Saudia Arabia Ask US To Reduce Force

[MrLaggy 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @ Jan. 29 2002,15:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Technology is developing at an exponential phase. Currently determination can still beat technology (determined people brought down the WTC), but how long will that last? How long an invidual can still extract his revenge against the consensus? How soon dissidence becomes impossible?<span id='postcolor'>

And as technology develops, it becomes easier for an individual or small group to cause massive damage to an adversary: just look at the hundreds of billions of dollars of damage caused to America by a few people with hijacked airliners. Today, an individual can drive a van into DC with an H-bomb in the back and destroy most of the city... how can a government survive against technology like that in the hands of pissed-off individuals?

[Oligo 1]

Endless circle, you're saying? It might be so. But what IS going to happen is that the governments in their crusade to defend themselves are going to trample on the non-pissed off, non-troublemaker individuals. You know, better indoctrination, propaganda and brainwashing to prevent dissent ever from sprouting. This is a shame, because dissent is the driving force of human development. If nobody is unhappy, nobody wants to change anything and thus no more development.

[MrLaggy 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @ Jan. 29 2002,15:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Endless circle, you're saying? It might be so. But what IS going to happen is that the governments in their crusade to defend themselves are going to trample on the non-pissed off, non-troublemaker individuals.<span id='postcolor'>

And every one of those people will react in some way, even if it's something as simple as taking a holiday near home rather than flying with all the stupid new security regulations; that alone is having a major impact on the US economy.

Not only does every new law create new criminals, piss off more people and turn them against the government, but, more directly, America has become rich because it has had a relatively free, open economy: every new restriction that's imposed pushes business away and makes America poorer. And a country with exploding welfare costs and a declining economy cannot afford a porked-up defence budget, or vast billions for a police-state technologies.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> You know, better indoctrination, propaganda and brainwashing to prevent dissent ever from sprouting.<span id='postcolor'>

So when are they going to close down the Internet? I don't know about you, but I haven't watched TV propaganda or read newspaper propaganda for years. The dumbed-down masses may still do so, but their opinion has never mattered anyway.

It's worth remembering that, by definition, the decline of an empire always begins when it's at its strongest: I say the America empire is at that point today, and from here the only way is down.

[Oligo 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So when are they going to close down the Internet? I don't know about you, but I haven't watched TV propaganda or read newspaper propaganda for years. The dumbed-down masses may still do so, but their opinion has never mattered anyway.

<span id='postcolor'>

They are constantly talking about regulating the Internet. You know, the terrorists might use it to plan evil stuff. And what comes to the dumbed-down masses, they are the ones cating the votes in elections. The people with power are picked by the dumbasses.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It's worth remembering that, by definition, the decline of an empire always begins when it's at its strongest: I say the America empire is at that point today, and from here the only way is down.<span id='postcolor'>

You're probably right.

You know, it's nice to have a nice conversation for a change.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

oligo, nice remarks there, i esp. liked the one about americans being aliens or something!

where r u from mate? oligo means 'little' in greek....

and shame about the x-33

[Longinius 1]

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

Clarkes Third Law, from Profiles of the Future (1962)

Something to think about.

[Oligo 1]

I didn't mean that the americans are literally aliens, just that they might be, because their thought-set differs so much from that of europeans. Same holds true for the chinese for example. They have just totally different minds.

Anyway, I'm from Finland, mate. Oligo means something like 'few'. It has also come to mean a DNA-strand or peptide-strand of only a few units long in biotechnology slang. The latter is what my nick is referring to.

And about the X-33, well, that just happened to be the coolest piece of technology in development at the moment (Man, single stage to orbit!) and they went and frigging took it apart. Reminds me of the Avro Arrow case in Canada. First you lovingly put something brilliant together and then you slaughter it. I just love politicians...

[EveronVetsAgainstTheWar 0]

My opinion: (I'm American)

We have a force there which we think is what we need. They want us out. We say no. Why? Because we can. That part of the world desperatley needs western influence.

But about Germany or Japan:

I was in Germany 2 yrs because my Stepdad worked at Rhein-Main Airbase (Gateway to Europe) Half of it belongs to the Germans as a commercial airport. Durring my 2 years, I saw the base become smaller and smaller. I lived at the American Consulate Housing in Frankfurt a.M. which used to be right across the Strasse from an Army Base (Can't remember which one off hand). But that base closed down. We are slowly leaving from Germany and these things take time.

