Public Ban List

[sirex 0]

i think its a great idea. - i've been keeping an eye on how many true idiots ive found on servers, and in the last few days theres only 1 that i'd add to the list. I kept his arma id to one side.

[mattxr 9]

Yeah ive seen the number of noobs drop drastically. which is a good thing.

[Rambo-16AAB 0]

Good, but ive yet to see ether of your names on the website

Ive got a warning on our serve status page & our servers MOTD about the Global banlist now, so if the idiots still decide to be idiots and end up banned, then they only have themselfs to blame.

I have sent news items about the banlist to a couple of community sites so far. Any help in publicising the site & what its about would be greatly appreciated.

[walker 0]

Hi all

To Rambo-16AAB

Punkbuster maintains lists of cheat programs and hardware as well as pirated IDs I can find nowhere on their site where they maintain a master ban list of player IDs. I wonder why?

If I am incorrect in this please point me to evenbalance's list of cheaters, here is their web site:

http://www.evenbalance.com/

In reply to Kode

I agree a server owner may ban anyone they wish but I would be careful not to say the reason for the ban unless I had irrefutable evidence and even then better to just maintain the ban and a stony silence with only the reply of "The management reserve the right to ban who it wishes." of course this then comes back to ethical questions of what to do for people banned by accedent or mistake.

How can you argue against an undeserved ban if the reason for your trangression is not listed?

What is to stop an unscrupulous person adding all the people in this forum they do not like to such a public ban list? Sudenly you have a massive buraucracy to maintian who should and should not be on the ban list requiring hours of work and always over your head the posibility that you as the person maintaining the list are the one legaly liable for its accuracy even if you are not sued it is a boring job and you are not playing ArmA every minute of it.

Simple in mission scripts such as Kronzky's that wound matches, or a 10 minutes in the virtual cells necesitating a reboot to get back in without serving your virtual sentence (far more effective than a kick and you let the person have a chance to redeem them selves), or negation that removes the TK effect and applies punnishment.

All these ruin the warped fun of TKing without throwing the baby out in the bath water. They get one TK and they are locked for ten minutes seems fine to me. Personaly I think kicking and banning is waste of time.

Remember the purpose here is to prevent TKers. It is not rocket science.

Kind Regards walker

[Rambo-16AAB 0]

http://www.punksbusted.com/cgi-bin/membership/publicbans.cgi

plenty of public ban lists.

[sirex 0]

i think as far as law goes, you can ban whoever you want from your server, without reason. - as it should be.

otherwise, banning wildcards would be illegal.

[Rambo-16AAB 0]

Correct.

If i chioose to exclude you because I just didnt like you, from playing on my server that I rented, paid for and have controll off, then I can. What I cant do on a server is place a derogitory messages about a person like " Jimbob is sleeping with his mother and his uncle is also his brother "

A ban list is simply that. A list of unrelated ID numbers that dont show personal details. This simple fact is, it there, its available, you use it or you dont. Its your own CHOICE.

** NOTE The Character " Jimbob" is Fictional and any resembelence to any person living or dead is puerly coincidental**

[zinc 0]

why not just have a 'friendly fire off' option available on the server or 'three strikes and your out for ## hours' for real accidents. That would at least make the idiots go forth and multiply somewhere else.

Saves all the hassle with keeping lists updated.

[Rambo-16AAB 0]

If BIS was to impliment a Max FF/punt option in the server code, it would save a great deal of grief.

Untill then, we have to make do.

As for turning FF off completely, well, its fine for kiddy servers.

[kronzky 5]

I can't even remotely imagine why a banlist could be considered "illegal".

If it were ran and enforced by BI, then perhaps.

But for private servers and games - NO WAY...

It is YOUR SERVER. It is YOUR GAME. And you can do with that whatever you want.

Nobody can tell you who to let into your game.

You can block whoever you feel like blocking, justified or not. You don't even need a reason for it.

After all, you're not a public institution. It's your personal, private game, and any decision about who to let in is categorically yours...

OTOH, as far as the ban list is concerned, you might have to be careful as to how you label it.

