Reloading

[SHWiiNG 0]

ok so i still havent seem any footage refering to the reloading in ARMA, like animations, weapon animations etc..

so any chance of any of you ARMA owners making a small video, or some images.

[Col. Faulkner 0]

I don't know how to post videos, but the reloading goes as

follows (don't be too disappointed when I tell you):

Your weapon goes dry, a cute little "Magazine" icon appears

in the middle of your screen, you hit your "reload" key, the

little guy actually removes the mag with his hand (his rifle

is then in his right hand without the mag, [so far so good,

but then it starts to go bad] then he waves his hand in the

vicinity of his rifle's receiver at which time a new

mag "magically" pops onto the rifle, he then makes a

spastic attempt at hitting the bolt release on his M16.

Exactly the same "reload anim" is used for all shoulder

weapons.  

There are no "weapon animations" (if I understand that

correctly) in evidence anywhere.

edit: Not all too impressive when you compare the reloading

anims in something like "Rainbow Six 3" for PC from years ago

(the Rainbow soldiers could even cock their weapons

correctly! - or at least move their hands in the right way)

edit2: The pistols are reloaded with hand waving and

gesticulations - a different reload anim from all the rest

of the shoulder weapons. None of the pistols have animated

slides or anything like that - and the case ejection is

somewhat "lethargic" too - they "plop" out rather than

"whizz" out (and down the back of your neck for the M9

usually    ). I would opine that the 1st person

sights view for the M9 makes it look like a huge cannon,

the Makarov looks better IMHO.

As regards the ATk weapons; they are modelled as hollow

tubes now, so when the little guy lets fly you can look (if

that turns you on) right through the launch tube. To reload

it he takes it across his knee and sort of rubs the muzzle -

the same anim as in old OFP. They carry the RPG launcher

unloaded and when you go to use the RPG, a grenade

magically pops into the muzzle as he takes it onto his

shoulder. Some of the OFP addon RPGs worked in the

same way (it looks rather weird).

Edit3: Here you are, a quick screenshot (low/medium gfx

settings) showing that at least he gets the empty mag

off his rifle - that's unfortunately about as good as it

gets - at least his finger is indexed outside the trigger

guard!

Same goes for the Minimi; he takes the box off (and it then

pops out of existence - he doesn't lift the top cover on the

gun or cock it or anything - and the reload anim is otherwise

the same as the one for the Armalite):

Edit4:

Here's the cutesy icon that pops up when your weapon is

dry. (I'll be disabling that just as soon as I work out how -

how can you ever get a dead-man's-click if a sweet

little piccy pops up to tell you when to reload!?)

And finally, after all this, I'm sure I don't need to tell you that

the users of the M24 bolt-action rifle do not in fact operate

the rifle bolt, or make gestures that even slightly resemble

how this rifle is loaded in real life (there isn't even a sound

that plays for the bolt opening and closing! ) to all intents

and purposes it is self-loading. Oh, and it ejects a case out

to the left hand side as you fire  

[SHWiiNG 0]

Oh thank you very much lol we need moer in depth posts like this

[SHWiiNG 0]

sorry for the double post, is this problem (which i and im sure many of the BIS community are sick off) fixable, eg properly animated reloading etc. i mean look at *shudder* Americas Army, the graphics are worse than ARMA and even that have comprehendive reload anime..

Why wasent this brushed up?

[Sniperwolf572 758]

sorry for the double post, is this problem (which i and im sure many of the BIS community are sick off) fixable, eg properly animated reloading etc. i mean look at *shudder* Americas Army, the graphics are worse than ARMA and even that have comprehendive reload anime..

Why wasent this brushed up?

It's because you actually view it only in first person. Look down in AA, no legs, no body, no nothing, just your hands and the weapon. To explain in some detail:

Things in Unreal Engine (AA uses UE) are done differently, because, for everything you see in first person, has it's own set of animations that are different from third person animations. And every weapon needs those animations. In most FPS games, you see magazine being pulled and everything fancy in first person, but when you look at them from third person, you either see OFP style reload, or ArmA style reload.

Why? Because developers do not need to add those things since they are normally not noticeable during normal or fast paced gameplay they have.

Why doesn't ArmA have this? ArmA uses only one set of animations, and both are used for first and third person view, so what you see in first person, it correctly translates to third person. This is probably a design decision to make addon making easier and less overall work for BIS. This also makes it easier to implement full body view in first person.

You can't actually blame BIS, it's not like soldiers magically stroke the magazine and you get more ammo like in OFP. A step forward I say.

[funnyguy1 0]

again eye candy vs realism thing to me much more important things need to be done first imho...

[Mr Sarkey 0]

If you still need it I'll pop up a couple video's soon.

[SHWiiNG 0]

thanks a couple of vids would be nice, but c'mon please dont tell me it doesnt bother you, i certainly bothers me. anyone else?

[desertfox 2]

I couldn't care less about animation detail when reloading.

