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Ukraineboy

Modern Tank Combat

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My biggest gripe with OFP is that it's tank combat isn't even close to realistic. To put it basically, OFP's tank combat is just WWII combat with a few more gadgets, and without even working sights. It forces you to guess your shots and aim gun higher.

What I hope that the devs look at is T-72 Balkans on Fire. Now, it's a bit hard to get into because it's a simulator and I understand that so some of it's features aren't needed. But there are key ones that NEED to be in the game for the sake of balance and FUN. Arcing your shots in a tank is not fun. I understand that OFP is mainly an Infantry game but there are a couple simple things that heck, could actually be modded in, that have not been added.

1.) Ballistics Computer. Tanks since the T-72A have Ballistics computer. In T-72 Balkans on Fire, this is handled by putting the cursor on the marker, right clicking for rangefinder, and then the Ballistics computer calculates and gives you the green light to fire. Obviously, tanks such as the T-80 and M1 Abrams will have faster, and more accurate FCS systems.

2.) Real stabilized guns. It was noted in another interview that technically OFP has this, but you have to have the tank gun moving always. This should not be the case.

3.)Manual reloading button. It's totally useless to have ATGMs, HEAT and SABOT rounds if you can only use one in a battle. After each tank fire, you should have to click R or whatever to reoad. Why you may ask this is necessary? So you can choose the ammo you want to reload after each shot. BOOM, that tank is down. Uh oh, a helicopter, better reload an ATGM. (yes ATGMs are used against helicopters in russian tanks)

4.)Infrared. Even the T-55 had an IR Searchlight.

5.)OPTIONAL: Manual Driving in Veteran mode. All russian tanks have Manual gear shifts, while the M1 Abrams is automatic. It's just boring, for me atleast, to just press forward while driving. I want to control my driving because it's more fun.

6.)OPTIONAL: Moving gunsights via keyboard, not mouse. This is used in RO, but I think this is a bit too far since its really hard to hit infantry with this damn thing. Maybe make this a Veteran mode thing.

7.)MOD IDEA MOSTLY: This is just something I'd thought I would bring up. T-72 Balkans on Fire has deformable terrain but I in no way expect ArmA or even Game2 to have it. But, in the game the T-72 has a hydraulic bulldozer, so it is able to entrench itself (this was designed in because of the known problem with the tank gun's depression problems). Now in T-72 Balkans on Fire, you can deform the terrain to entrench yourself. But, I remember that in FFUR when a helicopter crashed, it spawned this above ground deformed terrain. It looked very cool and was actually quite a good illusion. This could be done in the same way with the tank. You could simply spawn a small "hill" of ground infront of the tank that covers most of the hull. Make it have to take a minute or so to create, or maybe less. This is mainly a mod idea since its possible already.

8.)Transporting troops on the top of tanks. This has been done since, well any vehicle that could move. I don't suggest people do this as an offensive tactic but if you're stuck in the middle of nowhere, why not hitch a ride on a T-72s hull? Should be already possible anyways...

These are just some of the few things I am interested in seeing in the game. Please add your own comments, constructive criticisms and feedback about what you want to see in Tank combat in ArmA. Sadly, I am sure actually almost all of these could have been modded into OFP but for reasons unknown to me they havent been.

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Yeah, I would like to see tanks engage targets from stand-off distances, not go charging right into the middle of the enemy.

It might be Soviet TraDoc to go punching a hole through the middle, but it seems clear that Nato TraDoc is to make use of the superior firepower at distance.

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3.)Manual reloading button. It's totally useless to have ATGMs, HEAT and SABOT rounds if you can only use one in a battle. After each tank fire, you should have to click R or whatever to reoad. Why you may ask this is necessary? So you can choose the ammo you want to reload after each shot. BOOM, that tank is down. Uh oh, a helicopter, better reload an ATGM. (yes ATGMs are used against helicopters in russian tanks)

You can allready do that in OFP. if you see it like this:

You fire whatever is in the chamber, or, in the action menu, you reload with the other type of amunition available, from SABOT nto HEAT, or from HEAT to SABOT, the only difference is that if you don't select something it will automaticly reload with whatever was selected previously.

Quote[/b] ]5.)OPTIONAL: Manual Driving in Veteran mode. All russian tanks have Manual gear shifts, while the M1 Abrams is automatic. It's just boring, for me atleast, to just press forward while driving. I want to control my driving because it's more fun.

You meen like you would in a car, well, if they include gears in ArmA they'll make a Spaniard very happy.

