1.05 Causes performance Hits.

[MamiyaOtaru 1]

The graphics slowdown is entirely due to the new grass layer, period Here anyway; read on.

So I decided to do some framerate tests.  Before patching, I saved a couple missions (one in S Sahrani, one in N Sahrani) with just me on the map.  Started each mission, and without moving recorded the framerate looking to the left, right, straight ahead, through irons, and through irons+zoomed.  

Then I patched to 1.05, loaded the same missions (so I am in the exact same spots) and measured. (same settings of course)

numbers are FPS looking left, right, ahead, irons, irons+zoom

With Grass

South Sahrani (looking over Somato from hill to south)

1.04

52, 58, 56, 44, 48

1.05

48, 53, 52, 40, 44

North Sahrani (in forest east of Eponia)

1.04

34, 32, 33, 28, 26

1.05

32, 30, 30, 26, 26

This is an average of 7.3 percent fewer frames per second.

I am assuming the loss is due to the extra grass layer drawn now.  To test this, here are figures from 1.04 and 1.05 without grass.  If there is little difference between 1.04 and 1.05, we can assume the drop I experiences with the first set of figures is due to the grass layer.

Without Grass

South Sahrani (looking over Somato from hill to south)

1.04

60, 72, 69, 50, 49

1.05

60, 72, 69, 50, 49

North Sahrani (in forest east of Eponia)

1.04

43, 37, 37, 32, 31

1.05

43, 37, 37, 31, 31

This is a .2% performance loss, statistically insignificant.  1.05 performs exactly the same as 1.04 with grass turned off.  The drop we see in 1.05 then is due to the new grass layer.  Since that lets AI and other players hide somewhat in grass at long distances, it may be worth it.  

Tests run on

Core 2 duo 6600

2 GB ddr2-800

Intel G965+ ICH8 chipset

geforce 7900gt

Windows XP

Low postprocessing, low antialiasing, 1024*768 Viewdistance ~1600

Normal textures, shading, shadows.

Normal terrain detail (except on no grass test, where it was very low).

[richard_dean_anderson 0]

Yep, 1.04 was not too bad, 1.05 seems to be crap. It doesn't look like any of my settings were automatically changed by the upgrade. The graphics look different, sorta "brighter". and its a lot choppier.

Using Z-Tweaked 91.47 Nvidia drivers for my xfx 256mb gf 6600GT.

1.9 ghz Athlon

Gig of cheap Kingston RAM

1024x760 or whatever, with the first 3 graphics options set to Normal, and everything else low.

[Sdstorage 0]

Haven't seen this mentioned yet, but it seems that the v1.05 patch re-introduces the sound loss issue when too many sounds are playing at once.

I fixed it by once again reinstalling the latest openAL version, which I got here:

http://developer.creative.com/article....&aid=46

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Yep, 1.04 was not too bad, 1.05 seems to be crap. It doesn't look like any of my settings were automatically changed by the upgrade. The graphics look different, sorta "brighter". and its a lot choppier.

Using Z-Tweaked 91.47 Nvidia drivers for my xfx 256mb gf 6600GT.

1.9 ghz Athlon

Gig of cheap Kingston RAM

I´m sorry to say this but your system doesn´t meet the minimum requirenments for Arma and you complain ? How funny is that ?

[richard_dean_anderson 0]

I´m sorry to say this but your system doesn´t meet the minimum requirenments for Arma and you complain ? How funny is that ?

Oh, I'm well aware of that. But, it ran pretty well in 1.04, now that is funny.

Doesn't seem to be only people that have systems that are under the minimum requirements that are having these problems either.

[CG Man 0]

I had sound cutting out in1.04 in 1.05 it cuts out almost straight away and with more sounds missing I bet the performance hit is there as they fixed some of the graphics and more Ai data has been added. They can still improve it though as it looks like the programing is very far from finnished.

[plasman 0]

I tried to download the 1.05 patch on last Friday, but I couldn’t cause it seemed the entire world was doing the same thing.

So I decided to download it today to install it later. Lucky me ! Looks like I’ll keep playing version 1.04 and wait for the 1.06 release.

