An open letter to the ArmA community.

[desertfox 2]

@ Delirium

[Rhodite 3]

Lets keep it constructive..

Thanks

[Kevlar2007 1]

@Sickboy:

Why is this forum listed at the support part of Arma Homepage when it is only a community forum?

[fubarno1 0]

....

I don't think anyone will follow that route as its too easy for emails to be ignored behind the scenes, at least this way they are managing to air their concerns where they can actually be seen rather than being sent off to never never land with only the thought that at least they think they aired their complaint to someone.

I sent an email early December as per instructions from Placebo to both support@bistudio.com and support@idea-games.com concerning my issues as of yet I still have no reply, but what the hell its a holiday period and they may get around to answering some that they think they can answer before Feb 2007 who knows.

The problem we have is that there is no active PR from BIS, anyone with any problems are instructed to post it on the wiki or send an email to the distributors and thats the last we hear from it, I suppose some of us were expecting the same type of contribution from the dev's like when they first released OFP "flies round shit" seems a good analogy different dev's were in and out of different support posts offering guidance and possible solutions, but of course OFP may have been a make or break situation for them especially with them being basically an unknown developing company, hence the reason for such activity from them back in 2001.

Now they already have a firm foot through the door maybe they don't feel they need to cradle their products any longer especially with having no big name pushing them to make sure their big name reputation does not suffer any undue bad press from a buggy product, the fact is that new players and old players are concerned with the level of silence coming from BIS at this time.

If you take away the pretty look of ArmA then its basically really no different to OFP, maybe those that have the skills and knowledge are able to see the true potential of the ArmA engine, but most purchasers of a game are not coding geeks, or know the ins and outs of scripting, all they have is whats offered to them in a box and if that falls short of their expectations then they can be expected to voice their disappointment in whatever media is available to them, we have die-hard fans of BIS that wont see nothing said against BIS, and each of us have our own opinion of what BIS plans are for ArmA, and unless we are in the know? All of us can only speculate that BIS are capable of bringing ArmA to the same shine that they did with OFP, I really hope that they can. I was one that sang BIS praises to anyone who was interested in OFP, but now I'm less vocal in handing out that praise.

I'm a consumer that purchased a product that may have only cost a few Euros or a few hundred Euros, cost is immaterial if the quality of the supplied end product is not up to scratch then I will exercise my right to complain about it with as much freedom as those that wish to sing its praises, there is one thing that is different though!

Those that are complaining are not posting in the praise threads about how bad they think ArmA is (maybe some are) and calling those that have posted "BIS brown noeses and be patient it will only get worse", but those same people seem to think that because they like the game and can't understand what people are complaining about, they have to come and troll the complaint threads to belittle those that do complain, if they are so happy with the game why are they wasting their time reading the complaints.

@ Desertfox

Whats it like down there, after all you took the time, care, and trouble to find an image that offered absolutely nothing to this topic  

[Dallas 9]

I skipped a few corners and posts, mostly because I've seen these discussions and open letters on every official gaming forum I ever visited or moderated.

Did someone ever answer Pacos assumtion about AI driver, actually being human divers, based on their skill level actually following the roads?

AIs are perfectly capable to follow roads aslong as they are driving 'careless'(maybe even safe) and at limited speeds. AI will always be AI and might sometimes miss a waypoint and screw up when they try to correct it. But generally AIs do a decent job in careless mode.

As for these open letters, discussions, whiners contra fanboys. I see this as a natural consequence of comsumers are or are lead to believe they are becomming more involved. I see it as partisan politics. Consumers, forum members and players alike trying to create a buzz, a hype. It's already recogniced as the best and cheapest marketing strategy to get PR running mouth to mouth and we're apart of it.

Some come here to get information about the product and others come here to provide. As I said: You either love it or hate it... or think it's ok. The forum lobbyists ofcause have diffrent issues to press, some press the critical or negative message, some promote a positive or faithful message. But while some discussion appear to be a dialouge, it sometimes seem like people are really addressing and trying to influense a third party. Either to buy or not buy the game.

