DEFCON: Everybody Dies

[EiZei 0]

You can definetly see that the writers of that manual are british and they have seen Threads.

[ade_mcc 0]

For the record, I haven't personally removed the weeping lady myself.

And Everyone Dies sums it up completely. There are no winners in Global Nuclear Warfare.

[xawery 0]

Hey, thanks for that recommendation Eizei, "Threads" sounds very interesting indeed!

Btw K@voven, the experiment you are referring to was performed by Dr. Milgram. He made a short film about it, called "Obedience". It's freely available and can be downloaded from torrent sites. It's really worth watching, I can tell you that!

[ade_mcc 0]

Quote[/b] ]I can't see any sence in this simulation despite the fact that it can make you think about the topic.

If you remove the nuking part of the game (which gained the game a lot of attention), then the other major part of the game is one of forming allegiances and betrail. Since there can only be one winner, or to put it more correctly, there can be only one person who loses the least, then a huge amont of time can be spent in the game co-ordinating with other players, forming secret aliances and generally spending a lot of time in general paranoia watching your bounderies.

Its just that the victims in question are the faceless masses who don't generally get much of a say in the whole affair.

Going back to your quote above, my girlfriend says exactly the same thing about flashpoint. My reply being that the subject facinates me on many levels.

[EiZei 0]

Hey, thanks for that recommendation Eizei, "Threads" sounds very interesting indeed!

Oh it is. There are no heroes, silver linings, last minute redemptions or any kind of banding together in face of adversity. Contrast this with the american idea of a nuclear holocaust seen in Jericho, for example.

And by the way.. it's on Google Video for free.

[-Variable- 0]

Quote[/b] ]

According to Wikipedia, ICBM's can be intercepted. The fun part about this game is that if you orchestrate an organised strike, no amount of AA will save the enemy. Give it a go

The current ABM systems are far from working, they have been able to take out some test targets with variable success and those have been carefully controlled tests with things like radio beacons attached to the target and no countercountermeasures.

Not true. Israel has developed an Anti Balistic Missile System named "Hetz" (Arrow). This system reached operational status last year. It succesfuly destroyed dummy missiles that recreated the true course of a balistic missilie (They had to specially built a new kind of missile for that purpose).

By the way, the first agreement between the USSR and the USA limited the number of ABM batteries to 2 around each capital, thus, ABM systems are not a new invention."Hetz" Missile

[kavoven 4]

Hey, thanks for that recommendation Eizei, "Threads" sounds very interesting indeed!

Btw K@voven, the experiment you are referring to was performed by Dr. Milgram. He made a short film about it, called "Obedience". It's freely available and can be downloaded from torrent sites. It's really worth watching, I can tell you that!

Thanks for the ReadMe, was quite interesting

I will read/watch the rest tomorrow, too much to do this evening, but I'm glad that so many people responded to my view

@ade_mcc

But still I know WHY I attack in OFP. There is a story behind all this and if I see some soldiers shooting one of my best "friends" (Res, Victor Traskas situation in mission 2) it's really easy to know who is black and who is white.

But in this game I really don't know why I attack the other country. In addition, it isn't that fictional, because that are real places. When I read "a nuke exploded in Berlin", I can imagine, how horrible this would look like, because it's a real city and I was actually "responsible" for this. So in my opinion there is a huge difference between shooting enemy soldiers in OFP and erasing whole cities from the map, like in Defcon.

In OFP it's the anonymus soldier you see running in front of your crosshair. In Defcon it's maybe your neighbour.

There is another good example for this. Perhaps one of you played all three Gothic parts. (It's an RPG)

The main counterpart of the player where the orcs in this game. In 1 & 2 they only could make some pig-like noises, but in part 3 they actually good real voices and you talked to them and they gave you objectives and so one. But the problem is that they have invaded the land of mankind, so in general I should free the land from the orcs. But the fact that they talked to me and that they were some kind of kind to me, stopped me thinking "it's big, it has a weapon, it's an enemy, so I kill it to gain XP"

And there I stood, because I neither wanted to kill the orcs and free the country, nor kill the rebells and help the orcs.

So this question is getting really, really complex...

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

alot of games have morality from the users. I fly il2 online alot, and if you go to servers that are 100% realistic settings, Pilots will often let you attempt to fly home or crash land if they have badly damaged you.

