War on terrorism?

[el Gringo Loco 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">dont remember who it was, maybe Sokrates of ancient greece who said "if only people would know how little inteligence the ones ruling our nations posses"<span id='postcolor'>

Sounds like Plato to me in book VIII

[nordin dk 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Now is the opportunity for the USA to literally put its money where its mouth is. Before the invasion they proposed exactly this action; to rebuild Afghanistan to the point that they can again function as a civilised nation. Will this happen? Time will tell.<span id='postcolor'>

You mean, will they build that oil-pipeline that all this is really about? Oh yes they will. And they will do it with the right hand, while building housings and hospitals with the left.

Quid pro quo??

And so in the long run, the Afghani people will not benefit from that oil-pipeline, but the US will. And the Al-queda will move their "Camp Pshyco" to Saudi Arabia or Somalia or the Philipines, and there will be more terrorist attacks later on.

...probably...

I just hope the grassroot organisations can get some work done there, setting up schools, farms etc. etc.

[Pete 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (L24A @ Feb. 10 2002,12:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">dont remember who it was, maybe Sokrates of ancient greece who said "if only people would know how little inteligence the ones ruling our nations posses"<span id='postcolor'>

Sounds like Plato to me in book VIII <span id='postcolor'>

could very much be him....i remember it was one of those really famous dudes

kinda funny (or sad?) that his thoughts are still valid today......

[Stag 0]

I'm not American, nor do I blindly believe in the goodness of the American government. But half-baked "Theories" are fair game, as far as I'm concerned.

Before 9/11, it seems to me that the U.S. did exactly what you described. But a high state of alert can only be maintained for so long before complacency comes back. maybe not this year, maybe not next but eventually, the guard will slip, and at least one terrorist will get through, and American civilians will die.Now you can wait for that to happen, or you can get out there and hunt the terrorists down where they are trained.

With international co-operation, it need never involve an invasion of the scale of Afghanistan.

But if I remember correctly, Afghanistan wasn't that interested in co-operation.

As for the carpet bombing/casualties; You are absolutely correct, I was getting your argments mixed up with someone else, who was accusing the US of carpet bombing civilians, and the consequent death toll.

I see no problem with carpet bombing military targets. Anybody who thinks war is fair is living in a different reality. Don't like carpet bombing? Don't give your enemy an excuse to go to war.

It's been stated before on this forum that the US will only go to war for oil, or profit. But Since Vietnam, I can think of NO INSTANCE where the US has done nothing but REACT to a situation; Desert Storm was about Oil. So it was. Jeez, I guess Iraq shouldn't have INVADED in the first place then. Bosnia. Ethnic Cleansing; Oh, those American rascals, going in there, just waiting for an excuse.

And 9/11.

I flipped a channel on the TV just in time to see the second aircraft hit the tower. It is one of the most horrific things I have ever seen in my life. and your solution would not be to hunt those bastards down? Afghanistan was given a CHOICE: Hand over Al-Qeda, or suffer the consquences.

None of the victims of 9/11 were given a choice.

[nordin dk 0]

Plato's thoughts will always be valid, as goes for all great thinkers. Even if their thought-constructions don't fit modern day society, there are truths about the human mind that will never change.

[Stag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">about the handling of the "war against terrorism"..you simply cant win it or end it by only hunting the terrorist bases and nations harboring them...it wont work, IRA is highly cabable organisation, and they dont really have much of a camp to train in far as i know.........<span id='postcolor'>

The IRA used to train in Libya. And who can forget the millions they got for weapons from there sponsors in the good ol' US of A? Interesting partnership, all things considered.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">to end terrorism...you really do need to remove the cause from them, thats the weapon they have, thats the fuel for the fire, i cant understand how people fail to see the logic of this.<span id='postcolor'>

I say again, you are perfectly correct.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">but then again...our political leaders arent the smartest among us, just look at bush..what would you expect from a man of his inteligence?

nothing but violence and stupidity.

dont remember who it was, maybe Sokrates of ancient greece who said "if only people would know how little inteligence the ones ruling our nations posses"

its those stupid fools (not only usa, more like all our leaders) that bring us into trouble over and over again.<span id='postcolor'>

Totally true, The really clever people know to stay well away from politics.

