UN fears new conflict in Somalia

[scary 0]

By the way - Balschoiw, why do you think that anyone who criticizes Islam hates Arabs or Muslims in general?

When you say:

Quote[/b] ]Same goes for your argument, you know with Jihad being a "peaceful struggle for inner peace". Jihad is an integral part of Islam, but for the most part, the people who realize that take it to mean one specific thing. Can you guess which one of these it is? -

A: Violent deaths to the infidels

Or...

B: A peaceful struggle for inner peace

that is not a critique of Islam, it is an attack on Muslims personally. Bearing in mind there are ~1bn Muslims in the world and rising, your suggestion that 'for the most part' they wish to impart violent death on the infidels would mean that between 8.5% and 17% of the World's population is determined to kill the other 83%. Perhaps you could show some pictures or other evidence of this amassing army that is many times bigger than the combined active and reserve forces of the rest of the world. Or perhaps what you said is Islamophobic nonsense?

[Donnervogel 0]

Same goes for your argument, you know with Jihad being a "peaceful struggle for inner peace".

Uhm as I understood it he didn't say Jihad was a "peaceful struggle for inner peace" ONLY. He said it was an aspect of Jihad that is often forgotten.

[walker 0]

Hi all

I have seen exactly the same things in interpretations and out of context quotes of the Koran the Jewish Torah, the Christian Testaments and the Communist Manifesto; Pot calling Kettle black.

The texts are more or less all the same. Wierdo adherents of dodgy sects (even controling ones) have all used corruptions of their belief to excuse atrocities. Their deities and leaders even commit infanticide and say it OK cause the other Guys are not believers or sinners or anti revolutionaries or dont eat the correct food on special feast days.

Sum total of the Argument a big fat Zero.

Such interpretations and out of context quotes often say more about the obvious racism of the persons saying it than anything else.

Back to the topic of Somalia and what can be done?

Any way getting away from the this obvious diversion from the point of this thread and back to the facts.

The real important thing here is the obvious political impotence of the coalition. Overstretched by a pointless war in Iraq, George Bush Junior and his NeoConMen buddies have done a deal with the very warlords who knocked the Blackhawks down and stole the UN's food aid.

Crying wolf with Iraq is really starting to bite it has made it obvious the George Bush Junior is America's first and only International Lame Duck President.

Sadly Walker

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]

By the way - Balschoiw, why do you think that anyone who criticizes Islam hates Arabs or Muslims in general?

Show me where I wrote that.

I deliberately pointed out both sides of the story and you can be assured that I do not condone any violent actions commited under the violent aspect of Jihad. It´s funny that even when you point out the different aspects of Jihad in today´s world there are still some who don´t seem to be able to read a sentence to it´s end and somewhat start their own verbal witchhunt.

Try harder.

If all muslims on this planet would adopt the Jihad definition you prefer to cite we would already be wiped of this planet, no matter if we have nukes, bunkers or whatever.

You might want to rethink that reasoning and maybe oneday talk to a muslim.

There are a lot of christians and jews and whatever who kill(ed) for what they assume(d) a religious matter.

Most cruel and judged by numbers horrific crimes were committed under the christian cross by people who interpreted the bible the way they wanted to interpret it to justify their doings. Do you complain about extremist christs, do you complain about extremist jews ?

Does that mean there are none ? Does that really mean that the muslims are the big bad men we have to be afraid about, or is it just the enemy you need to compensate your fears ? Someone or something you can point your fingers on and label evil per definition ?

Didn´t exactly this happen to the jews as you were said to be the killers of Jesus ? When you rethink it, was that approach ok, or don´t you think that a different approach would have served the jewish people better ?

Everyone who has actually been to Somalia and has seen the everyday life there knows that people have a strong desire for religion as they have nothing else that can temporarely get them out of their misery.

If Somalia was christian or jewish in large parts we would see

the same fanatism, only under a different umbrella.

Think about it, especially the european history and the middle east history doesn´t make us look any better than the nowadays fanatical muslims in different spots on this planet.

Guilt is universal, the search for a scapegoat is just a sign of fear, and fear creates aggression and misjudgements.

Welcome to planet earth year 2006.

[Nemesis6 0]

Quote[/b] ]Or perhaps what you said is Islamophobic nonsense?

