Nogovan Light Infantry

[Supah 0]

Hey Supah,

Would you being willing to release your add-ons to the community for completion, i.e. as a alpha or beta demo? I think its a shame that such great add-ons won't see the light of day. Just a thought.  

No. If people want them so bad, we still need a scripter. And to dispell any idea that NAFP "Failed" because of us being too willing to change course, the basic equipement for NAFP was selected by me, Sole and a couple of other members on day 3 of the addon project. We stuck to our guns (pun intended) from day one. We got suggestions for our airforce as stupid as using F-15's and B-1's. For our army we got the suggestions of  Abram's and Black eagles. M4's and apache's etc. There is only one reason why NAFP hasnt released as of yet and that is because of the three attempts to recruit a scripter it only got one reply from a guy who first wanted us to send all the addons to him to "evaluate". Apparently we started to late in the game to stand a chance for OFP resistance, let's hope ArmA sees a influx of serious scripters. I got to know some of the most skilled and talented people in the OFP Addon community, people like Jaguar, Edge, the men from RHS, DeadmeatXM, Sole, the guys from FDF, FW200 and Earl who allowed us to use some of his work. My hat goes of to them. They helped out.

[Speed123 0]

Thank you for the prompt response. I think it would be a real shame if your project didn't make it into OFP:R. If you don't mind me asking, what type of help are you looking for? I know you said you need a scripter, anything else? What sort of scripting is required? Just curious, thanks.

[Blackbuck 9]

maybe NAFP and you could sort of help eachother maybe and get a bit of both released that way we are all happy in cluding the NAFP guys  

[AOCbravo2004 0]

granted its fictional, but there's a line between fiction and reality, and even when creating an army for a ficticious country, you have to cross that line...

if you were inventing Nogova for the first time, i.e. BIS hadnt already popuated it, laid a background story etc to it, then fine... it could have a rail gun, T-90's and Javelins... but its not, and it has a history laid out already... its a small country, with a small populace... its income is blatantly nothing more than agriculture, some industry and perhaps tourism at best... that amounts to a rather small army, equiped with soviet hand me downs from the old soviet era the island experienced... expect things like the old BTRs etc to be around...

anyone who considers nogova to be able to afford T90's and Fulcrums/MI24's etc needs their head checking.

only supah and jaguar could really comment on why NAFP didnt get any futher... but i dont truely think it was anything to do with the community bickering on what weapons and vehicles would be used... they had a very clear idea of what they wanted, and having worked with Jaguar closely in the past year, he's not one to care what the community want or think is best...

their list of kit seemed ideal for the size of nogova, and its a damn shame it didnt get any futher (although the infantry and vehicles looks superb, especially that BTR 152).

R0adki11, i'd really reccomend speaking to supah and jaguar and see if you could continue some of their projects for NAFP - their camo choice was pretty excellent too... blended in perfectly.

But you are thinking of Nogova in past tense. Nogova surely has evolved/progressed since they were first established. Nogova should not be stuck in a time bubble, history shall continue forward.

[-23rd-_2Lt_Griff 0]

Rememeber that Nogova is and Island. So there light infantry may be low equiped. But after an invasion. If I was budgeting defence. I would be putting money into a damn fine Navy, and a damn fine airforce. 2 top Quality light role battle ships + some state of the art aircraft. With a low budget but damn fine trained conscription force. Nogova would be laughing.

[cozza 24]

I allways thought Nogova would just have a Milita, Like it looks like only 1000 people live on the island

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

_2Lt_Griff @ Aug. 18 2006,23:53)]Rememeber that Nogova is and Island. So there light infantry may be low equiped. But after an invasion. If I was budgeting defence. I would be putting money into a damn fine Navy, and a damn fine airforce. 2 top Quality light role battle ships + some state of the art aircraft. With a low budget but damn fine trained conscription force. Nogova would be laughing.

I'm sorry but that’s more wishful thinking than a realistic scenario. Look at Nogova, there’s no high tech industry, no manufacturing facilities, no oil industry so no obvious source of where all the money would come from to fund your "top quality" equipment.  I think the best Nogova should expect is older aircraft and arms that could have been either bought cheaply or donated from sympathetic richer states.  To give them Su-27/Mig-29/F-16 or anything else is totally unrealistic.

From reading the previous topics about NAFP I think the team has chosen some interesting and plausible kit with which to defend Nogova.  It may not be the chose either you or I would chose for them but its at least in the realms of fact not fiction.

[Supah 0]

_2Lt_Griff @ Aug. 18 2006,01:53)]Rememeber that Nogova is and Island. So there light infantry may be low equiped. But after an invasion. If I was budgeting defence. I would be putting money into a damn fine Navy, and a damn fine airforce. 2 top Quality light role battle ships + some state of the art aircraft. With a low budget but damn fine trained conscription force. Nogova would be laughing.

A battle ship?! Do you have any idea how many men it takes to run a ship like that? thousands of men are needed. Ever taken a drive around nogova? Notice how it's all small farms, villages and VERY small towns. If you take 2 x 2500 men to man those battle ships you will have depopulated the island and THEN you need to have a airforce. Nogova would be laughing allright ... at you.