If the list were headed by something like "These are the biggest jerks in the world. They suck so much that anybody who is running a game should ban them immediate.", you might have a problem. Someone might sue you for libel (VERY HIGHLY UNLIKELY, but about as possible as a lottery win).

But that's not what the list says. The list says "These are the people that have been banned on one or more servers. If you feel like banning them too, feel free to do so."

A simple statement of fact. Nobody is being insulted, nobody is stating anything about any person in particular, so the whole libel issue is not really relevant.

And, just for theoretical purposes, let's assume that some aspect of the list might be illegal somewhere.

Who is actually going to sue here? The banned players? They will most likely have used a pirated copy anyway (after all, who would risk getting his purchased ID banned?). And in which court? Most games are international anyway, so which court/law would be applicable here? Do you really think some loser team-killer would hire a lawyer to start an international lawsuit, just because people didn't let him crash their games???

NOT VERY LIKELY...

[walker 0]

Hi all

In reply to Rambo-16AAB

That is punksbusted NOT evenbalance the people who make punkbuster.

There is a big difference same as your clan site is an Arma clan site but you are not BIS.

Here is the makers of punkbusters site

http://www.evenbalance.com/

That is the site where you have to show a link to a master ban list on.

I wonder why evenbalance the makers of punkbuster do not have it on their own site in fact I cannot even find mention of such on their website.

Rambo-16AAB please point to a page on evenbalance's web site that even mentions it.

Why do you think that is the case?

As I said master ban lists are not needed and are waste of time and effort as well as being a very dangerous legal problem. A simple anti TK system such as Kronzky's is fine.

In reply to Kronzky

I will not argue with you about a database held for a particular server by its owner. I see no issue with it. It is their server and as I stated "The management reserve the right to ban who it wishes." is sufficient to cover all that .

The problem is the very specific one of public ban lists.

I respect all your work and you may have noticed I pointed to your scripts from the start but with all due respect I point you to the UK Data Protection Act, similar laws are enacted through out Europe as part of the 1981 European Convention for the Protection of Individuals with regard to Automatic Processing of Personal Data and to similar laws in the USA and in fact most countries in the world. Do search in Google. The use of such lists is highly regulated by Criminal Law and that is before we delve into civil law Libel.

Quote[/b] ]The Data Protection Act (DPA) is a British Act of Parliament that provides a legal basis and allowing for the privacy and protection of data of individuals in the UK. The act places restrictions on organisations which collect or hold data which can identify a living person. The Act does not apply to domestic use[1], for example keeping a personal address book.

Data collected by any person or organisation may only be used for the specific purposes for which they were collected. Personal data may only be kept for an appropriate length of time and must not be disclosed to other parties without the consent of the data owner. Schools, for example, may decide to keep information on former pupils for no longer than ten years.

The act is overseen by an independent government authority, the Office of the Information Commissioner. Persons and organisations which store personal data must register with the Information Commissioner.

The UK Data Protection Act is a large Act, and has a reputation for complexity.[2] Whilst the basic principles are honoured for protecting privacy, interpreting the act is not always simple...

Follow the link for more information and links to the actual act

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_protection_act

More on this link

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts1998/80029-ah.htm#sch16ptI

I have a simple question for you if the Data is to be held, maintained or edited by any person in the UK.

Who is the person who will be registered with the Data Protection Registrar as the legally liable data controler?

Or equivalent in what ever are the home countries of the people who maintain a copy of the database are as they are the people who are legally liable for the security and and integrity of the data.

Also what are you going to do about passing personal data too and from the EEC as that is extremely tightly controlled.

I would advise anyone considering being involved in public ban lists to seek legal advice before stepping into this.

I think the addition of varied scaled punishments and forgive functions to the existing anti TK scripts are a far more beneficial thing for the community than the dead end of public ban lists.

As I have said Kronzky I think your work is very good and your anti TK program as with the many others such as the ECL ones by Terox are more than adequate for dealing with perhaps a few tens of idiot TK queens.

