ARMA Morealism, adding Ultra realism...

[icebreakr 3159]

dirtylarrygb: thats a bit difficult... example: yesterday a evac chopper got shotdown (me playing as a pilot) and when it hit the ground in middle of the village i took 9 civilians with me... does that make me a bad person?

[dirtylarrygb 0]

I just thought of the SWAT series, and most recently SWAT 4 + The Stetchkov Syndicate. There you have clear rules of engagement that you need to follow (shout "Police! Drop your weapons!") before killing anyone, not injure civilians etc.) if you want to succeed. You need a certain score to advance, and that score is pretty high on higher difficulty settings.

In SWAT 4 there are a lot of civilians. Some are shot by terrorists if you don't save them, some cooperate immediately, some cooperate but complain when you cuff them (it's procedure to cuff everyone) with comments like "Hey! We're not the terrorists!". Others simply refuse to cooperate, and run away, simply refuse to turn their backs and kneel, or even start to fight back if you push them. You have to beat them into submission somehow, and at the same time worry about terrorists. There are a lot of people that hate the police without being terrorists, and this makes the missions more dynamic since civilians doesn't all behave the same. And there are women in the game (but not children, except one mission where a mad cult had killed and buried all their children in the basement, but you only saw graves), and I especially remember a mission where I had to slap an old woman around and spray her with tear gas to get her to cooperate so we could advance and eliminate her son, which had kidnapped some people.

The terrorists are also similarly different in behaviour. Some throw down their weapons and kneel down as soon as the police arrives. Others need some shouting to comply, while others need to taste some less than lethal weapons to comply. Others need a bullet in the leg, while some never surrender and you have to kill them before they reach a hostage or kill you.

I'm sure it's possible to implement some of this to a war game like ArmA, obviously with some modification since you only have lethal weapons in war, and you don't have the same ROE.

Your right Swat did deal with some of the issues. in some respects Swat has pushed the idea forward. The lastest Splinter Cell featured a few moral choices that effect the campaing. but in both cases in a limited manor. Both light years ahead of everything else.

I have wondered if the Oblivion charm mini game, used to pursuade a AI characeter in oblivion to get info could be used here.

Also the bringing of food and medical supplies may win a town over.

People who want run and gun, dont play a Moreal mission.

[sickboy 13]

I always have the problem that adding civilians into missions make them actually a lot LESS realistic...

Why?

Sure Civilians in Cities is realistic...

But would they remain in the area when army troops appear? Would they simply be laying down near some firefight?

Would they keep driving in circles in their car around firefights?

No, no, no

IMHO the Civilian stuff are nice ideas but if you want to add them for Realism then I guess there has to be an AI written for them that makes them really act as civilian etc

[vilas 477]

error

[Stugwi 0]

Americas Army the game uses a R.O.E (Rules Of Engagement) system to combat teamkilling. A player also gets ROE if he/she engages a civilian.

A player gets more ROE points per hit the closer he is to the friendly.

Players ROE points limit is set by admin.

If a player exceeds the ROE points limit he/she is automatically kicked of the server and finds themselves in a virtual jail

If say the ROE limit is 250 points and a player has accumalted 200 points so far he or she is more likely to be carefull to prevent being kiked of the server.

This system works and i thiink would be a good

[dirtylarrygb 0]

dirtylarrygb: thats a bit difficult... example: yesterday a evac chopper got shotdown (me playing as a pilot) and when it hit the ground in middle of the village i took 9 civilians with me... does that make me a bad person?

Hence a random generator, headlines could have read.

Negative, Your side gets blame, things look bad, your sides airpower gets grounded for 5 mins. You sit in jail for 5 mins.

Neutral, headlines sound bad but no game effects come into play bar your banned from flying for 5 mins.

Positive, you crashed! SLA got blame their AA out of action for 5 mins.

random generator judges the crash in urban area and reports a random result that effects gameplay. The scripts or moreal mod has info on areas and when you crash it runs a random generator. Generally most result are nuetral.

[dirtylarrygb 0]

I always have the problem that adding civilians into missions make them actually a lot LESS realistic...

Why?

Sure Civilians in Cities is realistic...

But would they remain in the area when army troops appear? Would they simply be laying down near some firefight?

Would they keep driving in circles in their car around firefights?