[CanadianTerror 0]

Dont get over serious on whats supposed to be something made for fun.

Not everyones on the same planet.

[Supah 0]

Dont get over serious on whats supposed to be something made for fun.

Not everyones on the same planet.  

Oh yes, battle ships, black eagles, Su-33 and death stars all around! Is your planet called "Arcadia" by all chance?

[-23rd-_2Lt_Griff 0]

With all due respect. I think you will find, countries have armes fairs for a reason. Lots of small island countries have a small naval unit. With light destroyers, and small aircraft force.

What is the point in having a militia, or military force on a seperate island. The power of defence is prevention. Preventing invasion is the aim. Not dealing with it when it happens.

+ Who said death start not me.

Low budget aircraft and out of service light role ships are not as expensive as you would think. Like role battle patrol boats only require around 30 crew.

All I am suggesting is that maybe they would have a more naval borne force than a land borne force.

Yes all I agree that the chosen FN FAL equipment and suggested abouve camoflage is great. But again refering to my abouve points it would be cool if maybe there were naval capable troops. No not battle ships, but small water borne craft, and beach defense capabilities.

[neonblack 0]

Heres my two cents...

Nogova as stated earlier in this thread probably only has 1000-2000 people living on it at any given time. Most of them will be unfit for military service. So what Post-War Nogova will probably have in way of a military is a small force of professional soldiers (think private contractors), hired from Western or Eastern nations, with a mix of weapons from said parts of the world. AK's, AR-15's, SVD's, and FN Minimi's will probably work for them.

The rest of Nogova's land forces will be poorly-trained constript milita. Olive drab uniforms, or older European uniforms would be best for a semi-professional milita. Typical long-arms for bottom-of-the-barrel milita would be G3's, CETME, or maybe even ... Valmet Rk. 62's? Since there are plenty of forests for deer hunting, pumb-action shotguns and bolt-actions might make an apperance or two. Side arms would be cheap 9mm's of some sort.

Not sure about vehicles and the like...

[Supah 0]

_2Lt_Griff @ Aug. 18 2006,05:17)]With all due respect. I think you will find, countries have armes fairs for a reason. Lots of small island countries have a small naval unit. With light destroyers, and small aircraft force.

What is the point in having a militia, or military force on a seperate island. The power of defence is prevention. Preventing invasion is the aim. Not dealing with it when it happens.

+ Who said death start not me.

Low budget aircraft and out of service light role ships are not as expensive as you would think. Like role battle patrol boats only require around 30 crew.

All I am suggesting is that maybe they would have  a more naval borne force than a land borne force.

There is a big fat difference between battle ships and light patrol boats, which we actually got fully functioning for NAFP. You were talking about battle ships. Read your original post.

[-23rd-_2Lt_Griff 0]

Ok fine scrap earlier post. Was only posting an idea, it being a forum and all.

[CanadianTerror 0]

EDIT: Some people take themselves too serious. Not worth debating...

[DB-ERAUPilot 0]

lol...ain't the ofp community great

[-23rd-_2Lt_Griff 0]

[Ironsight 1]

lol...ain't the ofp community great

[Messiah 2]

Its a discussion forum of course, but there has to be reasoning in your arguments, not just thinking out loud (or at least thats how i'd put it)...

supah, reckon you'd have time to post a list of your intended NAFP addons here, so people could see what a small nation like nogova would be using?

Quote[/b] ]But you are thinking of Nogova in past tense. Nogova surely has evolved/progressed since they were first established. Nogova should not be stuck in a time bubble, history shall continue forward.

no, not at all... we look at nogova in the early 80's in resistance... so lets say 26 years have passed... in countries across africa, conflicts have been going on that long, and i dont see somalia (for example) going from hand-me-down ak47 to F-16 since then? People forget that behind every modern piece of hardware, is a huge team dedicated to keeping it working... a modern fighter requires a huge ground crew and expensive technology - there is never a one off cost for hardware like this

Rather buy the old soviet era equipment, which while old, works without much more than a hammer and some swearing. And again, lets be honest... if somewhere like Nogova was to be attacked, any 'army' would merely be there to provide some resistance so either an evacuation could be put in place, or multinational help could be requested. Why spend millions of dollars you dont have, on equipment that would be blown up within 5 minutes of the start of any invasion.

Patrol boats... well, now you've got my juices running

[cozza 24]

Messiah right. Look at Australia for example, Allot of our veichles r old.

90 Leopard tank. Thore there getting replace with Abrams

35 F-111  

And there probly some other old stuff in there 2.

And for a country of 20 million we only have 26 000 troops full time. Plus 17 reserves

[Messiah 2]

not sure what your point is, unless you're agreeing with me?

You do provide some insight that if a country like Oz seems to lack alot of moder equipment, then why the feck would Nogova have any?

[stevevcb 3]

Seventeen blokes in reserve? What use is that?