[Stag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Now is the opportunity for the USA to literally put its money where its mouth is. Before the invasion they proposed exactly this action; to rebuild Afghanistan to the point that they can again function as a civilised nation. Will this happen? Time will tell.<span id='postcolor'>

You mean, will they build that oil-pipeline that all this is really about? Oh yes they will. And they will do it with the right hand, while building housings and hospitals with the left.

Quid pro quo??<span id='postcolor'>

Considering the sterling work of the Taliban, just about anything would be an improvement for the average Afghan.

Like I said: Time will tell.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And so in the long run, the Afghani people will not benefit from that oil-pipeline, but the US will. And the Al-queda will move their "Camp Pshyco" to Saudi Arabia or Somalia or the Philipines, and there will be more terrorist attacks later on.

...probably...<span id='postcolor'>

Then those countries had better believe it when the US says "Shut them down, or WE will."

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I just hope the grassroot organisations can get some work done there, setting up schools, farms etc. etc.<span id='postcolor'>

Amen. and if that is all that is done, then that will still be more than Afghanistan had before.

[Decimus 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Its good to see your such a nice person....*sigh* At least I can make my own opinions and not regergitate stuff I see on CNN. <span id='postcolor'>

I'm not saying you regurgitate what you see on CNN but from where exactly do you get your infinite knowledge?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I was using "carpet bombing" as a generalization, no need to flip out. <span id='postcolor'>

You can hardly say I flipped out.  I merely, if forcefully, stated that I think you're wrong.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well I do know this about Vietnam. I know they were planning to bomb the dams in N.Vietnam in an attempt to flood the rice paddies so that they could starve out the V.C. (good idea if you ask me) but they could not because of "political" reasons.

They also wanted to bomb the ports in N.Vietnam so they could cut off the NVA's and VC's supplies. But the politicians were afraid that it would cause Soviet casualties so they didn't.

I also know that most of the bombs were dropped in S.Vietnam, not in the North where they should have been. I also know that the U.S. could have won the war with half the casualties if the politicians just had some balls and bombed the North.

<span id='postcolor'>

And this validates your opinion of why America fought the Vietnam Conflict?  These have nothing to little to do with the socio-political events that led up to America's involvement.  You seem to have missed the point.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No. I am none of those things. But why do I have to be one in order to have an opinion of my own? Only politicians should have opinions? That seems rather narrow minded. Excuse me for formulating an opinion of my own, what the f*ck was I thinking?? Where did I say "I know everything there is to know"? Could you point that out?<span id='postcolor'>

You seem to be making a lot of assumptions with little to back them up except for your own opinion.  Those who pretend to know something are worse than those who actually know nothing.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So, you joined back in July and they will be shipping you out with only a year in? Damn, they must be short on troops down there. I've been in for 13 months myself (as a weekend warrior). I'm going to university before I join the Regs.<span id='postcolor'>

2 things: the Candian Army doesn't count and being a "weekend warrior" you wouldn't be shipped out with that little experience, however if you are active you are more likely to be shipped out.

[Wobble 1]

to end terrorism...you really do need to remove the cause from them

I hate to break it to you.. but the reason these terrorists (al-queda) hates the US is because of the western lifestyle.. they see our socity and way of life as evil..  nothing short of us cesing to exist would "remove the cause"..

the way they see it, if you dont follow THEIR rules.. even if you dont live in their country or on the same contenent you are evil and should die..  so as far as they are concerened everyone who doesent agree with them should be dead.. and that doesent just go for the US.. it goes for the UK..etc.. the US just happens to be their "poster child" for what is evil.. so they attack it...

kinda hard to remove that cause..