No, no, no

IMHO the Civilian stuff are nice ideas but if you want to add them for Realism then I guess there has to be an AI written for them that makes them really act as civilian etc

Would they remain?

hence a random generator produces headlines when buildings are destroyed. Going in gung ho with a tank, plane, chopper could land you in the crap. (or not).

Most of the time (this is war) you may not even get a headline. When you do most are neutral. But sometime you get a positive or negative result like above that can effect gameplay for either side.

So without adding hundreds of civvies to map suddenly the whole world is populated. Areas are defined as civvie by moreal missions.

Actual civilans can be added as side missions to any actual mission they spwan ask for help, escort etc.

[alext223 0]

Great idea, especially with the wounded troops, it is a bit wrong to shoot a wounded man, but hey, were all dead men walking. But one problem, how many hours of addons and scripting are going to be needed, and, (Not saying there aren't dedicated people out there to see this through.) does everone have a desktop with the grunt to cope withl all the added units? If certian aspects could be chosen to a players prefrence and sys specs', then I think you would have a keen crowd out there and only people who have no idea would shun the idea. Would like to see this in action one day, would deffinently add a new aspect to the game. Good luck.

P.S. Went to see my relos in Bosnia 2 years ago, if anyone thinks war is just about soldiers only, get your bloody head checked. Good luck with this mod.

[vilas 477]

morality in games hahahahahaha

dirty lary

such behaviour in game will make game unfunny

ARMA is game, not police simulator/trainer

game is for fun, for enjoy, to unreact stress of everyday life, work etc.

if you will make such game noone will play it

for my good game is game where i can destroy all and just shoot without any

problems

i played SWAT once and only once

such games are boring, in real life and work of policeman you must be nice

to criminals, you cannot shoot rapist or burglar because he have human rights

(although he doesn't respect others) , so lets at least in game kill them all

game is for enjoy not to make stress "where do i aim"

and why in mission you propose only SLA killing civilians ?

and west only saving - it is US propaganda

western world countries were invading other countries too and still invading, they are not "saints"

in my campaign SLA rescue north republic against US invasion, because US wanna take their natural materials (south has oil, north has other things) :P

propaganda are only lies, i hate propaganda because i hate liers :P

you try making propaganda and brain wash ?

let me tell you something:

when in our eastern block communism was falling we all were lied that after "freedom will come" all will be good and everyone will be rich,

and after that we have homeless people , we have poverty and hungry people, we had 20% of unemployment, mother of my friend commited suicide because they had no job, no food, it was in 1993

some people are without medical care, we have corruption, we have unemployment, we have mafia , before 1989 we

had flats for free, medical care for free, no unemployment, no homeless, no hungry children in shool, no shootings on the streets, no fear of going to night walk to city, because criminal acts level was very low ! Militia knew all, now Police have such rights that they can do nothing, if someone will stole from you thing under 49 euro it is called "low danger crime level" and it is no panished nor hunted

criminals have many right, they can lie in face of court, they can hide their data under privacy low, their advocate can find personal data of all witness - we haven't had such things before 1989

so at least in game i am stopping west invasion, do you wanna make it forbidden too ?

man, when you talk about morality, you mean "pro US=good" "anti US=bad" ?

what kind of morality is it ?

who was sending special forces to kill leaders which won in democtratic elections during cold war in africa or south america , to replace them by new ?

KGB ?

who was keeping racial politics "only for white" , USSR ?

who was ruling colonys ?

you want some names ? don't talk with such propaganda man !

if you wanna make moral game than i can give some objectives:

- objective one, sell your luxury car and give poor children food and books to school

- if you still driving car which destroy ozon (smoke a lot of fuel) 5 minutes of generated pause untill you will change car to ecological

- second objective - find old man in city and take him to dentist (becuse his salary is too small), if not 2 minutes of pause in game

- third objective - find job for poor girl who prostitute, because her family has no job and her sister needs money for anti-cancer drugs

- four objective - nato rocket bombed house, rebuild that

larry - do you like this kind of missions ?

i hope moderator won't be angry, i always can delete this post if it too much offtopic sorry, but such nonsense i read here makes me angry

every killing is bad, no matter east or west butthis is just GAME not LIFE man !

this is just game, one site shoot to another site and thats all

if you will try "fun" turn into propaganda - i am out !