But yeah, Messiah's right about military hardware not being one-off purchases. Even if you were to buy a fleet of knackered old T55s, you'd still need:

- People to train crews on them

- Mechanics (REME types)

- People to train the mechanics

- Spare parts

- Ammunition

- Fuel

- A way of getting ammunition and fuel to the tanks

- Radios that work, preferably in conjunction with the ones the rest of the troops have

- A recovery vehicle that can pull it (no point in buying T80s if you've only got T55 ARVs)

All these things cost money and should be taken into consideration, even if they're not represented in OFP. I can understand not wanting to go for full-on realism, having Nogovan troops trundling around in rusty, knackered old armoured cars because they can't afford anything bigger than a Saracen, but on that same token, it makes no real sense having them equipped with multi-million dollar jet aircraft armed with $1m-a-throw missiles.

[kakagoegie 0]

Let's see:

Nogova: 2000 inhabitants, 1000 males, 50% fit for military --> 500 soldiers.

My 2 cents:

Army: Nogova is divided into 4 districts (NW, NE, SW, SE). Every district is commanded by a major with a staff of 5. Their task is to train the militia (all males fit for military service) in their area. Of course there is a HQ, commanded by a colonel/general (size will be about 30 men). The army won't use any armored vehicles bigger than a BTR/BRDM.

Navy/coast guard: 2 patrol boats armed with .50. Total navy will have around 40 men in service.

Airforce: no airforce

Of course civilian boats and planes can be claimed by the armed forces in case of an emergency.

So this will lead to about 100 men in fulltime military servive, which still is quite big for such a small island. All other personnel will be militia.

[DKM Jaguar 0]

The problem with ideas such as this is that it becomes "build your own army". If you think about Nogova as a 1:1 scale peice of land, you'd be lucky to find a group of farmers with shotguns and pitchforks. I am of course not suggesting this, but to create an army on the same technological footing as that of a Western European country or America is just pure fantasy.

They would not have a huge army manned by all of their population, if you think of the number of people required to keep tanks and equipment working in the way Kooky did, you can bet that it takes hundreds of times more people to keep a nation going, so it is somewhat futile to be defending a country that can't even spare the people to farm. There just would not be enough people to pull it off.

We already have US forces, with the technology, why do we need more? This project, like NAFP tried to acheive, was something different from the state-of-the-art army that we have come to expect, why would you want yet again a high tech army vs another high tech army, when this project would allow a mix of a guerrilla type combat style mixed with slightly more militarised equipment, such as the suggested BTR152s?

It is worth noting that this thread is about light infantry, not building your own army.

[Apollo 0]

Actually size shouldn't be a limit to the quality of equipment a country can use, in fact it isn't so neither in RL.Plenty of relativly small but advanced country's in this world do use modern equipment.Sure the Australians might have a only moderate army, but then again Australia is some isolated island In outwards Asia that has no enemies and few potential ones.

Lets take for ex. Israel, a small country with plenty of top notch stuff, relativly atleast to their poppulation.Here money clearly is an factor to a good material quality to manpower rate, and an volatile region to provide a reason to mobilize more than normal % of poppulation in the army.

Take for ex. Finland in WW2, a country with a relativly very low poppulation that neverthelless fielded a fairly large army with moderatly decent equipment, or a country that event today fields a fairly small though technologicly advanced army.Being next to Mother Russia helps in the prepperation field here, and international contacts in the aquisition of material partly.When Israel was only small (and poppulation wise extremely small) and new and attacked by all its neighbours in it's first war it was not much more than money and contacts that helped them achieve victory neither.

The point is, if you have lots of money, strategic importance, and lots of friends, then you can get youre hands of quite some nifty material.Afcourse the VOLUME of the equipment that you will try to aquire will limit itself to the available manpower, but what it comes down to is then some understrenght brigades of some fine quality.

Basicly it's quite simple.Put a giant oil field under nogova (theoreticly) and some derricks on top.There you have money, strategic importance and friends all combined.If all these factors are given then, why wouldn't Nogova opt for a high quality army that can maximize the use of the few manpower that the island has?If all else is given, Manpower becomes the one crucial resource that they might lack in the future, and from a strategic perspective it would then be top priority for it's military to try to protect it's manpower as much as possible.With the best equipment their money could afford.Heck even if they were fairly poor, millitia would always be the worst option available, as high losses could be expected from them.And there is reason to have a defense force, the island has been invaded before and it has threatening neighbours.

Israels MBT, the Merkhava, is an ex. how a country that is righ and modern but lacks manpower can field something that is both of high quality and provides the best protection for its scarce manpower in the field.It more than logical if you consider that manpower is their greatest strategic consideration.Most army's in this world are buidl around factors and abundance and scarcity.And the fact is that manpower and quality here are usually opposite factors relavitvly to eachother.A country with hughe manpower like China less of a need for expensive high grade material, bang for the buck here is more effeciant, while country's with low manpower will usually buy the best they can buy, granted the limitations of funds and other resources.