Petition for Friendly-Fire Options

[kronzky 5]

I hope I will not get flamed to death for bringing up the blasphemy of having a friendly-fire option in the MP-game, but I think it's worth it...

We need an option to penalize or disable team killing.

There - I said it...

I know, I know. The game is supposed to be realistic, and in reality people will die when you shoot them.

Fine.

But - in reality there will also be investigations into every friendly-fire incident. And if you are found out to be the shooter, you can expect some serious consequences. Not so in ArmA.

Also, whether you classify ArmA as a game or as a simulation doesn't really matter - for both cases there would be a good reason to implement friendly-fire options.

If you call it a game, well, that's easy. You play games to have fun. And it's plainly no fun being killed by your teammates...

If you call it a simulation, well, every simulation exists in order to teach you something. A "simulation" always has a purpose to it. What ArmA "teaches" you right now is that it doesn't matter if you kill team members. There are no penalties, direct or indirect, for behavior like that.

With OFP the argument sometimes was that killing team members would lessen your chances of finishing the mission, but now, with JIP even that argument doesn't really count anymore, since dead members are often replaced right away by new joiners.

It's actually not so bad yet, with only the fanatics playing, but once the "great unwashed masses" will join, playing public servers will be nearly impossible.

Sure, I could join clan games, but the thing is, I *like* public games. Gameplay is much more unpredictable and probably more realistic than in those well-drilled elite teams in clan games. People on public servers run around like headless chickens, clueless most of the time, getting killed by the truckload, and in general it's one big mess - and I would imagine that that's a more realistic representation of what would happen in real life. And, of course, you also have those rare moments of intuitive teamwork - where all of a sudden everything falls together, and everybody works as a team, without anybody ever saying a word. Another thing that just doesn't happen in clan games...

Unfortunately, all that can easily be destroyed by one or two idiots who, either out of ignorance or malice, end up killing their own team-members.

So - back to my point:

We need some options for friendly-fire incidents.

I imagine four different settings:

• unprotected (as it is now - no repercussions for shooter)

• protected (even if you fire at a team member, there will be no damage to him)

• equal damage (if you fire at a team member, you will afterwards have the same kind of damage/injury as your victim)

• punitive damage (only the shooter will receive the kind of damage/injury the victim would've received)

With a system like this any friendly-fire incident could be immediately penalized, even gradually, depending on the damage the shooter would've inflicted on his victim.

Accidental team-killers would learn their lesson very quickly, that it doesn't pay to "shoot first, ask later", and the ones that do it on purpose would soon switch to another game, with easier targets.

Yes, the solution is not "realistic", but neither is it to be able to kill team-members without penalty, and it seems to me that this setup would be the lesser evil.

Also, as far as having a realistic implementation of the self-injury effect, the easiest would probably to just have the shooter's gun blow up upon discharge. That would make it look reasonable to an observer, and the fact that his gun is now unusable would also serve as a further penalty.

[super64 0]

Those are good, valid points. There should be some type of consequence for every FF action. Even in America's Army, if you shoot your teamates more than once you'll find yourself in a jail cell. I like your FF options, those would be good server-side powers to have for an admin.

For the most part, people want to join an ArmA server and play the game as its meant to be played. But, you always get that one tool who joins a game and thinks its hilarious to blast everyone around him immediatly at spawn.

[CanisDEK 1]

I want a squad of elite storm troopers to spawn and chase the team killer and bring him to justice.

[mattxr 9]

why do u need all that crup?

Just dont shoot your team mates simple as, if someone is team killing kick them. Then the Lesson is learnt for everyone else on the server if you TK you will BE Kicked!.

u dont need loadsa pants options.

this is not BF or call of duty.

[deanosbeano 0]

We need an option to penalize or disable team killing.

can you disableuserinput individually in arma ?

if ya can use the addrating to decide weather ya gonna activate it on the individual ?

not a well thought reply but i am gonna watch a film now .

[Llauma 0]

If you have problems with a team-killer then ban him from the server.. That's a pretty suitable and serious punishment. Also try to be a little more selective when you enter a server, preferably a passworded one.

People who can't behave can destroy a game in many ways even if TK:ing is disabled. They might take the only helo and go Rambo etc. You can't prevent such things. The only way to get a good game is to enter a clean server.

[Stealth3 0]

why do u need all that crup?

Just dont shoot your team mates simple as, if someone is team killing kick them. Then the Lesson is learnt for everyone else on the server if you TK you will BE Kicked!.

u dont need loadsa pants options.

this is not BF or call of duty.

Thats difficult in dedicated servers with no admins around, don't you think?

[kronzky 5]

Banning works if you have an admin that sees the FF message the second it pops up (before scrolling away), and who then has time to go into the admin menu and ban someone. (Both not very likely on public servers.)