I think we already got other threads to cover this threads issues, it's nothing but another forum cycle between pros and cons.

We got the same members, saying the same things. Using different levels of eloquence sniping at eachothers.

-How about when one finds a bug, report it, take a little time to research if it's been reported over and over and try to locate the place to report it.

[Delirium 0]

@ Delirium

Here was the pic describing where worse people live.

So little fox, I know who you are with your better and worse people. I really feel sorry for you. I don't mind where people live or who they are unlike you.

[jtec 0]

Lets get to simple terms here. If you dont enjoy the bugs, return the game, you all have the right to return the game and get your cash back to purchase another game. Really is that simple guys.

I deffo will be buying the UK version, and cant wait to get hold of the modding tools that will hopefully be released soon. This game is gonna rock when the bugs are ironed out, and we all know they will be ironed out fairly quickly.

Cheers again BIS for your commitment to producing a piece of software that no other game company can produce.

[EiZei 0]

Lets get to simple terms here.  If you dont enjoy the bugs, return the game, you all have the right to return the game and get your cash back to purchase another game.  Really is that simple guys.  

Actually you cant do that in most countries and don't get me started on online purchases.

I am also quite saddened to see how personally some people seem to take perfectly valid criticism aimed at some czech corporation.

[Jack-UK 0]

Im an OFP fan, and an ArmA fan.

Dont get me wrong, these games ROCK.

But some of these bugs are simply unbelievable! I mean every game has bugs, such as occassionally you will get stuck somewhere and hard to find bugs which arent picked up in testing. But other bugs are just so blatantly obvious that in all honesty they should have been ironed out way before release. Such as CTI mode, bugs everywhere, you start the mission, you get a spawn bug, all flags come up representing your base. Dedicated server exe for demo released... CTI mode crashes the server every time. I mean come on... did you not even try loading all 3 maps before decided its time to go public? :\

Dont get me wrong i love the game, i'm going to buy it and im persuading my mates to buy it, but none of them are very interested after discovering that they encounter bugs on every map every time they play.

[Scillion 0]

I've really enjoyed the game. It's worth the price "as is" for me.

This good game can be made into a superb game by fixing the bugs. The question comes to me as such. Will BIS fix the bugs? I'm a positive person and I will believe they will.

Some say "they did this to me" and "how could they do that?"

I say "The game can only get better from here"

[Gunney 0]

To my standards this game is not unplayable. This game deff does not have nearly the amount of bugs Marine Corps!(Soldner in a terrible disguise) that game had terrible wep recoils and basically everything was terrible about that game and they are doing nothing to fix it.

Arma has nice weps imo nice vehichles and is very playable especially in mission editor(basically where i spend most of my time in ofp and arma). Im not sure what AI level some of u guys play on but the AI is very smart compared to any military sim. If you dont keep a close eye on them while engaging them u will end up with bullets in your back.

I must admit, I do feel like sort of a beta tester being forced to play Arma without the modders having their mod tools releasing their mod goodness . But being a beta tester really isnt a bad thing if they are going to fix the bugs at a later date and give modders their tools. I mean common we get to play a pretty stable game before the UK ppl .

However, I am talking from a mission editor stand point and not other aspects of the game. Single player is a serious joke, did they even try to make a good storyline? Also imo at this current stage I think multiplayer has far too many bugs and is not enjoyable. But for me I didnt buy ArmA or OFP for its multiplayer but I bought these games to run countless number of war fantasies in mission editor and right now I think ArmA is deleviring. However, I cannot wait till we get some working AI jets that bomb the freakin enemy! The choppers will engage but not the jets . Also, I will have a wet dream when an Artillery mod is work, where I can call in fire missions(basically so those cannons can use indirect fire) while im pinned down behind a rock or somewhere. I find myself many times crying out for that.