I would love to have some decent driving with any kind of vehicle in ArmA, even the driving in "Joint Operations" is more enjoyable, specially the motorbyke inlove.gif  I just love to jump around while playing JO, specially if I get chased by the other team. But car driving with gears and a much beter phisics system would be great.( Me thinking of the film Roning) icon_rolleyes.gif

I love tank battles in OFP, but I do agree them additions would be very wellcome.

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it'd be nice to have a full simulator aspect for each 'branch' ( infantry, aircraft, vehicles and ships )

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Quote[/b] ]it'd be nice to have a full simulator aspect for each 'branch' ( infantry, aircraft, vehicles and ships )

Nice? huh.gif NICE!? crazy_o.gif Whatta hell, that would be a dream come true biggrin_o.gif Not gonna happen anytime soon though sad_o.gif

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I hope it will have thermal sights and laser range finders and a way to simulate the hunter killer on Challenger II with a seperate laser for the commander.

I like the loading system as IRL the loader will keep loading the nature last used unless told to load another nature.

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Ehhh It's a game not a fucking full blown tank simulator.

I'm sure you could have phrased that much more poitely. Please try to do so next time.

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From info what i've gathered of VBS, there is ballisticcomputer and laserrangefinder in tanks. Stabilized guns would be GREAT, in OFP player is much worse gunner that AI as player can't react so fast and accurately to bumpy ground.

realistic thermal sights would be GREAT too.

Quote[/b] ]Even the T-55 had an IR Searchlight.

But the M1A1 doesn't have, so other tanks can't have it aswell biggrin_o.gif US tanker were dreaming of it, so do they have it now... i don't know, haven't spotted it from photos.

It shouldn't be total simulation of tankwarfare, but more realistic touch would be refreshing. Steel beasts or T-72 balkans on fire are simulators. But that's about it, Any other aspect is only for AI, unlike in ArmA. ArmA needs to have realistical touch on every side, it doesn't have to be simulation. the great picture of warfare and it's aspects cover all that easily.

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Guest Ti0n3r

Hmm, very good points Ukraineboy. Agreed to 100%

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the biggest problems with current ofp tanks are

1: hitpoint damage system (ie you can kill them with hand grenades or mulitple weak rpg's) crazy_o.gif

2: tank ai which is best described as CCCCCHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAARRRRGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEEEE confused_o.gif

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I don't know about you guys, but the sound the tank does when the cannon moves is really anoying!

Specially if we are playing a Tank mission all the way.. We will hear that stupid and anoying sound till the end.

I personally played a tank mission with a friend where i was gunner and i went crazy for two hours, the noise the tank does when we have to scan horizon is terrible borring for the game!

As i play in vetmode all the times i have to scan all the time and the noise is terrible/not good!

<span style='font-size:27pt;line-height:100%'>Please BIS do something about it</span>.. I'm preaty sure that the sounds when we move the cannon aren't that terrible.!!!!!! mad_o.gif

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God, I hate stick shift on cars...That's like playing Need for Speed online, and manual shift will be a clear disadvantage over auto. Well, maybe it's just me. crazy_o.gif

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hm. probably BIS should have hired/bought T72 Balkans developer team for the tank part of ArmA. Sounds good that game.

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I totally agree that we need better tank battles! we MUST get MUCH better!!

So BIS: MAKE THE TANK BATTLES MUCH MUCH BETTER IN AA AND GAME2!!!!

crazy_o.gifcrazy_o.gifcrazy_o.gifsmile_o.gif

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Ehhh It's a game not a fucking full blown tank simulator.

Visit a modules for game2 topick or the older one about the modules then... whistle.gif

No need to talk about what systems are or are not in a modern tanks...I fully agree that the tank warfare in ofp must be changed...  xmas_o.gif

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the devs obviously are not going to include the amout of realizm you want, you should try the game Balkans on fire. I hear it is something more along the lines of what you are looking for. xmas_o.gif

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the devs obviously are not going to include the amout of realizm you want, you should try the game Balkans on fire. I hear it is something more along the lines of what you are looking for. xmas_o.gif

What makes you say/think that? Although OFP/Arma were not full simulators the devs have consistantly leaned towards a greater level of simulation where they can do so. If gameplay were their only consideration we would all have been playing BF/BF2 back in 2001.

It's unlikely that we will see everything from that list in Arma, however I don't think it's unlikely that we will see some of it. In particular the ballistics computer, stabilized guns, IR searchlight, moving gunsights via keyboard etc are all things which are very easy to write and would have no negative impact on gameplay.