[CG Man 0]

Tanks behave better move faster than 5mph the grass is shorter the harrier has a nicer sound the menues look greener.

Install the latest patch and the sound will cut out more often it will lag even more and textures will vanish now and again.

[maruk 80]

I'm reading a lot of stuff here that could be construed as subjective. Any chance of you guys using ArmaMark and get some figures down on paper. That will prove it one way or the other.

True. I tried to read this topic and find anything to track down to a real problem some may have. I can't see much facts to base any analysis on it.

Important things are:

- your system info

- your ArmA video options

- test method you use and result you obtain

- your exact ArmA version (to find out what type of DRM is used and elimate tha as potential source of problem)

The only major change from 1.04 - 1.05 was in memory handling. You may try arma.exe with commandline option -maxmem=512 or -maxmem=1024 or another value to see if this has got any influence.

You can also easily keep two versions of ArmA on your PC: just install 1.04 and before patching to 1.05 duplicate the entire game folder somewhere (and from there you can also run ArmA 1.04).

[Possessed 0]

I'm reading a lot of stuff here that could be construed as subjective. Any chance of you guys using ArmaMark and get some figures down on paper. That will prove it one way or the other.

True. I tried to read this topic and find anything to track down to a real problem some may have. I can't see much facts to base any analysis on it.

Important things are:

- your system info

- your ArmA video options

- test method you use and result you obtain

- your exact ArmA version (to find out what type of DRM is used and elimate tha as potential source of problem)

The only major change from 1.04 - 1.05 was in memory handling. You may try arma.exe with commandline option -maxmem=512 or -maxmem=1024 or another value to see if this has got any influence.

You can also easily keep two versions of ArmA on your PC: just install 1.04 and before patching to 1.05 duplicate the entire game folder somewhere (and from there you can also run ArmA 1.04).

Ok. My system specs are presented in my signature.

Test results:

Res:1680x1050 | View distance 2100 | Terrain=VH | Objects=VH | Textures=VH | Shading=VH | Postprocessing=H | AF=VH | AA=N -> with 1.04 FPS in forests 20-30, cities 25-45

Res:1680x1050 | View distance 2100 | Terrain=VH | Objects=VH | Textures=VH | Shading=VH | Postprocessing=H | AF=VH | AA=N -> with 1.05 FPS in forests 15-25, cities 10-20

Res:1680x1050 | View distance 2100 | Terrain=VH | Objects=VH | Textures= H | Shading=VH | Postprocessing=L | AF=VH | AA=N -> with 1.05 FPS in forests 20-30, cities 20-40

The main 1.05 performance hit comes in the cities and postprocessing level has the main effect to performance. Before 1.05 I was able to get the same fps levels with postprocessing high as after 1.05 with postprocessing low.

And the video card texture memory seems to fill up and choke in both versions (1.04&1.05). When I walk in high-density forests, fps is decent 20-30 but when I drive after that to a city, fps drops a lot. When I alt-tab and come back to the game, fps has doubled or more. Seems like texture memory filling/cleaning problem to me. With high texture settings the problem is not so bad as with very high textures. But this problem really bugs in all the missions where you have to change the playing area. Alt-tabbing gradually, especially in network games is not very practical.

Same happens if I start in a city. FPS is on a decent level, but when I move outside of the town and go near a group of trees, FPS can drop down even below 10. alt-tab -> game does some loading -> everything is ok again.

I have already made couple of bug reports of these symptoms. I am quite certain that these two are the most common performance hit problems in graphics.

[Dienamite 0]

I also still have the bush/tree problem with my 8800GTX and Core 2 Duo E6600, with post-processing on both high and low. I usually get around 6-7fps up against a bush or in a wood. 20fps in a town or city.

Tabbing out and then back in fixes the problem for a few minutes. I usually get around 30fps. Changing the AA settings does the same job too.

[fubarno1 0]

True. I tried to read this topic and find anything to track down to a real problem some may have. I can't see much facts to base any analysis on it.