And sure, you don't have that problem on private servers. But I'm looking for a solution to make *public* servers enjoyable for as many people as possible.

[Sentralia 0]

Maybe something like in Red Orchestra. Where after you kill x amount of people, the person is kicked automatically. If it's a TK caused by explosion it will be less drastic then if you shot them. The option to kick or to ban after this kill limit is reached can be set by the admin. That way a admin doesn't have to be there, and you still have the realism of Friendly fire.

[desertfox 2]

I don't think there's a need for something like a friendly fire option.

I've been playing OFP for years and years without one. Sure TKers are annoying, but people who do that repeatedly will get listed on a dozen ban lists pretty quickly.

Neither of the suggested options suits me well I have to admit.

Would transform ArmA into something similar to counterstrike.

*EDIT* On a second thought the "Make public servers more enjoyable" sounds reasonable. Would only make sense though if there was an auto-ban feature based upon the Player ID. Otherwise the TKer will get kicked and just come back with a different nick.

[Kosojob 0]

against

[Average Joe 0]

My bros been shot at mid air with at4's...from guys on his own team. WELCOME NEW COMMUNITY! [sarcasm]

[Sentralia 0]

Any game that has beautiful graphics, crosshairs, and third person will attract the idiots. Hopefully, they will find out they can't bunny hop and never play again. But their will always be "griefers" that try to ruin the game for everyone.

[twisted 127]

ArmA is going to attract idiots that TK.

But not all may be idiots on purpose. I remember when i first tried OFP online. I found it very hard to tell friend from foe (and sometimes shot friendlies by mistake) so I made a point to request friendly tags on. I noticed many other people doing the same as wel..

However in ArmA the visual difference between the different sides is quite easy to see so that'll be less of a factor. but it might help turning friendly tags on for a while at first.

[VerySolidSnake 0]

This is what I think should happen with TK'ing

-Bullets you fire, from any gun or tank turrents or whatever, cannot kill teammates

-Cannon blast, gernades, bombs, missles, CAN kill teammates (that way you can't have guys chilling out in the middle of a bombing run untouched)

I think it is a great idea to have the option of turning TK'ing on and off, while in private servers it won't be necessary, public servers are going to get out of control.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Auto TK punish is a bad idea, and so is disabling FF (which can break missions). Accidents happen sometimes, and sometimes soldiers go renegade. Hey, if anything it's just another challenge.

[max power 21]

I think that if someone TK's 3 or so times that he should be auto-kicked, and if he's kicked 3 or so times, he should be auto-banned. There's your investigation right there. Maybe after the first 3, you only have to kill 1 to get kicked for the rest of the day. Get banned 3 times and it's permanent, and you'd have to speak to an administrator...

[Average Joe 0]

Agree with Kyle, auto TK punish can definately push people further because after the first few they tend not to give a damn argo the renegades. A auto Kick? Maybe

[Col. Faulkner 0]

Forgive my ignorance but is there a conceptual difference

between a TK ("Team Kill"?) and an "honest" blue-on-blue?

I've popped one or two friendlies by mistake on the virtual

battlefield myself - fortunes of war and all that...

[evilnate 0]

It should be possible for mission creators to impliment TK punishments. I know it's possible to punish people who kill civilian NPCs in coop missions.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

IMO ArmA already has a TK punish system, if you go renegade you'll be engaged by friendlies.

[yarex 0]

I think that the best system would be to allow team leader to "highlight" any person on the map as ownteamkiller, and then this person would became part of "third" team that is against all.

So infact would stay ingame and could continue, but would be "kicked" from the original team - and therefore became enemy for all sides.

Only commander would have that decision.

Then still reality would be achieved but team killer would be still punished.

[max power 21]

Let's not get too complicated. If there's respawn - group, then a tker can easily whipe out your whole squad either by capping them or being killed by them. I like my 2 tk buffer, then kick, then kick, then ban. You can accidently shoot a some friendlies, no big deal, but if you come back and continue to be careless, and you've already killed 5 friendlies on 4 or more seperate occasions, you're probably messing with someone else's game.

[Kosojob 0]

Quote[/b] ]You can accidently shoot a some friendlies, no big deal

sure it's not a big deal when you shoot someone, but when you'll get shot, i am sure you will be disapointed a little, nah?

if you want some tk punish then team killer should be placed in jail, it's a war simulator after all, or team killer should be dismissed from playing for mounth. He killed a person, one of his mates, his friends, maybe relatives, now this is a really BIG deal, and he will have plenty of time to think about his mistake so he will not repeat it.

[5133p39 12]

there is no need for any options, it is already possible to deal with TKs with the help of little scripting, or you can also allways ban people from your server, so it's not a big deal.

Somebody is killing his teammates on purpose? ban him, end of story.