[USSRsniper 0]

About mission endings, its possible to make them, and you are welcome to make them. And also thx BIS we also can have ending influencing next mission in campagin. But you are not going to influence anyone just by saying that this would be better, if you make few examples in actual game, then everyone will be "OMG! how i didt think about this, i will have this in my missions too" or you will get "This is simple crap".

But putting players in jail, this is too much. This is game....... If you want real war join army! and you will see how "fun" it is.... because what you said about everyone should stop fighting when somebody is hit... you just contradicted yourself about realism      

[HulkingUnicorn 0]

Quote[/b] ]

But about children... even a fairly mature game like Vampire: Bloodlines, where you do stuff like enter a strip joint and butcher a stripper with a fire axe before you suck her blood, doesn't have any children in it. The only game I can remember that had children you can kill is Icewind Dale. A lot of games have cows and dogs you can kill, though.

Heh, play Ultima VII: The Black Gate - you can kill children, women, chickens, cows and even babies  

If you did, you'd get in trouble though, guards assaulting you (most civilians running away in fear) and putting you in jail if you are 'caught' (read: killed). There would also be the risk of completely ruining your game by breaking quests etc.

It's a fairly old game though, so I see your point.

Back to ArmA though:

I'm not a fan of the 'clear the city' stuff, way too tedious. Focused objectives should be the norm, in my opinion. Even better the ones that let you approach the objective in different ways (ie infiltrating and kill one guy vs head on assault slaughter).

Also, if you place a target that's hard to kill (say an officer in a heavily fortified complex), most people will usually try to blow it up. If nearby buildings housed civilians or an animal rescue center they might think twice about that

[froggyluv 2136]

I don't think his point was -" I get to kill women,dogs and babies now yeah!" nor propaganda for US forces. There are plenty of games in which the lead character's loved one is killed to add an element of emotion to the game. One of the best SP Missions for OFP, "Abandoned Armies" does exactly that by having your character's niece abused and murdered with aid of US forces and no one was crying foul over this. I very much enjoyed that mission as there was a strong revenge element which gave an urgency to completing the mission and getting some payback.

I don't know about the 'going to jail' thing but I think there are other ways to penalize the player for unlawful killing. Maybe a 'tactical points' system which unlocks or locks features such as artillery accordingly. Reckless use of WMD's would result in punishment for one side giving tactical advantage to the other.

Edit- Larry I just noticed you had these kind of penalties at the bottom of your pic's. Very nice and totally support!

[sickboy 13]

Would they remain?

hence a random generator produces headlines when buildings are destroyed.  Going in gung ho with a tank, plane, chopper could land you in the crap.  (or not).

Most of the time (this is war) you may not even get a headline.  When you do most are neutral.  But sometime you get a positive or negative result like above that can effect gameplay for either side.

So without adding hundreds of civvies to map suddenly the whole world is populated.  Areas are defined as civvie by moreal missions.

Actual civilans can be added as side missions to any actual mission they spwan ask for help, escort etc.

Ok, nice idea on the building stuff, while there are no real civilians. Altough I can not understand how we can speak abour Realism if there are no Civs, aswell as "Ask for Escort" etc, now im not a war-specialist and all, but I Don't think civs will ask and get such support from the Army or am I wrong?

If i'm going next to the point, please say so!

[GAU-8 0]

vilas,

this is a military SIMULATION...so yes, behaving as world "police" is a basic understanding. dont like to act like police..then dont. just because we want to doesnt mean you have to. kill all in meaningless style (as you said..meant to be fun)

allthough you can do WHATEVER YOU WANT in this sim...even boom boom boom. with no feeling, going for a fragfest if you wish. such as in your case.

this sim is a "thinking/stategist persons" vehicle to en/re-enact how ever they wish. just because posters have SLA as bad, doesnt mean you cant have the US as bad. or vice versa.

sorry for your hard times in the past, but as they say "you are master of your own destiny" most people who have a crappy life, usually blame others first rather than (or never) themselves.... bringing political backlash into this isnt the proper place either. are you right? maybe... but thats not what were here for. we have ideas for expanding the SIM, and this is one way to do so. if YOU dont like it as such, enable the settings for how you like to "GAME".

