeal to more gamers", "we're trying to streamline the gameplay", and other BS. Here, they're saying it's going to be even MORE realistic.

Quotes like this: "Building on the original game’s heritage, Operation Flashpoint™2 will see the most realistic modelling of conflict scenarios in a new contemporary theatre of war. By offering a multitude of military disciplines, gameplay will deliver warfare more realistic and intense then ever before, while an extensive multiplayer component will create battles on an incredible scale." AND "promising warfare on a scale never seen in a FPS" - are not designed to draw in the "boxed-shooter" fans.

I have high hopes. Lets not forget CM was responsible for Resistance (right?) which turned out great.

And yes, competition is a very good thing.

That screenshot looks amazing BTW, I don't know why people are skeptical that it's in-game, this game is coming out in 2008 which is a LONG ways away. Crysis is coming out in only a few months and it looks ridiculously good.

Codies were responsible for Red Hammer, the not-so-good expansion imho. Resistance is BIS' thingy.

I liked RH. It wasn't really an expansion though, just a BIG mission pack. I enjoyed the campagin.

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I think I'm not the only one who really liked red hammer. Sure, it was much more of a one man show than CWC (where the last missions were also far from realistic), but it was fun - and as it was just a little extra campaign, I saw it as an free extra to my gold edition. "Operation Flashpoint 2" on the other hand I have my doubts about:

First the obvious:

- the new engine will have graphics and physics beyond ArmA, but at what cost (map size, number of units/players)?

- Codemasters' approach to games is clearly aimed for the mass marked, realism and long term support come second to shareholders value.

Second:

- Will we have a mission editor as powerfull as we are used to?

- Will the game be as open and customizable as BIS' games?

- This is especially important as the question arises whether it will be easily possible to create high quality custom missions for mp and single player (COOP, or even 'new' types of games like CTI, etc.) - which imo is the strong point of OFP1, VBS and ArmA.

Last but not least:

Due to the new engine we will (IF the game is as open as OFP/VBS/ArmA) have to learn mission making, scripting and modding from scratch again (probably not so much for creating models, but for anything else) - which will take a while, and which I doubt too many will bother with, especially with ArmA around and Game2 in the line. And any game that wants to be around for longer depends on a strong modding community churning out free extra content to keep customers happy.

Also one question arises on top of that: Codies announced OFP2 years ago (more than the two years they claimed to be working on it already). But there hasn't been anything since then. The fact that the first announcement for years comes just at the time when BIS is releasing ArmA to the US market is quite suspicious.

I can't see Operation Flashpoint 2 being a worthy successor of it's BIS-made predecessor, and I fear for the fact that many people will not realize that the two games have nothing in common but the name and the general genre ('military shooter' - i even leave out the 'tactical' part). But lets just wait and see if Codies will come up with something worthwhile playing.

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Glorious news!  A collective sigh of relief I'm sure was breathed at the 2008 release date in BIS land.  

I look forward to any contender in this niche "genre" that has been far to underdeveloped.  

If the game is well made AND has good distribution at release...well only time will tell.

Big shoes to fill, but at least someone is trying.

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I play OFP from the day the demo was released. And I love it. But I've got now great hopes for Codemasters game. Reason? I don't care if the landscapes will be bigger or smaller than in OFP or ARMA. What I hope for is realism of firefights. Let's face it. Some aspects of both OFP and ARMA are totally unrealistic. Once a contact with an enemy is made there's room for next to no tactics. Why? Because firefights last for seconds. Why? Because AI can't take cover, can't be suppressed or pinned down. Can't (I'm talking about original not modded AI) surrender, can't panic, etc. And it is shooting only to kill, not to suppres. And it's deadly accurate. OFP and ARMA allow for strategy but not tactics. I know that most of you guys will jump on me but I liked Brothers in Arms. I know that the game was quite arccadish and corridor-like but it at least tried to portray the real tatcics (4xF). In OFP and ARMA there's nothing like that. I'd love to participate in battles known for example from Close Combat series. Can I in have anything close to attacking a single farm and battling for it for ten minutes with a few wounded soldiers from both sides and withdrawal of the enemy as a result in OFP or ARMA? No. And I hope that I'll have sometime an opportunity to play a game in which I will be able to play role of a squad or platoon (with a few squads under my command) leader. Even if it means that the terrain which would be supported by this game were only 1 square km. And I hope that Codie's game will go this direction (and I like that the soldiers on the screen are apparently taking cover). And I like this statement (I know that it doesn't necessarily have to be true):

"By offering a multitude of military disciplines, gameplay will deliver warfare more realistic..."