First, let's look up "phobia" on dictionary.com, for the sake of context

Quote[/b] ]1. A persistent, abnormal, and irrational fear of a specific thing or situation that compels one to avoid it, despite the awareness and reassurance that it is not dangerous.

2. A strong fear, dislike, or aversion.

Well, let's see... To start with, is my fear irrational? But before I answer that - do I have a fear of Islam as a religion? Yes and no. As with most religions, I take a stance against what I see as "wrong" within them - Be it, for example, the anti-Semitism of Jesus, or the death cult that Mohammed promoted throughout his time on this earth. Don't tell me that I single out Islam because I'm afraid of Muslims. I am not afraid of Muslims, I am afraid of fanatics. And after hearing all those quotes that they spout out during their Jihad videos, well, I really can't help but look up what they're saying and check if it's actually there. The reason that I don't criticize Christianity is because A: My interest in it is not that big, and B: Christians aren't really the ones blowing themselves up in the name of Jahve. When you have a certain group that represents about 90% of all global terror today, well, I don't know about you, but I'd be curious to see what they're about, and when I do that, it is only my opinion of the fanatics AND those who support them that stoops. In summery - I don't think I can be Islamophobic if my fear of these individuals -- the extremists -- isn't irrational. I hope that helped clarify what you see as Islamophobia. In double summery: I'm afraid to get my head chopped off.

[Scrub 0]

I believe this back and forth 'catch-22' discussion is actually a demonstration why there shall not be peace between these groups.  As most religions are considered by the intelectually secular as illogical, unreasonable, and worthless (again to those who have not ventured far into them) - and to the believers, they are worthy, fulfilling, meaningful, and to some the only reason to live.

Simply put, one cannot/will not understand the other, and there is not much discussion or compromise that can be made to alter one or the other, as that nullifies the foundation for their existance.  Tough nuts, that.  

Edit: Not saying that anybody is either of these, just very particular of how they think of a subject, and a failure to see eye to eye.

[Balschoiw 0]

All the drama on a microlevel showed up when a joint palestinian, israeli expedition to the Antarctica was conducted. I know it´s offtopic here but I guess it sums up the freaked situation pretty well:

<a href="http://www.jewishtucson.org/content_display.html?ArticleID=112385" target="_blank">

A 'Cold' Peace: Israelis, Palestinians Build Ties in Antarctica</a>

Quote[/b] ]NEW YORK, March 28 (JTA) -- Just before news networks flashed footage of furious Palestinians vowing to avenge Israel's killing of the leader of Hamas, there was a more heartwarming story on the Middle East.

A few Israelis and Palestinians were honored this month by Search for Common Ground, a non-profit organization dedicated to conflict resolution, for diplomacy through sport.

Their sport was an extreme one: On New Year's Day, the group embarked on a 35-day expedition to Antarctica that culminated in the scaling and naming of an unexplored mountain.

Back from the pole, the expeditionary group, known as "Breaking the Ice," realized they would return to the all-too-familiar tragedy of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

The endless strife makes members of the group want to "stand up and scream very loud that we would very much like to see a different world," said Heskel Nathaniel, who launched the project.

An Israeli living in Germany, Nathaniel said he felt well positioned and motivated to organize the project from a "neutral country."

Being away from Israel during the intifada, he said, he "felt paralyzed not being able to do anything" and saw the Antarctica trip as a way to make a contribution.

Nathaniel teamed up with an Israeli climber friend, Doron Erel, to assemble the mission. Through their connections, including Israeli journalists working in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, they found four Israelis and four Palestinians willing to sail from the southern tip of Chile through the ominous Drake Passage to Antarctica.

They also organized an eight-person support crew, consisting primarily of Israelis and Europeans. They included a physician, mountain guides, cameramen to produce a documentary and an aide to keep them in contact with a coordinating office in Germany via satellite phone.

The hikers included an Ethiopian Israeli who had lost most of her family trekking across Sudan en route to Israel, a Palestinian from Jerusalem who had been jailed for attacking Israeli troops with Molotov cocktails and a lawyer who served in an elite commando unit in the Israeli army.

Despite their differences, members of the team knew how to "treat each other as human beings," said Olfat Haider, an Israeli Arab from Haifa, during an interview with JTA in New York.

