Balschoiw 0 Posted October 25, 2006 I guess it´s easy to bash someone who has been into F1 for such a long time that he inevitably had to run into on-track trouble. Fact is that he is a very ambitious and pushing driver and he has won more titles than any other F1 driver afaik. If he would have taken the rude approach every time he raced he wouldn´t have been that sucessfull and a longterm winner like he is. Racing is a competative sport and he turned out to be winner more than any others did. If you´re claiming that his career was based on reckless behaviour, you do him wrong as he did work hard for his success. Else he wouldn´t have been successfull. The rumours of him toasting at Sennas death were disgusting and just a made-up of yellow press. If you like Schumacher as a person is irrelevant, as a race driver he has such a great record, that follow-ups will have a hard time coming even close to him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PainDealer 0 Posted October 25, 2006 BUZZARD @ Oct. 25 2006,03:47)]Truth is he's THE F1 driver, taking over the number one position from Fangio, winning more "mosts" of everything than any other driver before him, and is therefore the new reference. that's just because the greatest driver ever died 12 years ago in San Marino GP while he wasn't even half way through his career my thought of the F1 in general today is that the great sport has been spoiled with money, greed and favoritism. the teams are absolutely not equal in any way. for example Ferrari's got out of trouble many times when they've had illegal tweaks in their cars, just because they have the fame and bring more money to the organizers. if the drivers had equal cars with equal setting maybe then they could be compared but that hasn't been possible since 1997 - 1998 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Balschoiw 0 Posted October 25, 2006 Quote[/b] ]that's just because the greatest driver ever died 12 years ago in San Marino GP while he wasn't even half way through his career If he was the greatest driver of all times, he wouldn´t be dead. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
klavan 0 Posted October 25, 2006 for example Ferrari's got out of trouble many times when they've had illegal tweaks in their cars, just because they have the fame and bring more money to the organizers. Italy = Mafia eh? It's hard to admit we had got the best F1 car and one of the best driver in F1 history, uh? Klavan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
llauma 0 Posted October 25, 2006 Senna was a amazing driver but he doesn't match up to Schumacher who has been consistant for such a long time. Schumacher is easily the greatest driver in the history of F1 but he's also been the worst sportsman. The only thing that counted was that he won the race. How it was achived didn't matter at all. He has at several occasions endangered the lives of his combatants with insane moves on the tracks. He showed no respect for the others. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
klavan 0 Posted October 25, 2006 Schumacher is easily the greatest driver in the history of F1 but he's also been the worst sportsman. The only thing that counted was that he won the race. How it was achived didn't matter at all. He has at several occasions endangered the lives of his combatants with insane moves on the tracks. He showed no respect for the others. So every time a footbal player commits a foul he's attempting to the opponent's life? Every sport have got it's own risks, the fact Schumacher is always on the stake is because he is a well known champion. Is Schumacher the only F1 driver who attempted azardous manouvers during his career? Or simply no one care about the same manouver if attempted by a semi-unknown pilot named let's say Giorgio Pantano? Remember Zidane: was he a bad player only for the foul commited against Materazzi during the WC final? Doesn't he deserves to be remember as one of the best football player for this? Me think no: Zidane was one of the best player like Schumacher was one of the best driver. Klavan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PainDealer 0 Posted October 25, 2006 for example Ferrari's got out of trouble many times when they've had illegal tweaks in their cars, just because they have the fame and bring more money to the organizers. Italy = Mafia eh? It's hard to admit we had got the best F1 car and one of the best driver in F1 history, uh? Klavan I did not in any way refer to mafia. what I was trying to say is that lately this circus has come to the point where "F1 = Ferrari". the sport wouldn't be anything without Ferrari cos their fanbase is soooo huge. just my opinion but 75% of Schumacher's success is just because of the car that happens to be superior to others. *EDIT* @ Klavan, the difference between Schumacher and a semi-unknown driver such as Pantano is that Pantano would actually get penalized for doing it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