[HulkingUnicorn 0]

I don't think his point was -" I get to kill women,dogs and babies now yeah!" nor propaganda for US forces.

I'm guessing that was directed at me

I didn't get that impression either, but if these can be killed you can be motivated to protect them (if they are invincible, why should care if a shell goes astray?)

[dirtylarrygb 0]

morality in games hahahahahaha

dirty lary

such behaviour in game will make game unfunny

ARMA is game, not police simulator/trainer

game is for fun, for enjoy, to unreact stress of everyday life, work etc.

if you will make such game noone will play it

for my good game is game where i can destroy all and just shoot without any

problems

i played SWAT once and only once

such games are boring, in real life and work of policeman you must be nice

to criminals, you cannot shoot rapist or burglar because he have human rights

(although he doesn't respect others) , so lets at least in game kill them all

game is for enjoy not to make stress "where do i aim"

and why in mission you propose only SLA killing civilians ?

and west only saving - it is US propaganda

western world countries were invading other countries too and still invading, they are not "saints"

in my campaign SLA rescue north republic against US invasion, because US wanna take their natural materials (south has oil, north has other things) :P

propaganda are only lies, i hate propaganda because i hate liers :P

you try making propaganda and brain wash ?

let me tell you something:

when in our eastern block communism was falling we all were lied that after "freedom will come" all will be good and everyone will be rich,

and after that we have homeless people , we have poverty and hungry people, we had 20% of unemployment, mother of my friend commited suicide because they had no job, no food, it was in 1993

some people are without medical care, we have corruption, we have unemployment, we have mafia , before 1989 we

had flats for free, medical care for free, no unemployment, no homeless, no hungry children in shool, no shootings on the streets, no fear of going to night walk to city, because criminal acts level was very low ! Militia knew all, now Police have such rights that they can do nothing, if someone will stole from you thing under 49 euro it is called "low danger crime level" and it is no panished nor hunted

criminals have many right, they can lie in face of court, they can hide their data under privacy low, their advocate can find personal data of all witness - we haven't had such things before 1989

so at least in game i am stopping west invasion, do you wanna make it forbidden too ?

man, when you talk about morality, you mean "pro US=good" "anti US=bad" ?

what kind of morality is it ?

who was sending special forces to kill leaders which won in democtratic elections during cold war in africa or south america , to replace them by new ?

KGB ?

who was keeping racial politics "only for white" , USSR ?

who was ruling colonys ?

you want some names ? don't talk with such propaganda man !

if you wanna make moral game than i can give some objectives:

- objective one, sell your luxury car and give poor children food and books to school

- if you still driving car which destroy ozon (smoke a lot of fuel) 5 minutes of generated pause untill you will change car to ecological

- second objective - find old man in city and take him to dentist (becuse his salary is too small), if not 2 minutes of pause in game

- third objective - find job for poor girl who prostitute, because her family has no job and her sister needs money for anti-cancer drugs

- four objective - nato rocket bombed house, rebuild that

larry - do you like this kind of missions ?

i hope moderator won't be angry, i always can delete this post if it too much offtopic sorry, but such nonsense i read here makes me angry

every killing is bad, no matter east or west butthis is just GAME not LIFE man !

this is just game, one site shoot to another site and thats all

if you will try "fun" turn into propaganda - i am out !

You make some good point Villas, but Moreal is about the player and his team not saying the Us side or Communist side are the good/bad guys. headline generation works for Both sides SLA and OPF.

Basically both sides of the island are split into two. Any action by SLA in the south has a modifier that it there is a better chance for OPF/US to score a Postive result (headline and game effect) and vice vs.

Niether side is good or bad, but the headlines change depending on the side you are playing.

Both sides have the same moral codes, either side gets the same rules for killing civvies, the wounded, destroying civvie objects, team kills etc. The way they are reported may differ.

Arma simulates modern regular trained forces NOT insergents freedom fighters etc. These professionaly trained soldiers don't want to kill civilians the wounded etc would be bound by the Genvea Convention etc.

As above, the player crashed by accident in a town in a "Moreal" mission this could result in nothing happening or 1 of the 3 headlines above. The game results could have been his own sides air power get grounded for 5 mins (NEGATIVE) and he goes to jail for 5 mins or he goes to jail for upto 1 min (NEUTRAL) or the enemys AA get switched of for five mins (POSTIVE).