Conclusion, game is nowhere near unplayable on a mission editor viewpoint, go play Soldner if you want to see an unplayable game. Multiplayer and single player suck in my viewpoint however fixes will come. So if you bought this game to play multiplayer(lol?) I would be upset myself. So if you are reviewing this game based on the demo you haven't even got your hands on some mission editor scenarios. my .02c

[mr reality 0]

Did someone ever answer Pacos assumtion about AI driver, actually being human divers, based on their skill level actually following the roads?

AIs are perfectly capable to follow roads aslong as they are driving 'careless'(maybe even safe) and at limited speeds. AI will always be AI and might sometimes miss a waypoint and screw up when they try to correct it. But generally AIs do a decent job in careless mode.

I'll add my opinion to this problem.

I own VBS1 and have encountered similar "bugs" with the AI as you've mentioned here. I assumed it was AI path finding in urban areas but it could also be that in VBS1 the road textures were two lanes wide, We all know that the AI will not drive on opposite sides of the road so the roads could of been part of the problem. In OFP i could use one waypoint that streched maybe 3Kms and if it was set on safe the vehicle would get there. In VBS1 for the same distance i would have to use one waypoint for every junction, sometimes two, as the vehicle would try to cut the corner. I'm not like minded as the game developers are so i can't say what the problem is, but my assumption is that if VBS1 works in multiplayer that's good enough for them. We all know ArmA is very similar to VBS1 so maybe some of the coding was just ported over.

I've not seen the complexity that the campaign offers in missions so i can't judge on AI behaviour, but what i've seen in the demo leaves me thinking the AI is just as stupid as flashpoint. Two examples;

1) squad member getting stuck in urban areas,

2) squad members being fired on and not moving,

This reminds me of an early piece of info we recieved which said something on these lines "In the campaign you can keep back and let your squads AI do the job for you." Somehow i highly doubt this as even on the coop demo (just me and 7 AI) my whole squad gets wasted within 10 minutes. They are set on a search and destroy waypoint and they just go straight towards the town, no flanking no crawling, just straight to there deaths.

I'm glad my countries release date is set for february, as by then we should be on version 1.6. Joking aside i do hope the two months will have been spent fixing bugs, as i'm also one who believes this games potential can be unlimited. I don't want to find the exact same problems the early releases have had. Mainly because i don't want to wait four years for the game to run as it should, like it was with flashpoint. With some of the implementations the devs have added to ArmA to attract a more wider consumer target, these casual gamers will be the ones who will be turned off if the game needs 5 or 6 patches to get it running.

I'm not a BIS fanboy even though fashpoint IMHO was and is the best game i've ever played. I will give them time to sort out this mess, and it will be considerably more than the two months before my release date.

Happy new year to you all.......

[WhiskeyBullets 0]

Just my opinion that the biggest glaring issues that is causing most user headaches with system problems and just not being able to run Armed Assault is the following.

The overall size of the island and thats its being streamed threw your hard drive is what the overall major issue is.

I know most OFP fans were happy with the official island sizes and that they were loaded all at once into your systems memory leading to better overall system performance. I like most here were looking for more islands and more content that were oficial releases with some improvements in graphics.

My experience with Armed Assault is that you have to get the idea that it is ofp out of your heads and that OFP never came out.

What would alot of the forum members be saying then if you just played Armed Assault today. Yah theres bugs but All Games are buggy at first but what i stated above is what cripled Armed Assault and if they dont find some whay to fix it its doomed.

I for one can not think of another game that does this because of the performance hit it does to a user computer but maybe im wrong. lol maybe

[mr reality 0]

My experience with Armed Assault is that you have to get the idea that it is ofp out of your heads and that OFP never came out.

What would alot of the forum members be saying then if you just played Armed Assault today. Yah theres bugs but All Games are buggy at first but what i stated above is what cripled Armed Assault and if they dont find some whay to fix it its doomed.

When i think about what you wrote i will be honest and say i wouldn't even consider buying ArmA. But Flashpoint does excist and we know it turned out pretty dam good.