Important things are:

- your system info

- your ArmA video options

- test method you use and result you obtain

- your exact ArmA version (to find out what type of DRM is used and elimate tha as potential source of problem)

The only major change from 1.04 - 1.05 was in memory handling. You may try arma.exe with commandline option -maxmem=512 or -maxmem=1024 or another value to see if this has got any influence.

You can also easily keep two versions of ArmA on your PC: just install 1.04 and before patching to 1.05 duplicate the entire game folder somewhere (and from there you can also run ArmA 1.04).

It might help to gain specific user performance issues and their spec's if you made a seperate sticky post yourself and detailing exactly what details BIS would require to help with your analysis process.

the problem with this forum is that details that you may find useful are spread through so many different threads but if you can get users posting under the same thread then thats got to be a start in the right direction for ironing out common engine/driver/hardware problems.

[KrycekITA 0]

With ArmaMark i've loose about 890 points, with FRAPS from 10 to 25 FPS depends on the situation (less loss in desert more in city and forest me alone, with more than 4-5 soldiers 1.5 become unplayable).I've experienced some sound bug that i don't have in 1.4, some freeze when looking around or reloading weapon and texture missing.I've done the test with video options I use to play.I've noticed that lowering video options doesn't give me any relevant boost in performance.

AVGFree (antivir) disabled and SystemBoosterXP enabled

System formatted 4 days ago so very clean reg.

Version 1.04.5121----patched 1.05.5136

View Distance 1200

Ground : Normal

Object : Normal

Texture : Normal

Shading: Normal

Post-Processing: High

Anisotropic: Normal

Shadow: Low

Antialisng: Normal

Blood: High

1024x768x32 75Hz

Language: Italian

Eax:Disabled

Specs:

P4 3.2 GHZ

2 x 512 Corsair DDR2 533

7600GT (93.71)

Sorry for my english it isn't my first language.

[vilas 477]

hey BIS team member Maruk - in Poland we found that problems mostly have people with dualcore CPU

people with single core CPU after 1.05 have better performance

people who have dual core CPU (AMD X2 like me) have a lot of lags

i had 1.02 PL version, now i installed patch 1.05, also defragmentation was done

[Teox 0]

Ok guys.. let's talkin' about the new patch..

Like so much of you I have bought the game from the first relase in german version.

My config:

CPU -AMD 4600+ x2

VGA -EN8800gtx

HD -WD160Gb sata2

RAM - 2*1gb kingstone ddr 400 dual

Before installing the 1.05, my fps was 50/60 in hight res..

after installing a new patch I less about 20% of theese.

I read to seems due a grass rendering, but Its incredible bheaviour.

Trought a jungle my fps go better (35/40) instead trought a city my fps decrease...

So I'm sure that is a memory otpimization problem.

I'm very happy to be one of the great community of ArmA, but is not possibile play in MP with 20/25fps and be killed due of this.

I hope BIS can reconsiderate the importance of fluidity and can make something for fix this matter.

Now I will try to use command line in arma.exe to view if this can resolve a lot.

Please BIS help us... is not possibile playng with 601 euro's of graphic card at 25 fps.

[maruk 80]

drops a lot. When I alt-tab and come back to the game, fps has doubled or more. Seems like texture memory filling/cleaning problem to me. With high texture settings the problem is not so bad as with very high textures. But this problem really bugs in all the missions where you have to change the playing area. Alt-tabbing gradually, especially in network games is not very practical.

This indicates that your textures are probably no more fitting on the main memory of the graphics care and are stored in the main system memory which is way slower. After reset of graphical device (which you can achieve by alt tab or changing the in game settings) the textures get again to the main memory but after while this is again no longer sufficient.

Amount of memory allocated on GPU is derrived from Texture detail so lowering texture detail could help you consisently.

[memnoch 0]

@ Mar. 05 2007,03:03)]Because you know... I just waited for 2 days to get permission to post specifically on this forum to just make crap up.  Most might think that that were a waste of time.  Just because you're skeptical doesn't mean you have to assume we're all smoking crack and be cynical about it.  Getting exact specifics would be nice; chances of it ever happening... slim-to-none.  What has been posted is evidence enough that something is wrong.