If he crashed behind his lines there is a better chance for a neutral or postive effect. If he crashed behind enemy lines there a bigger chance for a negative effect. This simulates the enemy can engineer the media to their own advantage and vice verse.

In modern combat the media are everywhere, Lebabnon, Iraqi, Afganistan etc etc.

In WW2 all press was filter and approved, now its instant on the web the only spin is added by Editors.

These simple simulations add the effect of the world media and politics to ARMA and make it very realistic. You can shoot anything you want. But sometimes it can blow up in your face and hurt your side. Sometimes doing something "wrong" could actually penalise the other side.

Example would be a M1 blows up a building trying to shoot a t72 in a town, theres a 2% in 100% chance you the "offender" gets a postive effect. You see a headline saying the SLA bombed the house and THEIR air power has been grounded for 5 mins. You blew up the house they got the blame, this simulates how modern combat REALLY works.

Also TV stations become targets because if you can stop the other guy getting the news out, you might be able to control the world media better.

Headlines have about a 50% chance of appearing if:

You destroy civilain property.

You attack Civilian units.

You team kill.

You attack a Medic.

You attack the wounded.

You suicide.

you achieve or fail a mission objective.

occasionally big headlines may appear (mainly linked with mission objectives) with either big positives or negatives for either team.

Still the same ARMA, but suddenly with added realistic gameplay.

yes you do have to think a bit more carefully about going gung-ho, but thats what real soldiers have to deal with.

Moreal simulates Conservative and liberal values, its shows the spin added in war sometimes its just, sometimes its even unfair. It's more like real life.

The above "headlines" simulated what a US player would have seen. Note the negative one and nuetral one still balmes the western side even in the western media. The east side will act the same. but as a western pilot crashed the western media reported it. I'll make some eastern ones next.

Remeber the team your on in ARMA is the good guys.

The missions you suggest can be headlines for the above, and they work for either side.

Car turns into, OFP destroy a warehouse, Headline reads the place stored abestoes and chemicals, local population affected world media demand clean up. All OPF trucks/cars stop moving for 5 mins as they are helping in clean up.

Old man dentist, turns into, man asks for medical help in a town (side mission). If he is escorted to medical tent or medic your sides spawn counter is set to 0 seconds for 5 mins, if you don't help him you sides respawn counters is set to 2 min for 5 mins.

poor girl, destroy a civilian target in a town a headline reads girls family killed she has resorted to prostiution to be able to eat. World media angry. You side gets -100% to all civilian inetractions or rolls for any event for five mins. e.g. make any mistake you going to get a NEGATIVE result.

bomb house, this was kinda covered above by the crashed blackhawk, it either resulted in the pilot going to VR jail fr 5 mins and all airpower forced to land for 5 mins for your team, almost no effect, or the others sides AA switched of for 5 mins!

In general Morealism has little effect on shooting Enemy units. But TK's destroying civilan units or buildings, suicides, killing the wounded can have little effect to massive game changing effects for a period of time.

Actual missions very much like now. This moreal headline and game effects add a more realistic feel to the game.

[og.. 0]

Quote[/b] ]I don't know about the 'going to jail' thing but I think there are other ways to penalize the player for unlawful killing. Maybe a 'tactical points' system which unlocks or locks features such as artillery accordingly. Reckless use of WMD's would result in punishment for one side giving tactical advantage to the other

Another way to implement a penalty is to add respawn to the side which is sided with the resistance forces. Kill one civ - one respawn, two civs - four respawns. etc.

[bootleg soldier 2]

Hi Vilas.

Wanted to resond to your post in this thread, It is off topic and i don't want to get into a flame war etc in someone elses thread.

You do make one or two good points but the style of what you have written makes me believe that you have been itching to get your comments off your chest for some time and have been waiting for such a chance to air them in public.

Unfortunately you have completly missed the concept of what larry is trying to achieve and the purpose of the headlines is for both sides in not west is great etc etc.

Your comments on world politics i wll not rise to as just because western politics and actions are scrutinised closer than any one else in the world it seems all other countries go west is bad west is bad oops forgot to look at ourselves and the two faced politics we also yeild (want names? )

Look at Iran as an example, they had an idea that they needed to look better in the eyes of the world after being condemmed from all sides for there frankly terrible political actions, and they kidnap 15 people parade them around release them after two weeks after realising it's not getting them anywhere, they then have the cheek to say it's a gift when in reality they had no choice.