"Maybe the solution is vodka," Nathaniel joked of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, describing an alcohol-fueled highlight of the expedition.

Some 10 days into the trip, the group anchored alongside a Ukrainian research station in Antarctica when the local welcome wagon -- two researchers, the station chief and cook -- dropped by with vodka.

When the only one of the four not named Vladimir began imitating John Travolta's dance moves in "Pulp Fiction," a raucous party ensued, complete with dancing, stripping and kissing.

"It was like a cooling down of all the emotions" for the group, who were raw from the trip's physical and psychological strain, Nathaniel said.

Indeed, the expedition had plenty of rough spots.

Crossing the Drake Passage, which Nathaniel calls the "largest ships' graveyard in the world," meant enduring waves nearly 50 feet high and winds up to 80 miles per hour.

Almost everyone was seasick during those days, and two of the participants suffered bruises as the boat seesawed.

There also were political battles -- like when Nasser Quass, the Palestinian who had been in an Israeli jail, said Jews have no claim to the Temple Mount.

"We were completely insulted," Nathaniel said.

Avihu Shoshani, the Israeli lawyer who often butted heads with Quass, was furious. Haider began to cry.

The parties separated, avoiding each other until the next evening, when they had to continue navigating, Nathaniel said.

Another incident was naming the mountain, which they ultimately called the "Mountain of Israeli-Palestinian Friendship."

A few of the Palestinians wanted to call it Jerusalem, but the Israelis wanted to eschew political statements. Other names like Mount Hope and Mount Peace already had been used, the group learned.

The team banded together -- sometimes literally, with ropes -- to complete the mission.

Erel, the expedition's leader and the first and only Israeli to climb Mount Everest, remarked on the bizarre nature of climbing a mountain at "the end of the world," tied to a Palestinian whose brother was killed in Lebanon and another who was jailed in Israel.

But Erel had faith in his partners.

"I didn't think for one moment they were going to cut the rope," he said.

Nathaniel viewed some of the political tensions as a reflection of the pressures placed on the Palestinians. The program had the endorsement of Palestinian Authority President Yasser Arafat, but Quass said he received a death threat from the Al-Aksa Brigade, the terrorist wing of Arafat's Fatah movement.

The mission did gain the blessings of U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan, the Dalai Lama, Israeli Labor Party leader Shimon Peres, Jordan's King Abdullah and other dignitaries.

The $200,000 trip was financed by several businesses and non-profit groups, including outdoor outfitters The North Face and New-Zealand-based MacPac, as well as the German money-management firm Arsago and the Peres Center for Peace.

With the trek now behind them, Nathaniel and Erel are working to make "Breaking The Ice" into an annual program -- though not to Antarctica. The next trip, slated for March 2005, will be a camel trek across the Sahara Desert for Jews and Arabs from several countries.

Launching the program with such a bold expedition was no accident: The group wanted a headline grabber to brand their concept, Nathaniel explains. Indeed, the story captured the attention of dozens of international news networks, including Arab TV stations.

Now, the group hopes to inspire children with the example of bold adventurers who will symbolize a "new kind of hero," Nathaniel said. He explained that the group plans ultimately to create programs to instill friendship among children from countries of conflict.

In the meantime, the participants say they're staying connected, in the same way they feel their cultures are destined to do.

At one point on the trip, when the group came to a particularly scenic spot, the Israelis joked that it would be a nice area for the Palestinians to build their state.

The Palestinians' response: only if Israel would set up shop next door.

"In some respects, there is a dependency," Nathaniel said.

In any case, both parties seem to realize they're in the same boat.

Of course we cant send two countries on an expedition like that, but sometimes I think that would be a nice way of showing them that all are human afterall and religion can be more than just a dividing factor.

And just to show that Islam doesn´t mean that people blow themselves up like mushrooms here you have something from Somalia that should make you rethink some of the classic prerogatives:

Quote[/b] ]June 14, 2006: The head of the Islamic Courts sent a letter to U.S. officials pledging to assist America in finding and arresting Islamic terrorists. That bit of good news is counterbalanced by the fact that there are eleven different Islamic Courts organizations, and each one has factions. There are many in the Islamic Courts movement who openly, or quietly, support Islamic terrorism. It's good the head guy of this loose organization comes down on Islamic terrorism, but he doesn't speak for all in the Islamic Courts movement.