If I made a list with 100 things which I'd like to see in the upcoming patches - it would hardly be on it.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Sniperwolf572's got it completely correct, the OFP/ArmA engine is very unique and the reason that BIS hasn't included things that most other FPS games have is the same reason that makes OFP/ArmA so much more realistic and loved by the fans. The reason is that BIS based the engine off of real world physics and not just a bunch of pseudo representations of it, sacrificing the amount of resources committed to these things that other games can get away with for realism. Some of the people on these forums have made it clear that they lack this understanding, saying things such as expecting ArmA's graphics to be better because they're comparing it to other games which are beginning to opt for better graphics over good gameplay. It's not right to compare ArmA to standards set by other games because it is different, and it sets its own standards.

While it would be a treat to have more flexibility with reloading and weapon animations, it's still only a treat. Watching your character reload is not a big priority in this game, and as long as it's believable that's good enough. Personally, I'm happy with it. BIS left us with a lot of capability for modding most of this stuff in as best we can, and just be looking at some of the new features on the biki I'm satisfied with what's there. Just give it time and you'll see ArmA's true potential.

[Dynamax 0]

good god people.. next we are going to have a 50 page thread on how the soldiers dont have teeth modeled, or what ever else they find to complain about.

all this b***hing about littel un-important little details is enough to drive a guy mad. i feel real bad for the BIS guys and i hope only a few of them have to read through all these bs posts.. they are going to run out of prozac over there...

[Col. Faulkner 0]

Then why did BIS change the anims at all if they only went

halfway? Right now it looks stupider than no reload anim at

all!

And all this BS about OFP/ArmA being "realistic" is getting on

my tits too. The gameplay most of the time is infuriatingly

unrealistic. "Ultimate Combat Simulation" my arse!

[pajama 0]

You really shouldn't be focus on the reloading process but rather your target and situation.

Sure, BIS could probably go all out and animate every reload procedure for every weapon in ArmA but would that be time well spent?

I rather have them spend time on perfecting mocap kung-fu animations.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

Then why did BIS change the anims at all if they only went

halfway? Right now it looks stupider than no reload anim at

all!

And all this BS about OFP/ArmA being "realistic" is getting on

my tits too. The gameplay most of the time is infuriatingly

unrealistic. "Ultimate Combat Simulation" my arse!

You can remove the reloading animation if it bothers you. Very easy. But as I said, go look at CS, or AA from third person, and I'm 98% sure that you won't see the characters unzipping pouches and whatnot just to hold a magazine and put it it. You might see an animation for it, but the actual magazine won't be in their hands and reload will be either ArmA or OFP way.

First person is a different story, because in other games you can hide that stuff from the player, because his weapon will always remain on screen and there is no way for the player to force the view down while weapon stays pointing forward. If you could do that, you would see that character just lowers a magazine for a second and pops it back in.

In many FPS games it's all about hiding stuff from the player, but in ArmA and OFP you have complete control over all aspects of the body.

Also, one other thing that developers do in modern FPS games, is remove the faces from the other side of the weapon, the one not visible to players, to save up on polys, but that's impossible in ArmA, since you can, even in first person, view the gun from all sides.

Also, It's too late for any bitching now, because what's done, it's done, and would need a full redo of the animation system, and then, you get the reload correctly shown in first person, but you loose the floating crosshair, full body view, and sync of the first and third person animations.

Reload animation is not what classifies ArmA as realistic, it's the terrain, possibilities, engagement ranges, all around vehicle simulation and what else not.

If you own BF2 or SWAT4, here is a simple test for you to do. Fire up the game with your buddy, stand in front of him and aim your weapon in his forehead, then ask the buddy where is your weapon pointing on his screen. Rest assure, he won't say forehead unless you bribe him.

On another point from your, you say they only went "halfway". Complete BS, to tell you the truth, they didn't even go half way, probably did modelspecial trick (you know what I'm talking about, right?) or they just made the mag selection disappear during the reload anim.

I might make a video or something showing how the animations are done in "realistic-reload-simulators".

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Sniperwolf572's really 100% on-target today, I couldn't have said it better myself. Some of you guys need to learn that developing games isn't as easy as just willing the program to do something, there are many challenges the devs face that they must respond to with a practical solution. BIS has already gone where no other developers have, and so implementing more complex reload procedures is still another challenge with no easy solution. If you really care about it, you should stop accusing BIS of not succeding and try your own luck at creating a new method of animating weapons and characters without drastically changing the engine and taking away the immersion that Sniperwolf572 talked about.

[Millenium7 0]

this is not an eye candy vs realism topic this is both rolled in to 1. You can reload an M249 in about 1 second wheres the realism in that? this weapon should take 5+ seconds to reload. Same goes for the M24

Once the mods come in it doesn't REALLY matter but as always if its included in the original game so much the better. I just hope we can have seperate reload anims for weapons now

@kylesarnik: There is no reason at all ArmA can't have realistic animations, animating the weapon may be different but all you need is an animation for each weapon doesn't matter how simple or advanced it is. I can understand BIS not being able to make so many animations but if they only allow 1 animation for all i'm gonna be pissed unnecessary limitation