How will the worlds media view this, well you can bet your life if a Western country did this there would be uproar, as it is people seem to go oh it's Iran they do this all the time, and if it's the BBC they basically put out a banner saying "We love Iran".

I really respect the work you are doing on ArmA with your addons etc but it might be an idea to keep the grittier details of your political opinons in your campaign so we have a choice whether to laugh at them or not, as i say you completly missed the concept of what Larry was doing and just saw hate and (in your eyes) propaganda. Keep up the good work on your addons and if you want a proper political debate PM me and we can discuss the world's troubles on our own time.

Best regards

Bootleg

[dirtylarrygb 0]

Would they remain?

hence a random generator produces headlines when buildings are destroyed. Going in gung ho with a tank, plane, chopper could land you in the crap. (or not).

Most of the time (this is war) you may not even get a headline. When you do most are neutral. But sometime you get a positive or negative result like above that can effect gameplay for either side.

So without adding hundreds of civvies to map suddenly the whole world is populated. Areas are defined as civvie by moreal missions.

Actual civilans can be added as side missions to any actual mission they spwan ask for help, escort etc.

Ok, nice idea on the building stuff, while there are no real civilians. Altough I can not understand how we can speak abour Realism if there are no Civs, aswell as "Ask for Escort" etc, now im not a war-specialist and all, but I Don't think civs will ask and get such support from the Army or am I wrong?

If i'm going next to the point, please say so!

I'm wondering apart having civs in certain parts of missions, that they can spawn on certain events or times and ask for help.

For instance your clearing a city a civ spawns and ask you for help to get medical aid for his family. You then trott off to nearest medical tent, this simulates you getting him an medi evac etc.

A random generator then might give you something good or nothing for doing this. If you fail something bad may happen.

Jail terms are rare but come a real possibilty if you build up attrition points. Say during a mission you kill3 civs, blow up 5 civ buildings and fail a side mission. Then you have about 25 "Warcrime" points. At that point any action moves to a second script were suddenly the negatives outcomes become more often and far harseher to YOu personally. Idea being gung ho team mates and TK'ers etc spend time in jail. Not the team.

In essence Moreal is like a Trading card game add on for arma. The trading cards have rules on why they appear and negative/nurtral and postive outcomes for players and teams. A second set of points Team and player based may also effect can also effect the maths behind the cards (headlines) appearing.

Basically same old coop missions, but even rules that get applied globally and have effects. And give a simulation of the Media and Politics applied to ARMA.

[froggyluv 2136]

Hey this would finally give those UN troops something to do  

commit atrocity in their vicinity and penalty double/triples.

Larry is this something your actually working on or just throwing the idea out there?

See ya at the Tribunal in The Hague  

[dirtylarrygb 0]

Quote[/b] ]I don't know about the 'going to jail' thing but I think there are other ways to penalize the player for unlawful killing. Maybe a 'tactical points' system which unlocks or locks features such as artillery accordingly. Reckless use of WMD's would result in punishment for one side giving tactical advantage to the other

Another way to implement a penalty is to add respawn to the side which is sided with the resistance forces. Kill one civ - one respawn, two civs - four respawns. etc.

Yep thats another good idea, jail is more for the players who are trying to push the limits of the system. or keep team killing.

The main point of the system is that you arn't always punished, it fact often nothing happens. No one knows about your misdead.

Team "misdeed" points can accumulate over a mission and have an effect on on rolls or even on the outcome of the mission.

So before I write one line of code here is a suggested score Misdeed system.

Misdeed points are personal and ALSO accumulate for your team.

Teamkill per kill 2 points

Civilian Kill 1 point

Civilian Building 1 point

Civilian medical building or school 2 points

wounded soldier 1 point

surrender soldier 1 point

POW 2 points

Medical unit 2 points

Suicide 1 point

Killing a journalist 5 points

Side mission failure 5 points

Objective Failure 10 points

Negative Misdeeds:

Taking a POW +2 points

med evacing a wounded enemy soldier +2 points

Side mission succes +5 points

Objective Success +10 points

Misdeed points are always shown on your personal score, and your personal points are added to the team points.