With the most kind respectful regards walker

[Rambo-16AAB 0]

well, the Data protection act does not apply.

The List of ID number can not be used to identify any person playing the game. The only way this would be possible is if BIS published a list of ID numbers and the names that they are registered to.

As it contains No personal information, eg, names dates of birth, addresses etc it is completely exempt.

Walker, if you dont want to use the list, then dont. If other want to,, then its there own choice, you dont need to keep badgerring this post, myself or anyone else about it. As for ownership of the Data, its not held in the UK, or managed by me for that matter.

[sirex 0]

i dont mean to flog a dead horse walker, but its not a legal problem on any level, at all. period.

edit: and to be honest, it saddens me that we live in a world were legal matters in a situation like this are even discussed.

[walker 0]

Hi All

To Rambo-16AAB and sirex

The data in your proposed database includes a DVD code that is personal to the end user license holder of the game and thus not anonimised as required if it is research data and thus excludable under the Data Protection Act. If it was anonimisable it would be no use in banning.

In the UK the first 15 minutes of time with a solicitor is free. Do your selves a great favour and put my own fears at rest and avail yourself of the facility.

Once again with respectful and kind regards walker

[2Lt High-16AAB- 0]

N/A

[sirex 0]

law is applicable by those local to the server. i.e usa server is under usa law.

it's also notoriously difficult to bring international lawsuits.

however, this entire section of the topic is a non issue, as previously stated.

[Infam0us 10]

Slighty off topic but if anyone ever encounters someone called "UBer NoobbZlorR" Kick him, or indeed from your ArmA server ... here is all the evidence you will need ....

Link - Teamspeak

Makes me chuckle ...

[jerryhopper 286]

while all of you were busy talking about legal yes or no,

i have build a remote server control tool, that harvests PID's and the names.

it has the capability to post that to a central server.

That is IF you want to participate! (thats entirely up to the server owner)

Now, creating a banlist aint the hard job, MAINTAINING IS!

i mean, we dont want a second 'BFROE' story featuring people like indianscout

note : i might have a public version of that tool available this weekend!

[mattxr 9]

WTF is going on.. Jesus &*%£%^

How complicated can this get

A Noob On Server Gets banned, his ID will go onto that servers Ban list..

END OF STORY..

[WE SHALL END THIS NOW, IF A SERVER WANTS TO BAN PLAYERS THEN ITS UP TO THE SERVER ADMIN TO GET THE ID. AND IF THE SERVER ADMIN WANTS TO USE ANOTHER CLANS BAN LIST THEN THAT SERVER ADMIN CAN CONTACT THAT SERVER AND ASK FOR THE BAN LIST, WHO NEEDS GLOBAL BAN LISTS AND SHIT ANYMORE.. ITS UP TO THE SERVER ADMIN WHO HE WANTS BANNED ON HIS SERVER.. GOT THAT.. ]

There is a flaw with a global ban list too, say your in a big clan and you go onto a server and accidentally get banned and added onto a global ban list and it wasn't your fault, you will get banned from most servers and thats bullshit because that will ruin your game for ever.. that happened to me once on call of duty.. and guess what, i never got to play that game online ever again..

so why don't we just let the server admins ban who they want and keep it that way. IF the server admin wants noobs in his server then so be it, but if not they can pickout and ban the noobs he wants or just ask someone for there banlist.

[mattxr 9]

Slighty off topic but if anyone ever encounters someone called "UBer NoobbZlorR" Kick him, or indeed from your ArmA server ... here is all the evidence you will need ....

Link - Teamspeak

Makes me chuckle ...

rofl, thats funny sh*t

[2Lt High-16AAB- 0]

N/A

[Spokesperson 0]

Yarr, so only clan players count. Their whole game is ruined if they get banned. But why nobody else ?

Many high-ranking players are multifaceted. When wearing tags they are honest and polished, but as soon as they change their name and load up a few tools in the background they stab teammates in their backs and cheat as hell. What guarantees are there that they won't abuse the system?