About Pilot killing Italians:

Ooops. What a jerk. Should have been punished. Now I think we are "guests" in Italy, but our miltary personel are serperate from Italian citizens, so he should have been punished by our military. He was found not guilty. Shame. Our legal system is really fucked.

About some guy telling Wobble to vote for someone who wants to pull out of the middle east all together:

Do you really think any party will ever nominate someone as radical as that? Our 2 party really sucks if you are a radical.

[Longinius 1]

"We have a force there which we think is what we need. They want us out. We say no. Why? Because we can. That part of the world desperatley needs western influence."

This gives anyone a reason to occupy any territory if they can. And this means America was wrong in attacking Iraq. Iraq could attack Kuwait, so they did. They probably thought that part of the world desperatly needed Iraqi influence.

Just like so many other American arguements, that does not hold up. The American recent war on terrorism resulted in increased hostilities in Israel and India. They use the same arguements and by that definition they can pretty much do whatever they want. If America is gonna throw their weight around they might aswell do it good and take over the entire fucking world. That way I wouldn't have to bitch about their double standard atleast...and I could sue starbucks for 4 million USD after I burn my hand on their coffee machine...

[Oligo 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (residuum @ Jan. 30 2002,08:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">We have a force there which we think is what we need. They want us out. We say no. Why? Because we can. That part of the world desperatley needs western influence.

<span id='postcolor'>

They ask you to pull out and you do not, you become an occupying force, since it is their country and so it is theirs to say what goes. It is their country, since your country has recognized the government and sovereignty of Saudi Arabia. If you want people to think that your country represents something benevolent, I don't think you should go occupying other countries.

They might just give you economic sanctions in the U.N.

[Pete 1]

They might just give you economic sanctions in the U.N.

with the risk of sounding anti-american again...i would like to see that day come, we have set international rules and laws for a reason....that is for all nations to obey.

and when we let the biggest kid break the rules and punish the little kids when they try to do the same, then those rules and laws become very unfair and useless.

i hope that day comes soon, and i hope it will not evolve into anything bigger than a slap on usa's hands....it would be for the better for the world.

as for "mid east needing american influence"...biggest pile of bs i heard, name one conflict there that usa was not influenced in .....usa has not tried to stop one single war in the mid east,. only to provoke or prolong wars.

they need american influence just as much as we need a 20 km rock from outer space crashing into the earth....

[christophercles 0]

I reckon, for america to stop the start of a decline, they need-

A. A war, so as to take over new territory or

B. A new technology so as to allow advanced space travel.

Because, as we all know, the civilization that doesnt grow, dies.

[Oligo 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Pete @ Jan. 30 2002,10:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">They might just give you economic sanctions in the U.N.

with the risk of sounding anti-american again...i would like to see that day come, we have set international rules and laws for a reason....that is for all nations to obey.

<span id='postcolor'>

That day will never come as long as U.S. has a veto right in the U.N.. It is funny that they (or the other countries) have that kind of right, because it implies that some countries are better than others.

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And when we let the biggest kid break the rules and punish the little kids when they try to do the same, then those rules and laws become very unfair and useless.

<span id='postcolor'>

The one reason I despise U.S. so much is that they can never say it straight to your face. They ramble on and on about their good intentions, how they are the defenders of liberty. Why don't they just say: "We do this meddling crap because we are selfish like everybody else and since we have the biggest guns, we can just impose our every whim upon you as we please." I can understand the powerful doing what they please because they can, but I cannot listen to the crap they pour out to justify it without getting pissed.

[MrLaggy 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @ Jan. 30 2002,10:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">That day will never come as long as U.S. has a veto right in the U.N.. It is funny that they (or the other countries) have that kind of right, because it implies that some countries are better than others.<span id='postcolor'>

The UN is an American puppet, just like NATO. While the UN bureaucrats sometimes get ideas above their station and pretend that they're in control, like when they recently kicked the American delegates off some human rights commision, without America the UN would be utterly irrelevant; and even today it's little but a social club for sad old socialists dreaming of world government, which America uses any time it wants to justify its interference in other countries.

[Oligo 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The UN is an American puppet, just like NATO. While the UN bureaucrats sometimes get ideas above their station and pretend that they're in control, like when they recently kicked the American delegates off some human rights commision, without America the UN would be utterly irrelevant; and even today it's little but a social club for sad old socialists dreaming of world government, which America uses any time it wants to justify its interference in other countries.<span id='postcolor'>

Amen. Thank you for formulating into sentences what I was trying to say with my sarcasm. I agree to the fullest.