Negative Misdeeds only affect the team score and can reduce it only back to zero.

A few notes:

TK's hurt more than almost anything as media reports of Freindly Fire demoralises nations and makes people not support a war. People in general get more upset over Freindly fire in the media that they do over civilian deaths of people from another country.

Killing a journalist is even worse as the worlds press can turn on you, the high score reflects the fact that the media blame you and will start finding negative aspects to everything you do. Journalist units could be placed on a map. but also random civilian building kills occasionaly will be reported as a member of the world press was in that building and was killed by your "gung ho" actions.

Super Negative and Positive:

A roll of 1 or 100 on the random generator means a super event happens and the score is x5. A famous civilian was killed or lots civilians in one building, or the tk or wounded soldier killed was caught on camera. These are rare but there to remind players although you can get away with it you might not. They also work as in the soldier captured was the brother of the other sides leader etc.

Most important is the fact barring TK's every other event will only score 50% of the time. As this is war and these things happen and often no one notices. Barring TK's as your own side tend to notice them.

These scores act as modifiers on the events that trigger headlines. The more misdeed points you have and your team have the more chance a result can be negative.

Your misdeed points + teams misdeed points convert to a pecentage with is added to the chance of a NEGATIVE result on a headline.

example you have 10 misdeed you team has 78 this would convert to a +20% chance of a negative roll for any even you trigger.

Negative Headline has game effects for your team so you generally want to avoid them.

The idea of a warcriminal is palyer who gets say 35 points or over. he is really making things hard for the team so they get to vote.

options:

Executed for crimes agaisnt humanity "kicked from match"

Life in jail "10 mins in jail"

Life with parole "5 mins in jail"

Kicked from service "1 min in jail"

innocent No penalty

Only your own team gets to vote. Basically as this guy is getting alot of Misdeed points you get to decide if he is being a bastard or not and what his fate is.

His rap card would show what he got the points for. So a total team killer gets the firing squad. And unlucky pilot who crashed with a full load of men might be found innocent.

[dirtylarrygb 0]

Hey this would finally give those UN troops something to do

commit atrocity in their vicinity and penalty double/triples.

Larry is this something your actually working on or just throwing the idea out there?

See ya at the Tribunal in The Hague

Im working on the points system, how the rolls would would what the triggers are.

this then mean I have to generate several hundred headlines. that artwork then uses a MOD or clever scripts to power them with a guide on how to apply them to current or future made single player or multiplayer missions.

Right Morealism and its misdeed points is in the planning stages. Once I have generated the artwork of the headlines then I will ask for help with a mod or scripts to power them.

From what i have been reading much of this is possible with scripts.

[froggyluv 2136]

I think you've really touched on something here that I know at least myself has been really longing for. I think too many of the battles in ARMA feel in a vacuum, that is not really connected to anything which brings a lifelessness to the overall feeling. If '2 is down' in my squad, i don't really care except to learn from which direction the enemy is firing. Voices help somewhat when someone goes down a la ECP;SLX etc... "I'm Hit! Help!" but more is definitely needed.

Good luck with project.

[d3dsh33p 0]

Hey this would finally give those UN troops something to do

commit atrocity in their vicinity and penalty double/triples.

Larry is this something your actually working on or just throwing the idea out there?

See ya at the Tribunal in The Hague

yes the U.N. troops could rape women in south sara also just like in real life

[-CS-SOBR-1st-I-R- 0]

Although I must confess that this is some how a neat idea, I'm not sure if I could / would want to live with that.

This would complicate things a lot... and would probably after a while step on everyone's nerves and soon you have another thread pleading BIS to remove it again.

But on the other hand I remember that something "funny" was announced for Game 2. If for example one of your mates tells you about his Girlfriend and how she cheated on him, the decision wether you listen to him or now will affect his feeling and thus his combat performance in battles.

But again.... ArmA players play the game mostely in MP, honestely not many very or really expereinced users play ArmA in SP or campaign. Maybe every now and then again.

So all this civilian protection system or whatever would have no great effect.

One other point is that the community of ArmA/OFP is pretty much adult, this means that we dont run around and frag and rape enemies like in other games (namely CS, BF2) but love tactics and most professional ArmA gamers tend to save civilians.

my 2 cents