If we don't see those things in an unmodded Arma we will hopefully see them in Game2 along with other items from the list.

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hm. probably BIS should have hired/bought T72 Balkans developer team for the tank part of ArmA. Sounds good that game.

Just crappy at least when compared to Steel Beasts pro PE.

It would'nt take that much to make OFP's tank combat much more realistic without alienating the noobs, it would be actually easier when you could hit moving and/or distant targets with ease and if the user was stupid enough they could refrain from using any of the ballistic stuff and fire blindly with the optics. wink_o.gif

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Wouldn't mind an optional manual gear shift for all vehicles, to be honest. I don't mind playing multiplayer with manual shift while others used autoshift either. Having an easy switch like most racing games has wouldn't be totally off either.

Being dedicated driver is a bit boring in slow vehicles, like a tank or a truck, so manual gear shift might add an extra dimension that might be fun to manage. I wouldn't force it on everyone though.

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To be honest, when I saw that Ukraineboy posted this topic, I thought it was another BIS bash. crazy_o.gif

BUT, he does bring up many good points, without the unneccesary bashing.  I like all the ideas, especially thermal sights and ballistic computers, except controlling the gunsights with the keyboard.  Wouldn't this be a bit clunky to use?

Not too keen on the manual driving, either, but if it's optional, why not?

-Pilot

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How about an accelerator control like in RO too? Its a bit annoying constantly having to hold down W or E and limits your ability to multi task.

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One major gripe I’ve always had with OFP’s tank aspect is the damage system. I would like the tanks in ArmA to be capable of being properly disabled and immobilized, no super healing from a repair truck.

In OFP, a tank which has suffered maximum damage to its tracks is still capable of moving in a straight line, now to my knowledge that’s unrealistic (please correct me if I’m wrong on this one.) Also tanks taking damage in the engine section are still capable of functioning until the tank is destroyed. And as pointed out, tanks can be destroyed via bullets and grenades.

In my opinion tanks should be feared, respected and above all, valued. It’ s no good if people see a tank driving through the countryside and think to themselves, we can easily destroy it with three RPGs and the crew will die in the explosion. Tanks in flashpoint are a death-trap, surely it would be a better idea if a tank could only be destroyed by the appropriate munitions, lesser munitions by all means could be used to disable the tank, hell it would make for some interesting sub scenarios, disabled tank needs assistance, crew taking heavy fire. I’d like that.

As for the actual repairing of a tank, this shouldn’t be instantaneous as it is in Flashpoint, give it a progress bar or animation indicating that the tank is being repaired. Repairs should also be able to be carried out by crew members.

If you can imagine all this then surely you can understand the prospect for large scale multiplayer games and what these features would bring to the game play. Tanks would feared but also along with that fear would be the of losing one or worse, losing one to the enemy.

Anyone that has played Soldiers Heroes of World War II will undoubtedly understand what I’m raving about, all these features are capable of being implemented within OFP, I *hope* that BIS has something similar in line for the tanks in Armed Assault.

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Wouldn't mind an optional manual gear shift for all vehicles, to be honest. I don't mind playing multiplayer with manual shift while others used autoshift either. Having an easy switch like most racing games has wouldn't be totally off either.

Being dedicated driver is a bit boring in slow vehicles, like a tank or a truck, so manual gear shift might add an extra dimension that might be fun to manage. I wouldn't force it on everyone though.

That was exactly my point. No need to make it a must for everybody, and it will improve the general driving, because driving from A to B in a jeep or a MBT is just plain boring, and a new way to drive would bring a lot more funn to those por assigned driver in those really seriously reality perfectionist clans and squads. Plus the fact that OFP have allready a massive library of user created car addons, and some of them really nice, so why don't just add an auto/manual chice? plus it would make the racing fans happy too, opening a lot of possibilities on mission making and specially MP gaming experiences ( Again, Ronin any one?)

Armored vehicles should be improved in ArmA, that's a fact, but I have the impression that this sort of things are allready over and done in ArmA, and that by now all this type of feature ading decission have long time been made.

About a "Need For Speed" sort of cut in OFP? as long you do that to cars I'm cool with that, well it would be a nice thing to have if you could get some sort of driving that is going to let you take that turn at fast speed if your gear-brake-speed-steering combination is done right, that would be uterly cool. Just imagine that the AI could speed away trying to shake you out or chase you, so you can ad the car chase to singleplayer and multyplayer

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Can someone please show me a link to the Balkans on fire game? or is it an OFP MOD? anyway, please give me a link to the MOD or the GAME smile_o.gif

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