[foxer 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I hate to break it to you.. but the reason these terrorists (al-queda) hates the US is because of the western lifestyle.. they see our socity and way of life as evil.. nothing short of us cesing to exist would "remove the cause"..<span id='postcolor'>

Yes maybe for the suicide bombers,but not bin laden.This is how Bin laden gets his terrorists ,The people in the middle(before they are known terrorist) see americans on tv,thinking all americans are rich and their all christians(or anti-muslim),also because of our woman ,how they dress and all of that.Well ,let's just say they hate us.

But for bin laden,it's the power,nothing more(like i said before).

Also i would like to add america doesn't have time,everyday nuclear stuff is getting in the wrong hands everyday,also chemicals too.America doesn't have time to win over the middle east again.

[Wobble 1]

Yes maybe for the suicide bombers,but not bin laden

I dont see how he doesent?

he was super ritch.. he has(or had) money and power... yet he chose to fight anyway.. .. he was just fine before, the US never did anything to threaten his money or power.. unless im missing something   but yet he chose to dedicate (and eventually sacrifice) his life to fight the US.. I just done see how power could be the answer.. he laready had money.. and in the middle east money IS power.. so as far as finincal he had nothing to gain by attacking the US.. so what other motive other than a deep seeded hatred for the US would make a super ritch guy like that... seems kinda like a nothing to gain everything to lose situation to me..

I just cant see how power is an issue

[foxer 0]

The power to send people on their death mission,the power of a martyr to the muslim people(some),the power to control people.The power to show the USA that he can hurt us too,the power to show the world how strong he is,The power of all muslims listening to his opinion because he killed americans,which in fact probably half or more then half think we got what it got because of what we do.Because like i said before if this wasn't about some type of power he would be bombing russia and some oother countries right now.

I'm sure that if saudis never kicked him out he would have never been a problem to the USA.

[Wobble 1]

ahh I see where your coming from.. not really power.. but a power trip.. I.E. dance puppets dance.. thats interesting, i never though of it that way, it does make quite a bit of sense though.. so he:

A: warps their minds

B: uses them to play war

he's like a 10 year old with toy soldiers... we had GI-Joe.. he has the Taleban..

wow.. it makes more sense the more ya think of it..

[Placebo 29]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wobble @ Feb. 11 2002,09:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">he's like a 10 year old with toy soldiers...  we had GI-Joe.. he has the Taleban..<span id='postcolor'>

LMAO I like it, a perfect "Wobble'ism"

[MrLaggy 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wobble @ Feb. 11 2002,06:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I hate to break it to you.. but the reason these terrorists (al-queda) hates the US is because of the western lifestyle.. they see our socity and way of life as evil..  nothing short of us cesing to exist would "remove the cause"..<span id='postcolor'>

Maybe you could post some proof of that? I know it's what the US government wants you to believe, because then there's no alternative to a permanent war for peace, but that's not what bin Laden himself has said. As I said before, he's stated quite clearly that he's attacking America because of their troops in Saudi, their support for Israel and a few other odds and ends... America's rich and decadent lifestyle is irrelevant, as long as they keep their nose out of the Middle East.

[Akira 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I hate to break it to you.. but the reason these terrorists (al-queda) hates the US is because of the western lifestyle.. they see our socity and way of life as evil..  nothing short of us cesing to exist would "remove the cause"..<span id='postcolor'>

Maybe you could post some proof of that? I know it's what the US government wants you to believe, because then there's no alternative to a permanent war for peace, but that's not what bin Laden himself has said. As I said before, he's stated quite clearly that he's attacking America because of their troops in Saudi, their support for Israel and a few other odds and ends... America's rich and decadent lifestyle is irrelevant, as long as they keep their nose out of the Middle East.<span id='postcolor'>

