CIA: A government inside a government.

[Assault (CAN) 1]

I was reading this article at etherzone.com and found this:

I think this ties in wonderfully with what I am trying to say about the problems with U.S. intelligence in the "Terrorism?" thread. So I felt that this article deserved its own thread. IMO opinion, this is part of the reason for the 9/11 attacks.

Here goes:

By: John LeBoutillier

CIA Director George Tenet testified yesterday before the Senate Intelligence Committee.

Mr. Tenet, the only Clinton Cabinet officer remaining in his original post, has been able to artfully avoid having the CIA take the blame for sloppy and poor intelligence work leading up to 9-11.

In fact, because of his good personal relationship with both George Bushes, Tenet has twice since 9-11 been able to secure increases in the CIA budget.

In October, President Bush granted an emergency budget increase of $1 billion to the CIA. And now, in his fiscal 2003 budget, the President has proposed another $1.5 billion increase , that we know of. In fact, the overall intelligence budget is highly classified and 'hidden' in the budgets of other federal departments. Only a handful of Congressmen and Senators know the 'actual' amount.

It is also believed that even more money is secretly spent on intelligence than even these select members of the House and Senate are aware of. 'Black funds' exist, off-the-books accounts that CIA, NSA, DIA and the service Intel agencies have access to.

All of this is to point out that whatever happened on 9-11 is not the result of too little money being spent on intelligence gathering. No, the problem is how that money is spent.

Over the past thirty years our Intel agencies have fallen in love with satellites, eaves-dropping equipment and high tech means of 'listening' to our enemies and our friends, too.

'HUMINT' the gathering of intelligence through human beings on-the-ground infiltrating and getting up-close-and-personal, has taken a back seat to this fascination with high tech means.

Thus you get the odd occurrence: John 'Taliban' Walker can get into the Taliban and Al Qaeda, even meet Osama bin Laden, and yet our own agents could not get any where near Osama, Mullah Omar or the Taliban/Al Qaeda leadership before 9-11.

What has happened over the years to the CIA?

They have become a government inside a government.

The CIA, and this may shock many of you - spies on its own government!

Yes, for a fact, CIA places 'agents' into other federal departments and on the staffs of House and Senate committees to 'keep an eye on things'.

Every congressional committee that oversees intelligence activities has CIA staff on its staff! That way Langley can keep track of trouble brewing it its own backyard.

That's like having the fox 'guarding' the chicken coop.

This is the biggest, and so far unreported scandal in the US today. Bigger than Enron, bigger than anything else. The very fact that the CIA is an uncontrollable agency operating outside the Constitution, and getting away with it is something that one day is going to blow open and cause big trouble.

A small but meaningful example: in the mid-1980?s, then-Assistant Secretary of Defense Richard Armitage personally arranged for a uniformed military officer to be detailed to temporary White House duty. This officer had some innocuous job description. In reality his assignment was simple: to spy on the inner workings of the presidential office. Get the daily schedule of the senior staff, listen in on as many conversations as possible, find out what was 'brewing' before others knew ? and then report all of this daily back to Armitage.

A career CIA man, Armitage wanted to know what was happening at the White House so that the Pentagon and the CIA could be 'ahead of the curve'.

Armitage today is Deputy Secretary of State and may very well have a similar 'operative' placed in the White House and National Security Council.

This is plain out-and-out wrong.

Federal agencies should not be expending taxpayers' money spying on each other. But they do!

And that is but the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the enormous leeway the CIA has, because of the very nature of its 'secretive mission' to do what it wants.

It is also protected by federal judges strategically placed on the federal bench who are pro-CIA (some used to work for the CIA) who will always get the CIA off the hook in case something bad happens. A case in point involved 7 World Trade Center. Crushed in the 9-11 attack, this building housed several federal offices, including CIA's NY office. Furthermore, CIA was performing an illegal domestic operation on September 11 when the attack occurred. (By law, the CIA is prohibited from operating inside the US other than recruiting.)

When the building was smashed, CIA lost control of the evidence of their illegal activity. They rushed to a 'friendly' federal judge who granted a secret motion that has placed the CIA in charge of the excavation and search of 7 World Trade Center. All the workers, bulldozer operators and diggers on that particular site work for the CIA, not New York City or anyone else.

The so-called mainstream news media has missed this story.

My source: a federal judge in New York.

We are left to wonder what the 'illegal domestic operation' was and how we have come to allow a secret US agency to have such unbridled power.