Has any such system been fair or acceptable for users? To me it looks like you want to introduce some kind of CIA or Gestapo lists. Nothing good comes out of that. There's a never ending ocean of TKers and Cheaters, you can't ban them all.

Ever thought about the fact that people can steal other people's IDs?

[mattxr 9]

Yarr, so only clan players count. Their whole game is ruined if they get banned. But why nobody else ?

Many high-ranking players are multifaceted. When wearing tags they are honest and polished, but as soon as they change their name and load up a few tools in the background they stab teammates in their backs and cheat as hell. What guarantees are there that they won't abuse the system?

Has any such system been fair or acceptable for users? To me it looks like you want to introduce some kind of CIA or Gestapo lists. Nothing good comes out of that. There's a never ending ocean of TKers and Cheaters, you can't ban them all.

Ever thought about the fact that people can steal other people's IDs?

Why go though all the hassels of having to sign up to a forum and complaining that you got wrongly banned..

And wtf you talking about.. It goes for anyone.. if those high ranking officers in a clan do that then its up to that servers admin to ban them, if they then got globally banned what would the point be.. We dont want BIS to loose customers becuase some shite system.

If a player wants to get himself banned on a server it should be that server only, not all the servers.. I just dont see the point of having a global ban system in ArmA its a simulator for christs sake not some BF2 style game. Players should be mature enought to know the differnce between right and wrong. And if they keep going from one server to another and keep getting banned then thats there problem.. Its a differnt story if they do something wrong then get banned on all servers..

Plus another thing wrong with this system is if you ban a server full of people because your a NOOB Admin you will have then banned a server full of innocent people..

And theres many other factors i cant beassed to get into because its pointless when it should be up to the server admin who he bans not someone else who adds to a list.. blah blah ...

[Hostilian 11]

I think its a terrible idea to have a 'Global' ban list.

Its up to the server Admins to ban whoever they want from their own server. This system is far too open to abuse by dodgy Admins - and of course 'human error'..

Please can this idea.. Password servers if you must (Like 6th sense for example) and keep your own ban list.

#C

[jerryhopper 286]

I think its a terrible idea to have a 'Global' ban list.

Its up to the server Admins to ban whoever they want from their own server. This system is far too open to abuse by dodgy Admins - and of course 'human error'..

Please can this idea.. Password servers if you must (Like 6th sense for example) and keep your own ban list.

#C

its up to the server admin to participate in such an effort. end of story.

back to the point.  i got xml output that posts to a url given in the config file.

the xmlscanning occurs on restart ( due to Arma accessing the netlog file. )  

AFter scanning, it empties the net.log file, and restarts server.

im building in a periodically restart option, which could restart the server at certain given times. like each day at 04:00 am or such.

so, who's man enough to be 'head' of banlist, and starts setting up protocols of participating? * ive seen nice ideas already *

then, the banlist. who hosts it and where? i only need the pids for the player-tracker, but the data can be used for more things.

the option is in the servertool im building,  you can supply post-url for the logs, which will post the data to that place.

Tournaments, clans, and serverfarms could have use of such an option.

lil update, the servercontrol now cleans the net.log, and spits out a nicely formed xml with netlog actions ( admin loggedin, player connected/disconnected )

no release yet....  be patient.

but i can show you the configuration file....

Quote[/b] ]

[server]

ip:127.0.0.1

port:2302

location:E:\\Program Files\\Bohemia Interactive\\ArmA\\

exename:armA_server.exe

[settings]

config:server.cfg

mod:

netlog:1

world:

noland:

[crashreporting]

crashdir:C:\\Documents and Settings\\username\\Local Settings\\Application Data\\ArmA

mailto:support@bistudio.com

[custom]

idscan:1

posturl:www.yourserver.com/armacontrol.php

banlisturl:www.yourserver.com/banlist.???

quick overhaul : you can harvest PIDS an player history for statistical purposes, use a global banlist over multiple servers, and optional auto crash reporting to spam BIS all without ANY user intervntion.

best of all, ALL options are OPTIONAL!

Peoples who are interested, know where to find me....

stay cool, and dont get