I used to live in Germany at Rhein-Main AFB. I was there (and heard the explosion) when a Red Army Faction car bomb went off right in front of my Dad's work place. Only two people were killed (if you can call that lucky) because everyone had gone in early that day (the bomb was timed for when everyone usually got to work). My Dad (on the opposite side of the building) was blown out of his chair. I was about 11 or 12 when this happened. While in Germany, as part of our elementary classes, we were given safety courses, and information on terrorists, what to look out for, etc etc etc. When Reagan bombed Libya the base went on lock down, and there were armed MPs on every corner. No civilian cars could get on or off base. I was there when the Achilli Lauro was hijacked, when the TWA flight (among other planes) was hijacked, when the disco in Berlin was bombed, and when Pan Am 103 happened I just got back from Enlgand, and had used that very plane on our short jaunt from Germany to London when we moved there. I'm used to being a hated, hunted American. And I don't need the "propoganda" machine to believe what I believe...I dealt personally with it every day while in Germany (and a lesser extent England).

It's always interesting when someone says  that we believe what we see on the news and what we are told, and for that have been taken in by the "propoganda machine."

And then they turn around and believe for face value what Bin Laden says.

Bin Laden said before that he had nothing to do with the attacks...he was "innocent". And then the video from Al Jazerra (so you can't say it was faked by the US) turned up in which he admited he was a terrorist, and made reference to at least some knowledge of the planning of the attacks (when CNN aired this video Al Jazeera terminated its "affiliation" with CNN).

And as I have stated long before (and I guess I will state again), you can believe Bin Laden if you want, believe the reasons he gives and his holy quest of Jihad, but I believe it boils down to something more human and more basic. It all comes down to a "will to power" (Neitschze--trying to keep up with all the Plato and Socrates people) and nothing more. His status as a "holy crusader" I believe has turned him decidedly unholy, and to the path of a narcissistic socio-path. He spreads, death, and destruction because he can. I have no doubt that he BELIEVES he is being holy, when in reality he is crossing the very words of the Koran (did a paper on the western perception of "Jihad",and the actual use and meaning of it in the Koran).

I will give him the benifit of the doubt in that when he started down this road in Afghanistan ( I speak of fighting the Soviets), religious idealism might have been his driving force. And he certainly had no problem accepting American capitalist, decadent money to fund his freedom fight and drive the Soviets out. And despite the decade war he fought against the Soviets and their aggression against Muslims, he has never attacked or threaten to attack Russia (yes yes...they are the Lesser Satan).

Muslim countries have historically fought tremendous wars against themselves. In a region that is, at least in propoganda theory, united in the Muslim cause, there has been more strife between Muslim nations than between Muslim and the US or even Muslim and Isreal. Hussein has attacked a number of his Muslim neighbors (which is forbidden in the Koran), and yet he is not viewed as a "bad muslim" or even attacked for his "unholy" ways.

Europe has oppressed and subjectated the Middle East and Africa far more than the US ever could.  

A number of countries support Isreal, and even a number of Arab states are actually thawing relations with them and opening diplomatic dialogue. He does nothing to them.

Jordan held the Gaza strip for 15 years before the war in which Isreal took it away. Fifteen years the Palistinians lived in Jordan with no individual state and no mention of it. Jordan (and a number of other countries) attack Isreal, simply for being a Jewish state, and are soundly spanked. Now all of a sudden Isreal is the great oppressor, and the Palistinian cause is born. Why did the Palestinians not demand their own free independant state from Jordan for the 15 years they were under their rule?

A number of countries (again Russia for example), have threatened and oppressed Muslims and Muslim states far more than the US has, and yet he targets the US.

Everything that he blames us for is even in his Middle Eastern neighbors and allies and yet he never threatens them. It is the hypocrisy of his "holy cause".

So what does that leave for his cause? Nothing other a dislike for our culture and living style. To kill those that are different than him. His cause is about as holy as the Nazi's.