This is a huge scandal waiting to explode.

Mail this article to a friend(s) in two clicks!

John LeBoutillier is a former U.S. Congressman and a nationally recognized political commentator. He has been a frequent guest on many national talk show programs and is author of the book Harvard Hates America. He is a regular columnist for Ether Zone.

Hope you guys were informed!

Tyler

[red oct 2]

well looks like somebody will now "disappear"

[el Gringo Loco 1]

Directly after 9-11 analysts already commented on the fact that the CIA has lost the fine touch in their trade and the cia operators are getting fat on donuts and decaf while they trust for a full 100% on their sattelites. This is in fact pretty old news, it originates from the days after the cold war where the CIA thought close-in observation of people and gathering military russian military secrets is not so relevant anymore as they thought we could do it now with a sattelite. The idea in itself was pretty defendable by then, remembering how the rockets on cuba where detected.

An other problem with the intel offices in the US is that instead of supplementing eachother and sharing important data they rather compete with eachother. These are all just pieces in the puzzle why the US intel offices didn't see 9-11 coming despite being there much clues around.

It's all written before also on this forum. Things just happen while they do and I'm sure some lessons will be implemented in the "lesson-learned" programs of those offices.

Thinking that these blunders are unique to the US is stupid. In the 70s the dutch intelligence didn't saw it coming that a group of mollucans hijacked a train. And almost kidnapped the queen, it was only known by the dutch intelligence when some mollucan activist got remorse and two days before the act told the police.

[red oct 2]

"Directly after 9-11 analysts already commented on the fact that the CIA has lost the fine touch in their trade and the cia operators are getting fat on donuts and decaf while they trust for a full 100% on their sattelites."

i dont know where you got that from but i wouldnt what to mess with CIA, there agents are just as good as they were during the coldwar. anything the CIA does is something nobody will never hear of. and with a country this size it would be almost impossible to 100% insure that everything is secure

[el Gringo Loco 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Red Oct @ Feb. 09 2002,16:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"Directly after 9-11 analysts already commented on the fact that the CIA has lost the fine touch in their trade and the cia operators are getting fat on donuts and decaf while they trust for a full 100% on their sattelites."

i dont know where you got that from but i wouldnt what to mess with CIA, there agents are just as good as they were during the coldwar. anything the CIA does is something nobody will never hear of. and with a country this size it would be almost impossible to 100% insure that everything is secure<span id='postcolor'>

You've should payed some attention to the news then.

CNN was one of them who came with the news.

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/19/inv.shelby.criticism/index.html

http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101010924/nintelligence.html

Come red oct this is old news. It was a common known fact that the CIA trusted too much on sattelites after the coldwar has ended. Read the papers more often . And don't blame me for anti-american thoughts because it were american analysts in the first place who doubted the potency of the CIA.

[Assault (CAN) 1]

L24A, the "trusting in technology" point was only one point that the guy was making. He is saying that the C.I.A. is operating spies within the U.S., which happens to be illegal.

How many agencies do you know of that put agents in to spy on their own government procedings?

The C.I.A. should report to the U.S. Government, the U.S. Government should report to it citizens, not the other way around.

Tyler

[Stag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">How many agencies do you know of that put agents in to spy on their own government procedings?

Tyler<span id='postcolor'>

Probably any nation with an Intelligence agency.

[Assault (CAN) 1]

Then maybe they should stop them too. Do you think that a spy agency spying on its own government is right?

I certainly hope not.

Tyler

[Stag 0]

I never said it was right; I believe it is RIFE. Worry about what your own countries' intelligence community is up to. At least the Americans Have an oversight committee.

[Assault (CAN) 1]

My country's Intelligence agency is too busy leaving top secret documents in the trunk of their car.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">At least the Americans Have an oversight committee.<span id='postcolor'>

And we don't? Apparently yours hasn't worked in the past decade.

Tyler

[red oct 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"Directly after 9-11 analysts already commented on the fact that the CIA has lost the fine touch in their trade and the cia operators are getting fat on donuts and decaf while they trust for a full 100% on their sattelites."

i dont know where you got that from but i wouldnt what to mess with CIA, there agents are just as good as they were during the coldwar. anything the CIA does is something nobody will never hear of. and with a country this size it would be almost impossible to 100% insure that everything is secure<span id='postcolor'>

You've should payed some attention to the news then.

CNN was one of them who came with the news.

