Enemy AI too good, team AI too bad

[Triggertimeman 0]

I've found that the enemy AI seem to be all great marksmen and can hit you and you teamates with no problem.

Yet when I try and get my teamates to move to an area/objective, or even simply follow me, they get lost really easily and say "where are you?", and they drop like flies too.

The enemy AI in this game is good for trying to out manuver you but they are too good at hitting their targets. And friendly AI is just stupid, they can't keep up at all.

Why is it so stupid?

[fasad 1]

>>I've found that the enemy AI seem to be all great marksmen and can hit you and you teamates with no problem.

Unless you have changes the difficulty settings, your AI are actually better shots/spotters than the enemy, although individual missions can upset that.

>>Yet when I try and get my teamates to move to an area/objective, or even simply follow me, they get lost really easily and say "where are you?", and they drop like flies too.

AI path finding is not as capable as a human. When an all AI group moves, they stick together along a path that they can follow. When you move your AI are constantly trying to get to a point in formation based around you, which can often be impossible (eg inside a building). Try giving them movement orders, eg: 2,3,4 go to that house, 5,6,7 go to that bush, etc. This breaks your group into sub-groups of AI, which work together reasonably well. Giving each AI unit 1 movement order makes their path finding even more efficient.

>>The enemy AI in this game is good for trying to out maneuver you but they are too good at hitting their targets. And friendly AI is just stupid, they can't keep up at all.

Its more that the AI work together well, while your AI are always trying to keep up with you rather than fight.

>>Why is it so stupid?

Because it is real time pathfinding on a 400km^2 island. Most other games use pre-set waypoints/nodes rather than real-time path finding. Work to you AI's strengths and they become more useful.

[Dark_vityaz 0]

Agree...but that question for developers.

[Sobric 0]

change your config file, dead easy to do.

go to your ArmA directory in your My Documents section (something like c:\my documents\your name\ArmA)

look for your profile config (yourname.ArmAprofile)

scroll down or ctrl-f and look for SkillFriendly, SkillEnemy, PrecisionFriendly & PrecisionEnemy. (2 sets, under regular and veteran)

Then just fiddle with these figures a bit. Up Skill nice and high (generally better tactics by AI, although too high and you'll think they have x-ray vision) and drop the precision. You should find prolonged fire fights (due to enemies not being as deadly accurate) while not having complete morons.

Hope this helps.

[Triggertimeman 0]

Thanks for the responses, I was a little frustrated at the time I posted this so sorry if I seem a little p*ssy

I'm going to try all those suggestions, and I want to try Sobric's thing too.  Right now everyone's skill is set at 750000, I am going to mess with it a little bit, but what is a good setting?  I like the thought of prolonged firefights because the enemy are sharpshooters   (I mean tank crew were getting out a picking my guys and I off 500m away! )

[celery 8]

I have seen that when you're in command, your team is very hesitant to shoot at anything even if you tell them to engage at will. Right after you die, they start shooting like crazy and eliminate all enemies in sight, quicker than the new commander can issue targets.

[froggyluv 2136]

Thanks for the responses, I was a little frustrated at the time I posted this so sorry if I seem a little p*ssy

I'm going to try all those suggestions, and I want to try Sobric's thing too.  Right now everyone's skill is set at 750000, I am going to mess with it a little bit, but what is a good setting?  I like the thought of prolonged firefights because the enemy are sharpshooters   (I mean tank crew were getting out a picking my guys and I off 500m away! )

Try using the mod "Troopmon" to check out enemy AI in real-time. I've been switching between ARMA and FFSX mod to gauge AI reacitveness and accuracy. Setting myself as sniper with 1 teamate to yell out enemy distance, I take a couple of potshots at 1 enemy infantry group and then duck. In ARMA  enemy immediately drops and scans and took a while before sending out scouts usually their sniper and 1 rifleman. In FFSX, half the group ran for cover behind houses and then checked the homes tactically before coming back out. The one thing I liked about FFSX's response was their machinegunner started laying down suppresive fire in our general area and they even lobbed a couple of RPG's in our direction while others flanked us.ARMA's guys sent scouts to flank us but surprisingly went back to their group after spotting us and approached us very carefully as a tactical unit. When they approached 50ft. their MG opened up but actually used most of his clip before killing me and my squadie sniper had his pistol out a few feet away taking 2 of them out. They finally flanked him and funny enough, after killing him emptied a clip in his dead back- frustration I guess. One flaw in FFSX is occasionally enemy AI won't react when in close range even though your spotted, some kinda bug I guess.

Sidenote: My Arma precision was altered to .45 maybe that explains the MG and in both scenarios I was @200m on a slight incline.