[EiZei 0]

Quote[/b] ]

According to Wikipedia, ICBM's can be intercepted. The fun part about this game is that if you orchestrate an organised strike, no amount of AA will save the enemy. Give it a go

The current ABM systems are far from working, they have been able to take out some test targets with variable success and those have been carefully controlled tests with things like radio beacons attached to the target and no countercountermeasures.

Not true. Israel has developed an Anti Balistic Missile System named "Hetz" (Arrow). This system reached operational status last year. It succesfuly destroyed dummy missiles that recreated the true course of a balistic missilie (They had to specially built a new kind of missile for that purpose).

By the way, the first agreement between the USSR and the USA limited the number of ABM batteries to 2 around each capital, thus, ABM systems are not a new invention."Hetz" Missile

What kind of ballistic missiles? I seriously doubt they managed to effectively prevent MIRV'd ICBMs.

[-Variable- 0]

What kind of ballistic missiles? I seriously doubt they managed to effectively prevent MIRV'd ICBMs.

The Hetz system is currently designated to deal with a the threat of Scud missiles and Sheehab 3 missiles. Although it is designated to destroy the attacking missile in the Stratosphere, I dont think it can handle MIRV systems. As far as I know, even the USSR at the time found it difficult to built MIRV systems, so currently the US, which is not a threat to Israel, is the only nation to have this kind of missiles.

[EiZei 0]

What kind of ballistic missiles? I seriously doubt they managed to effectively prevent MIRV'd ICBMs.

The Hetz system is currently designated to deal with a the threat of Scud missiles and Sheehab 3 missiles. Although it is designated to destroy the attacking missile in the Stratosphere, I dont think it can handle MIRV systems. As far as I know, even the USSR at the time found it difficult to built MIRV systems, so currently the US, which is not a threat to Israel,  is the only nation to have this kind of missiles.

Actually, they did manage to develop MIRV missiles and before that they simply compensated with a slightly dumber way.. they made insane amounts of single-warhead missiles.

Even the british Tridents use MIRVs.

[xawery 0]

I just watched Threads, and what can I say... Harrowing. I watched The War Game (not to be confused with Wargames) right after that, and even though it's a good film, it's not half as candid as Threads. I especially liked the fact that the authors speculated about the state of society 10+ years after the war. I often wondered about the effects of a nuclear exchange, but never considered the major impact lack of education would have upon the first post-war generation. The primitive version of English the children were speaking really got to me.

And yes, the illustrations from the DEFCON manual come straight from this film. Even some of the wording (especially about building a lean-to)! Highly recommended.

[Tovarish 0]

This game reminded me of a 1980's Soviet anti-war cartoon, and sure enough, it's on the internet now

'Conflict' (no knowledge of Russian required)

[xawery 0]

Brilliant stuff, Tovarish. Btw, have you seen "Letters from a dead man"? I can't seem to find it anywhere.

[-Variable- 0]

A good film about Nuclear war is "Dr. Strangelove" by Stanley Kubrick. It is actually taught in Academic Strategy courses. Very reccomended.

[Tovarish 0]

Brilliant stuff, Tovarish. Btw, have you seen "Letters from a dead man"? I can't seem to find it anywhere.

Haven't seen it, just looked it up on wikipedia, looks interesting, but yeah, seems impossible to find.

[AfrographX 0]

Just recently discovered this game and I'm lovin it ! After I managed to overcome the moral issue of killing millions and millions of people I started to enjoy it. At least a new game that runs smoothly on my old sys.

There are so much possibilities to play the game. Mostly I rely on 1. eliminating the enemies fleet (I never split my navy) 2. try to take out as much of the enemies silos, radars and airbases as possible with the ship-based bombers and the submarines 3. annihilate the enemies cities.

Or when I don't manage to eliminate the enemies navy I try to hide my subs as long as possible and when the enemy fires his silo-based nukes, I fire the sub-nukes all at once on the major cities.

[Blake 0]

Ahh, this brings back memories from old CBS Coleco Vision game 'WarGames' which is of course related to the movie. I loved it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WarGames_(game)

EDIT: Thx Eizei for link to 'Threads' I've looked forward to watching that...

[xawery 0]

I recently played DEFCON against human players, and it's a completely different game with a new dimension to it. Alliances crumble over misinterpretations of other players' actions, pointless retaliatory strikes ensue... Amazing what a 50 MB game can deliver. I wonder what a six player game would look like...

[Pathy 0]

If anyone fancies a game....