klavan 0 Posted October 25, 2006 I did not in any way refer to mafia. what I was trying to say is that lately this circus has come to the point where "F1 = Ferrari". the sport wouldn't be anything without Ferrari cos their fanbase is soooo huge. just my opinion but 75% of Schumacher's success is just because of the car that happens to be superior to others.*EDIT* @ Klavan, the difference between Schumacher and a semi-unknown driver such as Pantano is that Pantano would actually get penalized for doing it. I can agree with you on this: probably any other skilled driver would had win on such a car. Maybe it would be far less simple without Schumi, but anyway..... However the last two championships proved the circus can go on and grow even without Ferrari as the winner, so speculations about such a dependancy (economical or other) are just...speculations. PS Here in Italy Schumacher isn't considered a very fancy guy by the 90% of the Ferrari fanbase, but hey..... Klavan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
-ZG-BUZZARD 0 Posted October 25, 2006 that the great sport has been spoiled with money, greed and favoritism. the teams are absolutely not equal in any way. Unfortunately I guess that goes for all sports that involve a lot of money and public attention... I guess the more popular a sport guets, the less "sportsmanslike" (spelling?) it gets... Back on topic, and in reply, yeah, I liked Senna a lot too, and probably from a personality point of view, would prefer him being a reference over Fangio instead of Schumacher, but Destiny, as it seems, chose differently... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kavoven 4 Posted October 26, 2006 for example Ferrari's got out of trouble many times when they've had illegal tweaks in their cars, just because they have the fame and bring more money to the organizers. Italy = Mafia eh? It's hard to admit we had got the best F1 car and one of the best driver in F1 history, uh? Klavan I did not in any way refer to mafia. what I was trying to say is that lately this circus has come to the point where "F1 = Ferrari". the sport wouldn't be anything without Ferrari cos their fanbase is soooo huge. just my opinion but 75% of Schumacher's success is just because of the car that happens to be superior to others. *EDIT* @ Klavan, the difference between Schumacher and a semi-unknown driver such as Pantano is that Pantano would actually get penalized for doing it. First thing: Schumacher was the guy, who motivated the ingineurs and all those people building the car. If you remember right: The Ferari was a bunch of **** during the first two years, when Schumacher drove the car. It was HIM who was able to communicate with the team, so that they could improve the car. And the difference between an unkown driver and Schumacher is that Schumacher is simply BETTER. No matter how envy you are, you have to accept this as a single fact. Just take the last race and accept, that he is one of the greatest drivers ever in history of Formula 1... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Albert Schweitzer 10 Posted October 26, 2006 hehe, just wanted to add the same argument. Lets just remember what Ferari looked like before he joined. And please also look at his career, he didnt immediately start with the best car around. I see many sore loosers here and thats sad! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
klavan 0 Posted October 26, 2006 Schumacher was the guy, who motivated the ingineurs and all those people building the car. If you remember right: The Ferari was a bunch of **** during the first two years, when Schumacher drove the car.It was HIM who was able to communicate with the team, so that they could improve the car. This is recognized as an universal truth here in Italy. Ferrari never get in touch with any similar pilot before Schumi arrival: none of the drivers who came before him were so deeply involved in the car development/improvement process as he did. Our hope, as Ferrari supporters, is to see the same involvement from his successor: Kimi looks as fancy as Michael is, but he has got the same aura of professionism around him. Personally i always loved finnish drivers: they' re cold and of few words, and usually they dislikes gossip and protagonism with the media. Hakkinen was one of my favourite ever. Klavan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Supah 0 Posted October 27, 2006 Senna was a amazing driver but he doesn't match up to Schumacher who has been consistant for such a long time. .... if you honestly believe that then you so need to have a reality check. Senna was the superiour driver AND the superiour sportsman. I am not a sore loser but I can recognize un-sportsman like behaviour when I see it. Schumacher has had a string of such behaviour through out his carreer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Albert Schweitzer 10 Posted October 27, 2006 simple statistic Senna won three times the world cup and 41 victories Schumacher won it seven times and 91 victories. If you would deduct most of the questionable cases you would still see him ahead. And dont forget, for all the incidents such as the Silverstone 1994, Spa 1994, Villeneuve 1997,Coulthard 1998, Team order 2002 and Rascasse 2006 he was either punished alone or went out as the looser. So please dont be so silly to tell me he won be cheating. Thats just ridiculous and if you dont elaborate your argumentation a little better than  Quote[/b] ]check. Senna was the superiour driver AND the superiour sportsman. well then you are indeed (i dont like to say it ) a sore looser. If Schumacher was would be such a psychological demon then I am suprised to see him being such a big family man. And btw. Senna holds absolutely zero record against Schumacher. Just because he is a man of the golden old days doesnt automatically make him the biggest legend! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oneoff 0 Posted October 27, 2006 I dont think you can compare these drivers , altho there carrers overlapped a little i think it is ok to say they are from different era in terms of technology and race rules etc. it is not a valid comment about races won etc. people sometimes forget that schumacher has for the most of his carrer been the lead driver ,where as senna played second fiddle to prost and didnt allways get the best attention. it is my opinion just like fangio , senna and schumacher where the best drivers of there generation and i for one would have liked them to have had the opportunity to race more against eachother, sadly that was never to be. altho they where both very good in driving when we describe legends we dont just take into account there on track performance and owe count there media face and private lives. again in this category both (apart from maybe some interviews with m.s). men where admired and called gentleman, if murray walker says that micheal schumacher was a gentleman then thats good enough for me.And as most informed people will know Senna had charisma to throw away. He donated millions of dollars to charities every year, and did his best to keep that as secret as possible. so rather than marr the character of either great driver and start calling names , why dont we agree that both drivers were equally fantastic in there given era ? btw senna will always be my sporting hero. but i also accept he had a rival in micheal schumacher. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bn880 5 Posted October 27, 2006 Schumacher was the guy, who motivated the ingineurs and all those people building the car. If you remember right: The Ferari was a bunch of **** during the first two years, when Schumacher drove the car.It was HIM who was able to communicate with the team, so that they could improve the car. This is recognized as an universal truth here in Italy. Ferrari never get in touch with any similar pilot before Schumi arrival: none of the drivers who came before him were so deeply involved in the car development/improvement process as he did. Our hope, as Ferrari supporters, is to see the same involvement from his successor: Kimi looks as fancy as Michael is, but he has got the same aura of professionism around him. Personally i always loved finnish drivers: they' re cold and of few words, and usually they dislikes gossip and protagonism with the media. Hakkinen was one of my favourite ever. Klavan I agree with that. However, a good driver does not make the best team automatically. There is only so much feedback and motivation he can provide. As most of you hopefully know, the car (& tires) is worth about 80% of what the result is at this level of racing. Half the drivers in the field could be at the front with those Ferrari wheels under them. Anyway I like Kimi as well, he has some good skills. He's one of the funniest guys out there too, in my opinion. Always so pessimistic, always focused on the hard journey and not the destination he may have reached. Hope his luck improves with F. Michael definetely became the best driver over the years, due to good conditions for a focused man like him to hone his skills. You don't just wake up one day and know how to feel a car like that... no matter who you are, it takes months and years of experience under stable conditions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PainDealer 0 Posted October 27, 2006 BUZZARD @ Oct. 26 2006,02:49)]that the great sport has been spoiled with money, greed and favoritism. the teams are absolutely not equal in any way. Unfortunately I guess that goes for all sports that involve a lot of money and public attention... well in F1 it's sad that it's too much about the equipment, not the skill. there are many very skilled drivers that are racing with a tricycle... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kavoven 4 Posted October 28, 2006 BUZZARD @ Oct. 26 2006,02:49)]that the great sport has been spoiled with money, greed and favoritism. the teams are absolutely not equal in any way. Unfortunately I guess that goes for all sports that involve a lot of money and public attention... well in F1 it's sad that it's too much about the equipment, not the skill. there are many very skilled drivers that are racing with a tricycle... Agreed. All these technical improvements, like the traction control are pure **** in my eyes... And I also agree than Kimi is a good successor for Schumacher... I like him very much and it was a pitty that his damn car was nearly half of the saison broken... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kernriver 4 Posted October 28, 2006 IMHO, Schumacher is the best F1 driver after Senna, but the worst sportsman i've ever seen. After what he's done to Hill, and especially Villneuve, i can't have even a gram of respect for that man. His driving was great, but his manners and actions at some points were very poor... He will be remembered for sure, in one way or another Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lukemax 0 Posted October 28, 2006 What anout what the FIA and other driver did to him off the "Pitch"? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