What is really troubling is that the US once more take sides and in this conflict chose to support warlords who oppose islamistic movements. It´s not that they only oppose radical islamists but islam in general, so basically the US are funding criminals who fight a religion. In conclusion the US is fighting Islam in Somalia and that´s really very bad news and if the word is spread the US will have to answer questions on why they support militant outlaws who make people suffer in Somalia and fight Islam.

If I was a US citizen I would really question the administrations approach as it is the same approach they took with Saddam, and I guess we all have learned that the approach only created more violence and deaths and in the end resulted in the big scale war we see right now in Iraq.

One should think they have learned from the past, obviously they haven´t.

Quote[/b] ]June 16, 2006: The Islamic Courts do not control the majority of the guns in Somalia, but they have the largest mobile force (over a hundred pickup trucks, many with with heavy machine-guns mounted on the back), and can move about, overwhelming local militias one by one. The problem is, the mobile force cannot control the entire country at once. The eleven separate Islamic Courts organizations each represents a different warlord that has joined the Islamic Courts movement, and, at some risk, can choose to leave the organization as well. Right now, the Islamic Courts are riding high, for they bring with them some law and order. But some of the law is hard to take. No movies, TV or music, at least according to the more hard line Islamic Courts clerics. There is the beginning of a problem, as there is no uniformity in the Islamic Courts when it comes to enforcing Sharia (Islamic law). Somalia was never a Sharia kind of place, although there is a long history of armed clerics leading resistance to one invader or another. The longer the Islamic Courts control a large amount of territory, the greater the probability of the organization breaking up.

The UN is trying to establish negotiations with the Islamic Courts, who need the food aid supplied by the UN. The UN also opposes American aid to warlords who resist the Islamic Courts. That apparently also includes any American intervention. That could take the form of a few Special Forces teams, and one or two heavy bombers from Diego Garcia overhead. That would enable the anti-Islamic Court Somalis to go back on the offensive, after smart bombs had blasted the Islamic Courts vehicles. However, putting the warlords back in control would not do much for peace in Somalia, because the Islamic Courts have brought more law and order to the country than anyone has seen in fifteen years.

[scary 0]

Well, let's see... To start with, is my fear irrational? But before I answer that - do I have a fear of Islam as a religion? Yes and no.

I don't think I can be Islamophobic if my fear of these individuals -- the extremists -- isn't irrational.

Look closer at the second definition, neither fear or rationality are needed.

Quote[/b] ]As with most religions, I take a stance against what I see as "wrong" within them

Try the more difficult route of finding what is right with them, including Judaism.

Quote[/b] ]Be it, for example, the anti-Semitism of Jesus

If Jesus existed he would have been a Semite. So how would he be anti-Semitic?

Quote[/b] ]or the death cult that Mohammed promoted throughout his time on this earth.

And how is this different from Judaism or Christianity? Bear in mind, the three Abramic religions are all essentially based on the Old Testement.

Quote[/b] ]The reason that I don't criticize Christianity is because A: My interest in it is not that big, and B: Christians aren't really the ones blowing themselves up in the name of Jahve.

A: Because you're obsessed with demonising Muslims

B: So the IRA/UDF etc. haven't put any effort into blowing people up because one sides version of Christianity is better than the others? Christians have never tried to convert or kill all non-Christians?

What is the reason you don't criticise Judaism?

Quote[/b] ]When you have a certain group that represents about 90% of all global terror today, well, I don't know about you, but I'd be curious to see what they're about, and when I do that, it is only my opinion of the fanatics AND those who support them that stoops.

Perhaps you could provide some evidence of that figure you made up. When you've finished researching you will find that most terrorists are secular.

Quote[/b] ]And after hearing all those quotes that they spout out during their Jihad videos, well, I really can't help but look up what they're saying and check if it's actually there.