So no...I don't believe Bin Laden when he spouts about Isreal and US in Saudi Arabia and all that daily changing crap. You can if you want, but in the end its the power he craves and the power to control thousands pure and simple.

Some say that in order to stop terrorism that the "causes" must be taken away. Well right now his only cause is the because the US exsists, and we ain't going no where (mush to the dismay of many of you).

Bin Laden will ALWAYS find a cause, whether it be his mispercieved Western oppression, or because they didn't put onions on his taco....it doesn't matter. He will always have a cause. He, unfortunately, has learned that fighting is what he likes to do, and he will always find a reason to. First Soviets, and now US.

Taking away causes will only breed new ones, real or imaginary. What must be done is hunting down the exsistant camps and destorying them. Finding terrorists and prosecuting them, or killing them. Take away whatever economic conditions in countries that make people suddenly feel "Hey...I'm gonna go walk into a market with a bomb and blow myself up."

But the sad fact is its human nature, and someone will always want to kill someone else because they are different or have something that they want. Your "causes" while noble and grand in the abstract, in reality will do little to end terrorism.

Gonna have to take a break now....

{edited for added personal dealings with terrorism--and stupid spelling errors}

[Akira 0]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4350590,00.html

Interesting.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Hoho Akira hoho calm down will ya! dont give me this: am used to be hated because I am American (less in England now than before in Germany).

Which bombing by the Red Army Fraction do you mean? What did they have to do with the Americans? BTW if you are talking about Rhein Main than I think you mean the killing of Mr. Schleyer by the RAF (I went to boarding school with his grand-son). Schleyer was killed in 1975 (Schleyer represented the capitalism), the discotheque LaBelle in Berlin was blown up in 1985, but not by Germans (or their propaganda-machinery) but by lybian terrorists! I think the Germans during this time suffered more under their anti-capitalist-terrorism than any US citizen living in Germany under this dicotheque-explosion (3 people died).

Germany (especially during that time) was obliged to be Pro-american. Germany was an un-emancipated country (politically still fully dependant on the US). It was the time of the Cold-war, Germany was seperated and and not even thirty years since WWII had passed. Do you seriously think anyone would have dared to speak up agains the US?

What the hell you mean by anti-american-propaganda? What the hell are you telling there! Out of pure logic it cant have been that you have felt American-resentiments it wouldnt fit into the time.

YOu were not the hunted and hated American

[Akira 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hoho Akira hoho calm down will ya! dont give me this: am used to be hated because I am American (less in England now than before in Germany).

Which bombing by the Red Army Fraction do you mean? What did they have to do with the Americans? BTW if you are talking about Rhein Main than I think you mean the killing of Mr. Schleyer by the RAF (I went to boarding school with his grand-son). Schleyer was killed in 1975 (Schleyer represented the capitalism), the discotheque LaBelle in Berlin was blown up in  1985, but not by Germans (or their propaganda-machinery) but by lybian terrorists! I think the Germans during this time suffered more under their anti-capitalist-terrorism than any US citizen living in Germany under this dicotheque-explosion (3 people died).

Germany (especially during that time) was obliged to be Pro-american. Germany was an un-emancipated country (politically still fully dependant on the US).  It was the time of the Cold-war, Germany was seperated and and not even thirty years since WWII had passed. Do you seriously think anyone would have dared to speak up agains the US?

What the hell you mean by anti-american-propaganda? What the hell are you telling there! Out of pure logic it cant have been that you have felt American-resentiments it wouldnt fit into the time.

YOu were not the hunted and hated American<span id='postcolor'>

Whoa there sea biscuit!

I wasn't talking at all about Germany not being pro-American or anything like that. In fact while I was there, (around 1985) the German people were great. I remember one time our class (I went to elementary school on Rhein-Main AFB), was bussed to a German school for bicycle safety class (in retrospect I have no idea why), but all the German students followed us and ran after us practicing their English with us. While our teachers tried to keep us herded we'd go off and try to practice our German with the students. That and the German school we went to was the nicest school I have EVER seen. Dunno why that sticks in my head but it does.