My only complaint would be about the type of bugs that are present in ArmA that should never have been. These bugs were fixed in flashpoint and to get them in ArmA is woefull IMHO. It's like BIS have tried to reinvent the wheel when they already had one working pretty much perfectly. Updated graphics, engine optimizations and a few teaks is all ArmA needed but if that's all Arma is then something went wrong somewhere and screwed up more things than it fixed. I will admit that this "it will turn out fine in time" line is beginning to sound tedious as the majority of reported bugs should never have been there in the first place. But all that said i'm staying for the ride, whatever that may turn up is anybodys guess...

[Paco454 0]

Quote[/b] ]The hype before this game was released went back years in advance. BIS spent years, it appears, making the game. Plenty of time to do it’s work. One would think after years of development

As I mentioned in my second post I stand corrected on this point.

Thankyou to all who have responded.

PACO454

[Goodspeed 0]

Totaly agree with Paco454.

Waiting for U.S. version. I'm sure they will not dare to release this game in U.S. with that terrible condition as it was published in Germany and Czechoslovakia.

BIS showed their disrespect for people in Germany and Czechoslovakia by releasing such a buggy game.

Over.

[olemissrebel 0]

Well, they made a lot of money off of it, which is essentially the reason they are in business...

[DrBobcat 0]

BIS showed their disrespect for people in Germany and Czechoslovakia by releasing such a buggy game.

Correction: Morphicon and Cenega showed their disrespect for people in Germany and Czechoslovakia by forcing the release of a buggy game.

While BIS is responsible for the programming, the game simply wasn't complete and couldn't have ever been completed within Morphicon/Cenega's time limits. If you want to blame someone, I recommend you point the finger at them...

- dRb

[Goodspeed 0]

BIS showed their disrespect for people in Germany and Czechoslovakia by releasing such a buggy game.

Correction: Morphicon and Cenega showed their disrespect for people in Germany and Czechoslovakia by forcing the release of a buggy game.

While BIS is responsible for the programming, the game simply wasn't complete and couldn't have ever been completed within Morphicon/Cenega's time limits. If you want to blame someone, I recommend you point the finger at them...

- dRb

I'm not going to blame developers or publishers. I've just established a fact - releasing game with million bugs is just a demonstration of disrespect.

I believe BIS was able to wait and finish the game. This is not a problem to find a good publisher these days if you have strong product. I know what I'm talking about because I'm familiar with this business. It's all about money... As allways.

It's kind of buy a car without engine. Everything looks perfect at first sight but if you look deeper... I bought Russian version yesterday. This is simply terrible.

[olemissrebel 0]

Roger that, let's just hope in 5 years it will be up to par with our original expectations. *yawn*

[Dallas 9]

Well that's software for ya.

[Spetsnaz Zenya 0]

I may not have been a member here for very long and I don't have the real version of Arma...but in reading SEVERAL posts about all the bugs in this game greatly discourages me...and I'm sure many people who are waiting to buy this game.

I heard about this game a couple of years ago..and was looking really forward to playing it. but now I'm not so sure.

I mean of course there is hope that the game will be fixed substantially over time...but I agree with several other people. If they have been working on this for so many years how could these bugs have been missed? I mean a few bugs here and there is fine. But this many bugs is just crazy. =|

all these patches that they will *or hopefully* will be coming out to fix all these bugs are *I think anyway* going to be huge, when these problems could have been and should have been fixed while beta testing it.

I'm not too knowledgable on how making a computer game works or anything. but I just thought I'd put in my 2 cents.

I still have a bit of faith that it will all be fixed over time...and I hope that BI isn't just going to abandon they're customers by abandoning them as some other companies do.

I haven't been a member here for long but I can already tell they have a die hard fan base and it wouldn't be all that good of a move to just go 'ah well looks like your out of luck for buying this game'

but before this gets too long I was just thinking that maybe the developers or someone would make some sort of statement on the current situation...or work with the community to see what needs to be fixed people would stop making posts like this or something. Like a talk between the buyers of the game and the developers or something. I'm not sure like I said this is all fairly new to me.