That wasn't my point. My point is that some people find that 30fps is acceptable and others want nothing less that 60fps. It's not about trusting what people say at all. Installing FRAPS will at least give hard figures rather than "it runs a bit slower now".

[memnoch 0]

My pc dont have sli now. but I still changed the 1.05's arma.exe to fear.exe, and it really helps fps alot.  

It's specifically things like this that I was referring too. Without hard data to go by its hard to judge. I tried this on my Crossfire rig and found no difference at all, even with FRAPS, rather than guesswork. I haven't tried the processor afinity thing but will do tonight.

[memnoch 0]

Yep, 1.04 was not too bad, 1.05 seems to be crap. It doesn't look like any of my settings were automatically changed by the upgrade. The graphics look different, sorta "brighter". and its a lot choppier.

The change in the way the graphics looked was the first thing I noticed. It was almost like someone had cleaned the dust from my monitor!

[twoodster 0]

Framerates are notably down on 1.5 for me too - using an 8800GTS, 4gig DDR2 and Core 2 Duo 6600. I was barely hitting 25-30fps before, now I'm probably barely hitting 20

[Panko-31stMEU- 0]

Well memnoch, I was using fraps but unless I make a video of the FPS moving up and down then you'll just have to take my word for it when I say it isn't anywhere near what it was prior to 1.05. By the way, why don't you just edit one post and not post 3 in a row???

And for whomever said there was new grass textures??? Umm pretty sure they just made new calculations for AI to not be able to see you through it or the foliage around you. Don't remember reading about any new grass textures in the patch.

Quote[/b] ]* grass is now simulated for AI and multiplayer (including largerd view distances)

Quote[/b] ]*5128 - Fixed: AI now considers grass layer in the visibility calculations.

Quote[/b] ]===Desert.pbo===

Grass layer information added.

Quote[/b] ]===Sara.pbo===

Grass layer information added.

^Above are the only references to grass in the patch update list. I suppose they did add grass in those last two quotes but that doesn't make sense with still getting crappy framerates in cityscapes. People with problems, try this: Stand in the road in a city with your 9 or 3 oclock to a building. Set yourself so that when you zoom you can't see the building next to you anymore and zoom back out with your weapon (not the iron sights, just hip shot zoom). After doing that in a few different ways in different places watch how it takes forever for the wall textures to load. That is not normal. Texture load times have gone crazy. Apparently 1Gb or 768Mb of GDDR3 video memory are not enough or 2 or 3 GB of RAM...

[JimLad 0]

Yes I have that texture problem with:

2.4GHz Core 2 Duo

2GB DDR2

640MB Geforce 8800 GTS

Is there a fault with the 8800s that cause this texture load issue or are people with other cards also experiencing it?

[Dienamite 0]

Seems like it's both 8800 and Core 2 Duo owners experiencing the texture and bush problems. We should all chip-in and buy the BIS team an 8800 and a Core 2 Duo to use. Looks like they don't have these pieces of kit to experiment with.

[memnoch 0]

@ Mar. 05 2007,17:10)]By the way, why don't you just edit one post and not post 3 in a row???

My apologies. I was posting as I was reading through the thread. Hope you didn't get them in too tight a bunch!  

EDIT: Oh, and try out ArmaMark. It really is quite useful.

[MamiyaOtaru 1]

@ Mar. 05 2007,17:10)]And for whomever said there was new grass textures???  Umm pretty sure they just made new calculations for AI to not be able to see you through it or the foliage around you.

You might be talking to me. I didn't mention new grass textures so much as a new grass layer. Beyond where the actual grass is drawn, a grass layer is drawn above the ground, hiding peoples' feet, or their whole bodies if prone. It is actually something extra drawn to the screen that wasn't there before.

You can see where it begins approximately where the actual grass ends. It wasn't there before. If one takes it out of the picture (by setting terrain detail very low) 1.05 gets exactly the same performance as 1.04 (on terrain detail very low). The performance loss only shows up with grass enabled, since 1.05 has something extra that 1.04 didn't. At least on my machine then, the FPS loss is due to that extra layer, and I find it an acceptable tradeoff.