As for Rhein-Main AFB, thats where my Dad was stationed, outside of Frankfurt. The Red Army Faction (I think it was a German Communist terrorist organization....or wanted the Americans out or something...I forget...you probably know better than I do), parked a car bomb right in front of my Dads office, ON BASE. Two passer-bys were killed. I have a video of the aftermath with my Dad pointing and showing where the blast was and everything, and pictures of the damage. Can also see the Buick that we had shipped over completely mangled...the funny thing was the Buick was a wreck...and yet the dashboard clock still worked....go figure.

Having personally dealt with terrorism, I was merely making some observations, as each one of those events effected my life directly (as many Germans) being an American service dependant in Germany.

My point was, Islamic (and some other nationalities) terror organizations even back in '85 were considered a threat to US citizens overseas, enough so that they taught us, the school children (!), what to look for and how to be safe. That the causes Bin Laden claims, as well as other terror organizations, change constantly and depending on the political climate. That they are merely oppurtunists and hypocrites...thats when I started my long diatribe on my examples.

My "propoganda machine" comment was in reference to Mr. Laggy saying that he doesn't believe what Bush or the Media tells him or says, but he will believe Bin Laden at face value. It was also generally in reference to people that say Americans blindly follow what the media etc, says. I was merely pointing out that I've had experience with this and I don't need the media to tell me what I think about terrorism.

[Akira 0]

http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/raf.htm

This is the group I was talking about...mentions the Rhein Main bombing...

[jaxx 0]

Sounds like german commie-terrorists to me.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (jaxx @ Feb. 11 2002,23:06)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sounds like german commie-terrorists to me.<span id='postcolor'>

Dont ask me what they actually stood for! But in the seventies there were a lot of confused people on this earth.

[Assault (CAN) 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">where exactly do you get your infinite knowledge?<span id='postcolor'>

I never claimed I had it. I read papers, watch news (CBC), talk to people, talk to my teachers, read personal opinions (articles) over the net and such. I formulate my own opinions based on that. What else would you like me to do? Where is your Bible of facts that I can reasearch from?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> merely, if forcefully, stated that I think you're wrong.<span id='postcolor'>

So the U.S. didn't do any carpet bombing missions inside Afghanistan?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And this validates your opinion of why America fought the Vietnam Conflict? <span id='postcolor'>

No. Never said it did, I was just giving my opinion as to PART of the reason they lost it. Feel free to add to that, I dont feel like writing an essay on the history of the Vietnam war. This is a terrorist thread. If you feel like explaining to me why Vietnam is a good comparison to our modern day problem, feel free to explain to me in one hell of a long post.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You seem to be making a lot of assumptions with little to back them up except for your own opinion. Those who pretend to know something are worse than those who actually know nothing.<span id='postcolor'>

Explain to me what you think that I am assuming or pretending to know? Do you know everything? Did I say that I did? Sorry for having an opinion. (allow me to simplify) I just think that Bush is barking up the wrong tree.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> the Candian Army doesn't count <span id='postcolor'>

You think I don't know that? . The blame for that lies squarly on the head of our Liberal politicians. Not our troops, if that is what you were getting at.

I thought that they wouldn't let you go overseas until you had a few years in.

Tyler

[Akira 0]

My brother got shipped overseas right out of boot camp. It was kinda funny. He joined up in part to "see the world" and move around...the Army sent him right back to Rhein-Main! hehehe

Poor bastard....

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Actually I am wondering why it is called Vietnam-war, it should be called Cambodja-Vietnam war. Most fighting and bombing went on in Cambodja even though the struggle was in Vietnam.

The advantage of this would be that most naive people that talk about the big battles along the "Ho chih minh track" would know that this is NOT in Vietnam. (even though Ho Chih Minh city is in Vietnam).