I'm not trying to offend anyone at all...this game still has a chance, if the right people are willing to make it happen. but then again I don't have the FULL game yet...so if I have offened anyone I am sorry.

[TheReddog 0]

I must say I agree with the original poster, so far for me ArmA has been far below what I expected it to be.

Sure it looks nice but the settings are inflexible, the sound is terrible and the AI is really no better than OFP, actually I'd say it's worse from the standpoint of knowing where you are and drilling you through dense vegetation or pitch black night from great distance.

On top of all this you have the enumerable bugs and a single player campaign that I would not even bother to rate against the campaign from OFP, it is just THAT bad.

Right now frankly I am sorry I laid down money on it and that's what it really comes down to in the end, customer satisfaction...

Also to all the people toting the "stop your bitching line", you should shut the hell up and realise that when people lay good money down on a game they expect to get something better than this. When you get a bug riddled BETA version like this you have the goddamned right to complain about it.

[Heatseeker 0]

I think the a.i. is pretty good, the demo mission is a coop so its supposed to be hard, friendly forces are meant to be real players afterall .

Go in the dificulty options and customise it, i increased blufor a.i. skill to max and decreased opfor a.i. to minimum, then stayed behind the M24 scope and watched the show while i sent them to take the town in combat mode, leap frogging and movement inside the town is good, in lowest skill level they wouldnt even use the M136 on the BRDM's... the new formations are pretty cool for mout, i just miss some of the old comands.

By decreasing the opfor a.i. skill they became much less acurate, less agressive and unlikely to flank but still quite dangerous. One thing though, you might have to relaunch the demo for these dificulty changes to take effect.

VBS1 is just like OPF with some adjustments, Arma has plenty of bugs and needs work but its a great technical step forward. You guys are just overlooking the new stuff and its possibilities. I too have mixed feelings because of the bugs and some design decisions but the game had to came out early, im sure by the time 505 releases it will be further patched and improved upon.

This is a nice list:

[*] Better a.i. (slightly).

[*] Better graphics and animation.

[*] Larger and more detailed environments.

[*] Better Environmental effects (rain, lighting, wind, etc).

[*] 3D ironsights.

[*] Multiple gun mounts per vehicle (addon makers dream).

[*] Better colision detection.

[*] Building destruction.

[*] Ability to swim.

[*] Environmental life.

[*] New vehicle classes! (wheeled APC, rocket mount jeep).

[*] More units per map, less lag.

Im not saying that Arma shouldnt or couldnt be better but they surpassed some of my expectations in a relativelly short development period without the financial support of a big, nazi label!

I think the future of this promissing game and comunity looks bright and its everyones best interest to support the game and not trash it, that doesnt help anyone here.

[Jack-UK 0]

Ok ive read some of the latter posts and i do not think its accurate to say anyone is being "disrespectful" to customers for releasing the game with bugs.

Bugs happen, i agree, these bugs are very numerous and in all fairness should have been fixed before release. But it is not disrespectful, we wanted the game, we got the game, but with bugs.

BIS are doing things on their own thanks to Crapmasters. BIS were and still are a small company in a secluded part of the world, to create a game on this scale is quite amazing. I'm relying on their patches which are always brilliant and regular to make the game complete. But my only worry is that you are going to turn away customers until you get rid of these current major bugs. The OF fans will buy this game, cause we love it, but trying to increase the fan base is not going to work at the moment im afraid

I still think the AI are weak though, they dont seem to be aware of anything going on, until they get shot, and even then sometimes they dont respond. I mean AIs just lay down in the middle of large open areas with no cover while they should be aware that they are being attacked. I think they've improved since OFP, but i was quite dissapointed to see it with some of the main problems that were in OFP.

But this is a great game, keep up the good work BIS =)