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/19/inv.shelby.criticism/index.html

http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101010924/nintelligence.html

Come red oct this is old news. It was a common known fact that the CIA trusted too much on sattelites after the coldwar has ended. Read the papers more often . And don't blame me for anti-american thoughts because it were american analysts in the first place who doubted the potency of the CIA.<span id='postcolor'>

Did i say anything about acusing you of being anti-american?

no i didnt, so rather than put words in my mouth why not try understand that anybody who claims they know anything about the CIA may they be american or not is full of shit

[el Gringo Loco 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Red Oct @ Feb. 10 2002,09:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"Directly after 9-11 analysts already commented on the fact that the CIA has lost the fine touch in their trade and the cia operators are getting fat on donuts and decaf while they trust for a full 100% on their sattelites."

i dont know where you got that from but i wouldnt what to mess with CIA, there agents are just as good as they were during the coldwar. anything the CIA does is something nobody will never hear of. and with a country this size it would be almost impossible to 100% insure that everything is secure<span id='postcolor'>

You've should payed some attention to the news then.

CNN was one of them who came with the news.

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/19/inv.shelby.criticism/index.html

http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101010924/nintelligence.html

Come red oct this is old news. It was a common known fact that the CIA trusted too much on sattelites after the coldwar has ended. Read the papers more often . And don't blame me for anti-american thoughts because it were american analysts in the first place who doubted the potency of the CIA.<span id='postcolor'>

Did i say anything about acusing you of being anti-american?

no i didnt, so rather than put words in my mouth why not try understand that anybody who claims they know anything about the CIA may they be american or not is full of shit<span id='postcolor'>

I'm sorry you're 100% right. It's just that many people accuse me on this forum of anti-american thoughts while I'm just being critical. Please accept my well-meant apologies.

[red oct 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (L24A @ Feb. 10 2002,10:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"Directly after 9-11 analysts already commented on the fact that the CIA has lost the fine touch in their trade and the cia operators are getting fat on donuts and decaf while they trust for a full 100% on their sattelites."

i dont know where you got that from but i wouldnt what to mess with CIA, there agents are just as good as they were during the coldwar. anything the CIA does is something nobody will never hear of. and with a country this size it would be almost impossible to 100% insure that everything is secure<span id='postcolor'>

You've should payed some attention to the news then.

CNN was one of them who came with the news.

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/19/inv.shelby.criticism/index.html

http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101010924/nintelligence.html

Come red oct this is old news. It was a common known fact that the CIA trusted too much on sattelites after the coldwar has ended. Read the papers more often . And don't blame me for anti-american thoughts because it were american analysts in the first place who doubted the potency of the CIA.<span id='postcolor'>

Did i say anything about acusing you of being anti-american?

no i didnt, so rather than put words in my mouth why not try understand that anybody who claims they know anything about the CIA may they be american or not is full of shit<span id='postcolor'>

I'm sorry you're 100% right. It's just that many people accuse me on this forum of anti-american thoughts while I'm just being critical. Please accept my well-meant apologies. <span id='postcolor'>

no prob

[Assault (CAN) 1]

That aricle came from the most pro-American website there is, and was written by a former U.S. Congressman. I think he knows what he is talking about. Besides its not like he gave away any top-seret information or anything. I suggest some people here read it over again, carefully.

The thing I hate on here is that if anyone trys to criticize the U.S. gov't, your considered "anti-American" that is a load of shit. So long as your not bitching or moaning and have legit points, thats fine.

Try telling the guy who wrote the article that he is "anti-American"

Tyler

some people.....

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

Red Oct -"why not try understand that anybody who claims they know anything about the CIA may they be american or not is full of shit"

sorry but i believe you're wrong, the CIA is not one flawless monolithic object but is made up of many (imperfect) individuals with varying degrees of commitment to the agency,

and hard as you seem to find it to believe a good few have 'talked' in the past ,though usually only confirming already widespread opinions about past CIA activity ,not really revealing 'secrets'.

I remember one newspaper interview with an old CIA man who admitted that to a great extent the Tehran debacle was due to poor (and could have been avoided by better) HUMINT (hardly a revelation) and furthermore went on to say that in many cases he believed HUMINT was WORSE now than it was then.

+there were post Spt.11 confirmations by certain CIA members that they had let Humint slip too far down the priorities list in places like Afghanistan

if the methodology/training is flawed so will the the organisation as a whole be- the CIA are not as flawless as you seem to suggest, dont let Hollywood dictate your perception of Intelligence forces .