[Banzai! 0]

What is this FFSX you speak of?

[froggyluv 2136]

What is this FFSX you speak of?

FFUR/SLX Mod for OFP.

Sorry I should have been more clear

[Gaswell 1]

When in formation the AI troops seem to prioritize actually staying in that formation (i.e. moving with you) over stopping and engaging the enemy.

I always get better results ordering an advance/flank while in formation, or splitting my squad into teams and giving each team move orders. And keep them moving, as once they stop they're easy targets due to the AI's excellent markmanship.

As squad leader I rarely open fire myself as I don't feel I need the enemy's attention. I'm the spotter, my AI teams are the shooters.

My .2€ anyways.

[ColonelSandersLite 0]

Something I've noticed is that there seems to be some kind of priority towards calling out units VS opening fire. Especially bad in a player squad it seems. Or maybe I just notice it more in the player's squad.

It's like noone will open fire on the target until the call has been completed.

[esti_the_big 0]

Quote[/b] ]Why is it so stupid?

cus it simply wasn't programmed as well as it should've been... other games also feature dynamic AI with realtime pathfinding, and they're doin a much better job

Wait for patches and community Addons, I'm sure part of the AI problems are gonna disappear then. too bad it has to happen that way but at least somethings gonna happen...

[quiet_man 8]

Quote[/b] ]Why is it so stupid?

cus it simply wasn't programmed as well as it should've been... other games also feature dynamic AI with realtime pathfinding, and they're doin a much better job

Wait for patches and community Addons, I'm sure part of the AI problems are gonna disappear then. too bad it has to happen that way but at least somethings gonna happen...

realy, I know few games with such complex environment they all have their problems on pathfinding

not to say that Arma AI tries to do many other things same time.

Maybe try to think like a commander?

Monitor how your units behave in combat and give them orders in a way to optimize their performance.

I agee to what was said before, keeping AI units in formation with human player is no good idea at all, even less in combat.

When you move around the AI will try to follow you on and only shoot while standing, heavily reducing their accuray

1. Make small groups and order them to strategic locations

My experience is that AI units like to fight uphill

also look for free field of fire for them

2. Order them to combat mode and to stay low, for long distance fights order them to go prone

Lots of problems with the grunts, but good commanders try to work around it

QuietMan

[mr reality 0]

I've found that the enemy AI seem to be all great marksmen and can hit you and you teamates with no problem.  

Yet when I try and get my teamates to move to an area/objective, or even simply follow me, they get lost really easily and say "where are you?", and they drop like flies too.

The enemy AI in this game is good for trying to out manuver you but they are too good at hitting their targets.  And friendly AI is just stupid, they can't keep up at all.

Why is it so stupid?

I couldn't of put it better myself. Well actually i probably have in numerous threads regarding the AI.

Whenever there's a thread saying how bad the AI is, the AI of the players squad is rarely mentioned. I have no complaints about the OPFOR AI. It does its job well enough. The only thing i do hate however is the squad AI.

I've had situations ingame where squad members stood up and faced the opposite direction while we were under fire, squad members falling behind when i went from tree cover to cross an open field and squad members standing up in the safe position (weapon down) when i had ordered them to danger.

I will often lose half of my squad in combat to crappy AI behavior. I can't be responsible for the micro-managing of individuals when in a fire-fight as this is the time i often die, while i'm trying to get some stupid shmoe to lie the f**k down or to tell someone to target an opfor who's standing 10 feet away.....

Before some fanboy remarks about the AI being the same for all i will just say that have you seen the reactions of the OPFOR AI when you engage them....

[baddo 0]

Friendly AI units which are in your team, you as a leader, are tied to work as you order them. That's why they are stupid, you didn't make them do any better. A completely-AI team is not tied to what you do and as such they can perform better than the AI units in your group.

So practice giving your AI team mates some orders, you can get good results by understanding how you need to command them effectively. I know it can be a hassle in an intense mission to use the command menus to give orders for AI soldiers but if you don't do it then your AI soldiers will look stupid no doubt about it.

[quiet_man 8]

try to play as grunt with an AI commander and see what incredible amount of command he spits out per minute.

The default order for AI is to stay in formation until you order them different. I know they are braindead (they all share one/two cpu) but you would wonder what stupid stuff real people are able to do while under fire.

Either you start using micromanagement like AI commanders or delegate the task by splitting up the team.

I do the second. When you select some units and order them to move somewhere, the highest rank in the group will take command and will handle the micromanagement. They will perform just like enemy AI and all you need to do is to make sure their at the right place at the right time(difficult enough for me)

if I have lot's of units, I take one or two as personal guards

QuietMan

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Look, before you guys start complaining about the AI let's get some things straight. First, all non-player controlled units use the same AI, one group isn't by default more advanced than the others. That's just stupid, other games might get away with it, but ArmA's not like that. Ok, yes you can modify certain skill aspects of friendly and enemy AI, but that's not the issue here.