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Hate to be cynical..but:

I don't see this as being all that positive. A developer with very deep pockets announces this right as BIS release ArmA in the U.S.? "BIS needs competition". Sure. But how does a small developer (..how long did it take them to get a U.S. publisher?) compete against a massive publisher that can hire any studio(s) to do it's bidding. You think the average gamer chooses gameplay over shiny graphics?

Codemasters wants it's own BF franchise. They're using Flashpoint's name. This can only hurt BIS and the simulation we play. ArmA sales affected..means "Game 2" is affected.

Anyone notice the shifts in the major tactical shooter franchises? Rainbow Six now has revive and is about as popular on consoles than on the PC. The new Ghost Recon with it's "tell you where the enemies are" HUD. A large publisher doesn't sink "2 years of R&D" into a niche tactical shooter.

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A large publisher doesn't sink "2 years of R&D" into a niche tactical shooter.

I don't think CM goes for a 'niche' shooter, so in that respect OFP2 can't be competition and a threat to ArmA.

ArmA = Niche (the Elite if you prefer to call that yourself)

OFP2 = Mainstream (the average as i call myself, with still a liking for some good mature gaming)

(Perhaps on pc you could argue Arma will feel some pressure from OFP2, but on consoles ArmA has no rights whatsoever to claim anything)

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What I hope OFP2 will be:

Hidden & Dangerous 2 singelplayer combined with Red Orchestra in multiplayer, for editing we always have ArmA..

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I play OFP from the day the demo was released. And I love it. But I've got now great hopes for Codemasters game. Reason? I don't care if the landscapes will be bigger or smaller than in OFP or ARMA. What I hope for is realism of firefights. Let's face it. Some aspects of both OFP and ARMA are totally unrealistic. Once a contact with an enemy is made there's room for next to no tactics. Why? Because firefights last for seconds. Why? Because AI can't take cover, can't be suppressed or pinned down. Can't (I'm talking about original not modded AI) surrender, can't panic, etc. And it is shooting only to kill, not to suppres. And it's deadly accurate. OFP and ARMA allow for strategy but not tactics. I know that most of you guys will jump on me but I liked Brothers in Arms. I know that the game was quite arccadish and corridor-like but it at least tried to portray the real tatcics (4xF). In OFP and ARMA there's nothing like that. I'd love to participate in battles known for example from Close Combat series. Can I in have anything close to attacking a single farm and battling for it for ten minutes with a few wounded soldiers from both sides and withdrawal of the enemy as a result in OFP or ARMA? No. And I hope that I'll have sometime an opportunity to play a game in which I will be able to play role of a squad or platoon (with a few squads under my command) leader. Even if it means that the terrain which would be supported by this game were only 1 square km. And I hope that Codie's game will go this direction (and I like that the soldiers on the screen are apparently taking cover). And I like this statement (I know that it doesn't necessarily have to be true):

"By offering a multitude of military disciplines, gameplay will deliver warfare more realistic..."

Good post, I completly agree. I have also hopes for OFP2, because this is another chance to see a game with that sort of gameplay.

Considering that there has been almost zero gameplay change and few design improvement from OFP to ArmA I got a little less enthusiastic about Game2. While this seems to strive for another revolution in the scale of games with RPG elements and a dynamic campaign etc., after ArmA I wonder how willing BIS is to improve the core gameplay and design of the series.

So Codemasters might bring in some fresh ideas with OFP2. Even if it wont be as large and free as OFP/ArmA it wont bother me as much. I would gladly change some of the large scale for a better core gameplay. Let's wait and see.

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I think Codemasters and console players in general have a different idea of what is realistic and what not then the rest of us. Console players think Ghost Recon Arcade Warfighter is realistic, that says enough.

I know a bunch of great franchises that got run into the ground by shitty console port attempts, Thief, Deus Ex, Ghost Recon, R6 to just name a few. A console is very limiting on a game, from controls to size to complexity, these all suffer on consoles. Simply because you don't play a console to spend your time sneaking around in the bushes (like After Montignac). You play it for fast Battlefield 2 type action. People don't buy complex games for consoles.

It's not possible to have a complex game on consoles, simply because of the shitty controllers. How are you going to aim at little dots 500m away with a controler stick? You won't have to, Flashpoint 2 won't be anything like OFP was. It will be far from realistic. It'll be another action game. Oh it'll be polished and pretty i'm sure and the physics and AI will be great, but fuck if that game will actually be realistic in it's gameplay i'll eat my hat.

It'll be GRAW, only maybe with slightly bigger maps and more vehicles.

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What OFP and ARMA don't have realistic is precisely the gameplay. They do have realistic rules - one bullet can kill, bullet penetration, whole the ballistics, let's agree that driving/flying vehicles is realistic too, etc. but they don't have realistic AI which would be able to utilise the rules. AI have realistic weapons but they don't know how to use them and how to take cover from them. What is more, the games also have realistic units of all sorts (infantry, planes, tanks, soft vehicles) but they lack any communication with each other. You can place two infantry squads and a plane in the editor but one of the squad won't call for support from the other squad or from the plane in reallistic manner unless you script it. And good scripts aren't provided by BIS, and those user-made are far from being perfect. And it's mainly because it's hard to predict all the possible scenarios the mission can take to make procedures for them. (Yes, I've tried almost all of them, including all the GroupLinks, Bremmer's scripts, VME's scripts, ECP's ones etc. With regard to the famous 'Guard' waypoint I agree that it makes AI smarter than without it, but it doesn't mean it makes the AI behave in a realistic manner). And the AI utilising the realistic rules gives you a realistic gameplay. Without it you will only have realistic rules without realistic gameplay.

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I am not a codemasters fan (I don't like the way publishers conduct business in the gaming industry in general) but I think their developper team deserves the chance to show their take on this niche genre as well as the new console generation deserves the chance to expand to new genres that were PC-only before.

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Console players think Ghost Recon Arcade Warfighter is realistic

Nope you are wrong

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people should boycott codemasters OFP2

a) for hijacking the title

b) for being total morons

c) cause i lack a proper reason..

honestly

just telling from the pic on the first page..

c´mon.. that looks like a graw/bf2 bastard-child..

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Codemasters made a lot of money from OFP (which must have helped bring a smile to the shareholders faces) I don't think they are that stupid to dumb down a proven money earner.

If anything I would not be surprised if OFP II bares a close resemblance to the original but with substantial visual improvements.

I'm looking forward to the anticipated release, competition in our area of gaming only benefits us in the long run, it will add drive to the developers of these type of games to add features that better their completion so hopefully its a win win situation for us.

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Yeah I agree, the competition will only be good in my opinion, and with OFP sales I think they are well aware of the preasure and potential expectations that players will have.

But I will reserve my judgement (unlike others) until I have seen more screens and better yet a video.

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good graphics there. I guess it must be ingame since lighting and overall look do match the pics of colin mcrae dirt which uses the same engine... Its perfectly possible that they manage to have good ai. codemasters is a big company and they can put big teams on those subjects... competition is good. Imho ArmA was a disappointment, I hope this will make BIS work better on game2...

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maybe have a change on th subject of the big question:

What makes you think that they are not going to dumb it down?

in the matter of fact i think i should simply go for VBS2, there are too much dirts on my ArmA copy mad_o.gif

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in the matter of fact i think i should simply go for VBS2, there are too much dirts on my ArmA copy mad_o.gif

Yup 2000$ makes it very affordable biggrin_o.gif

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OPF2 (fcking dipshits with name rights) from codemasters will be a BF2/GR arcade warfighter clone. Mark my words.  yay.gif Did I say that it's going to be released on consoles as well?  rofl.gif  rofl.gif  What a fcking joke.