It's simply a matter of AI interaction with AI and human players. The enemy has AI leaders, so they cooperate better, but your squad members are lead by a human player. AI leaders are aggressive, they're very active in telling their squad what to do. AI leaders send their squad members after enemies, they tell them who to shoot, where to move, and they keep all the whole squad busy. Human leaders typically take it upon themselves to do everything and just leave their AI to act on their own. It still works, thanks to the game's excellent AI, but it's not as effective. Think about real life; good leaders often make a big difference in how a group of individuals performs. Much of how the AI perform is based on how well and how fast their group leader can issue orders to each individual. And unfortunately, no matter how hard you try, you're not going to be able to beat AI at micromanagement.

So, ultimately, the problem is not with the AI, you (the player) are the only one to blame. Your AI are expecting you to tell them what to do, or to do what they tell you if they're in command. Unfortunately, though it's your fault, there's nothing you can really do about it. The AI just can't communicate with you as effectively and vice versa. I absolutely hate when people always think it's bad AI or an AI bug or something worth taking out on the developers. There's really no justice in blaming BIS for this when it's beyond their control.

[mr reality 0]

@KyleSarnik

If you were refering to one of my posts i would ask you to read it again. I wrote about the AI doing stupid things when i had given them an order which should of prevented them from doing stupid things (standing up in safe mode while they were in combat mode and within 15 metres from opfor). I know the player will never be able to command a squad like the AI commander does but falling back 100 metres when crossing an open field is imho shit f**k dumb AI behaviour. And yes i had set them on aware before getting out of cover.

Ultimatley it boils down to the fact this game need a serious overhaul of the command interface.This is one of the main referances in many of the reviews i've read.

[Col. Faulkner 0]

Much of how the AI perform is based on how well and how fast their group leader can issue orders to each individual. And unfortunately, no matter how hard you try, you're not going to be able to beat AI at micromanagement.

Then this means that the game mechanism and the UI for

directing soldiers is inadequate if one cannot perform as

well as an AI squad leader "no matter how hard you try".

I have to say, though, that the Arma player squad AI is a

slight improvement over the OFP one. However, it is apparent

that such tedious micromanagement is the only way to

command a squad in the game (in its current state) with any

sort of success. You might want to experiment with voice

control to remove some of the button mashing that this

inevitably demands.

[funnyguy1 0]

Yeah, the voice controlling thingy solves some problems with the buttons. Although it has some drawbacks I recommend it to anyone that is annoyed with the system we have already...

I suggest using both though, It's the best and fastest option imho...

Isn't it stupid that the AI commanded units execute milions of small orders in one minute anyway? Instead of knowing what to do by reacting on the situations with a little of the self-preserving instinct?

[esti_the_big 0]

Quote[/b] ]unfortunately, no matter how hard you try, you're not going to be able to beat AI at micromanagement.

So, ultimately, the problem is not with the AI, you (the player) are the only one to blame.

A good AI means it acts Humanlike. Thats very hard to achieve, but it's simulatable to a certain point. But its certainly not the players fault. In the end the only one who can effectively change it is the developer. And BIS developed a AI which simply doesn't live up to the standards one could expect 5 years after ofp. We have the right to complain, we're paying customers.

[MATRA 0]

Quote[/b] ]Ultimatley it boils down to the fact this game need a serious overhaul of the command interface.This is one of the main referances in many of the reviews i've read.

I couldnt agree more.

[4 IN 1 0]

Quote[/b] ]unfortunately, no matter how hard you try, you're not going to be able to beat AI at micromanagement.

So, ultimately, the problem is not with the AI, you (the player) are the only one to blame.

A good AI means it acts Humanlike. Thats very hard to achieve, but it's simulatable to a certain point. But its certainly not the players fault. In the end the only one who can effectively change it is the developer. And BIS developed a AI which simply doesn't live up to the standards one could expect 5 years after ofp. We have the right to complain, we're paying customers.

how many times i need to say that the AI we have now is not that bad at all, for christ sakes what we need is a better interface so that we have better control on them and crack down fixed formation problem which doesnt work in street fight

[Triggertimeman 0]

A couple questions:

How do I do the voice commands? I'm not familiar with the function(even though it's probably obvious)

Also, when ordering my guys to go off on their own so they can do better.. what's the easiest method? Using the map or just trying to point to it?

Thanks for the replies!

[andersson 285]

Voice Activated Command