If you're true to what you are and what you enjoyed over the past 6 years, you will stay neutral at best. Don't believe the hype. 'Screenshot' is artwork by the way, main scenery at least.

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maybe have a change on th subject of the big question:

What makes you think that they are not going to dumb it down?

in the matter of fact i think i should simply go for VBS2, there are too much dirts on my ArmA copy mad_o.gif

why are you so obsessed with VBS2... what do you believe it offers you above ArmA... you're simply wasting your money IMHO.

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I'd have to agree with Messiah with regards to VBS2. Just check out the VBS1 forums (oh shit you can't unless you've bought it) you'll see its pratically dead.

I'm not impressed with the units either as there just VBS1 units which i've already got. Paying $1500 for a simulation which uses the exact same engine as ArmA (bugged to fcuk), you have to be f***ing nuts

Ontopic.

I welcome any contender to this simulation genre. And reading the press release that said Codemasters wern't happy with the slow way BIS worked on the game just made me laugh. Hell, it took them 2 years to release ArmA which is Flashpoint ver 1.5 and it was still bugged to shit.

If i'm honest the only reason i play ArmA for is because it's the only one of its' kind.

If there were even one more game similar to ArmA do you think this community would be as big.

Bottom line is, that if this OFP2 game turns out to be bloody good, BIS are in for a tough ride.

Like someone already wrote, it's time for BIS to show us gamers that Codemasters arn't the only ones working on a sequal.

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There was a video footage on the german GameStar TV about the title with an interview with the developers.

Summary (from someone at armed-assault.de who saw it):

* the screenie is ingame material apparently

* the dev team consists of 150 people working since 2 years on the title (which i doubt)

* definitely, it won't be a BF2-alike. It will be a hardcore sim just like OFP1 with big improvements in terms of AI and team leadership

* very big battlefields (in scales, never seen before) :lol:

* there will be a nice background story with characters

* a preview will be presented on the GC 2007 in Leipzig

Regards

Let the competition begin

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Just one thing in CM`s Flashpoint 2 would and can eat ArmA...and it's physics in which ArmA lacks havely!.

I rely on Game2 as it comes with BI`s new engine, I remember I've read somewere it will use havoc engine physics!.

This way both in OpF and ArmA all objects and vehicles get me feeling they have same weight. huh.gif

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Todays GameStar TV had a report on OFP2. I haven't seen it myself, but here is a small overview from Lightman:

http://hx3.de/communi....t173602

Thanks Lightman for his summary. Rough translation:

-It seems the screenshot is indeed in game graphic. See also the graphic familiarity with Colin McRae Dirt.

-The development team is 150 men strong and the title is in development for 2 years.

-According to codemasters this wont be a ego-shooter a la BF2, rather a full blown simulation with embassy on novel AI features and team leadership.

-The battlefield should reach a size never seen before.

-The player should experience a in depth story and care about his teammates.

-On this years Games Convention in Leipzig OFP2 will have it's first grand presentation.

Please keep in mind that this is a translation of a summary of a report about the impressions after a talk with the programmers of OFP2... wink_o.gif

Sounds interesting.

Edit: Too slow smile_o.gif

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Todays GameStar TV had a report on OFP2. I haven't seen it myself, but here is a small overview from Lightman:

http://hx3.de/communi....t173602

Thanks Lightman for his summary. Rough translation:

-It seems the screenshot is indeed in game graphic. See also the graphic familiarity with Colin McRae Dirt.

-The development team is 150 men strong and the title is in development for 2 years.

-According to codemasters this wont be a ego-shooter a la BF2, rather a full blown simulation with embassy on novel AI features and team leadership.

-The battlefield should reach a size never seen before.

-The player should experience a in depth story and care about his teammates.

-On this years Games Convention in Leipzig OFP2 will have it's first grand presentation.

Please keep in mind that this is a translation of a summary of a report about the impressions after a talk with the programmers of OFP2... wink_o.gif

Sounds interesting.

Edit: Too slow smile_o.gif

i was faster nener.gif

on topic:

i doubt, that it will so open in terms of customizability like the BIS-titles.

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