Here are some more for you:

2 If a man or woman living among you in one of the towns the LORD gives you is found doing evil in the eyes of the LORD your God in violation of his covenant, 3 and contrary to my command has worshiped other gods, bowing down to them or to the sun or the moon or the stars of the sky, 4 and this has been brought to your attention, then you must investigate it thoroughly. If it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, 5 take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate and stone that person to death. Deuteronomy 17

1 These are the decrees and laws you must be careful to follow in the land that the LORD, the God of your fathers, has given you to possess—as long as you live in the land. 2 Destroy completely all the places on the high mountains and on the hills and under every spreading tree where the nations you are dispossessing worship their gods. 3 Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones and burn their Asherah poles in the fire; cut down the idols of their gods and wipe out their names from those places. Deuteronomy 12

23 My angel will go ahead of you and bring you into the land of the Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Canaanites, Hivites and Jebusites, and I will wipe them out. 24 Do not bow down before their gods or worship them or follow their practices. You must demolish them and break their sacred stones to pieces.

31 "I will establish your borders from the Red Sea to the Sea of the Philistines, and from the desert to the River. I will hand over to you the people who live in the land and you will drive them out before you. 32 Do not make a covenant with them or with their gods. 33 Do not let them live in your land, or they will cause you to sin against me, because the worship of their gods will certainly be a snare to you." Exodus 23

They are just the sources of three of the 613 Mitzvot by which Jews are supposed to live. Lots of death and destruction in them.

The fact that the militias in Somalia are Muslim is totally irrelevent to the conflict there, whether or not they use it as a veil. The fighting would occur whether they were Muslim, Christian or Zoroastrian. It is the result of a power vacuum and many people wishing to be the big fish in a small pond.

A thirst for power is part of the human condition, it is not limited to followers of any religion.

[Nemesis6 0]

Quote[/b] ]If Jesus existed he would have been a Semite. So how would he be anti-Semitic?

If Jesus existed... From what I got out of that sentence, it sounds like you're generally against religions from that sentence. But to answer your question - Jesus was a Jew, but he formed his own religion, so you can't say that because he was a Jew he couldn't be anti-Semitic.

Quote[/b] ]And how is this different from Judaism or Christianity? Bear in mind, the three Abramic religions are all essentially based on the Old Testement.

It is different because the followers of Christianity today have generally evolved both mentally and spiritually and/or morally. Essentially, over the last few hundred years, Christianity has been secularized to a great extent, while Islam has been getting more and more strict, with Islamists seizing power in places where the numbers of adherents to it are big, and with this comes such lovely things as Sharia.

Quote[/b] ]A: Because you're obsessed with demonising Muslims

B: So the IRA/UDF etc. haven't put any effort into blowing people up because one sides version of Christianity is better than the others? Christians have never tried to convert or kill all non-Christians?

What is the reason you don't criticise Judaism?

First, I was not demonizing Islam when I declined my confirmation when I was like 14 or 13. Second, the conflict in Ireland had nothing to do with religion. Granted, Protestants and Catholics are very different, but that's still no excuse. It was a war of independance and religion had little to do with it. Now, the reason I don't criticize Judaism is because, well as I said, I don't open a religious book just to find faults... I try to find the good in religion if I really am to read a bible of whatever fate. You're absolutely right that there's bad, bad stuff in the old testament, but there's good, too, as there undoubtedly is in some parts of the Koran. And to conclude that, my focus on Islam is due to the nutjobs who blow themselves up and the bigger nutjobs who support them.

Quote[/b] ]Perhaps you could provide some evidence of that figure you made up. When you've finished researching you will find that most terrorists are secular.

I can't provide a source, but it was something I saw somewhere. While I'll gladly admit that it probably isn't accurate, I will still stand by this quote - It is a certain fact that not all Muslims are terrorists, but it is equally certain, and exceptionally painful, that almost all terrorists are Muslims. And I can tell you that over 5000 terrorist attacks have been committed by Muslims since 9/11.

Islamic Attacks, 2001-2003

Islamic terror attacks, 2004

Islamic terror attacks, 2005

Islamic terror attacks, first half of 2006

As I said, over 5000 killed by Islamists since 9/11.

[Acecombat 0]

While jihad is the metholodigy of islamic believers to struggle with themselves and their inner conflicts on one hand and the violent approach to non-believers on the other hand (<- read, 2 sides of the medal), AQ does not run a Jihad by definition of jihad as they deliberately target islamic believers in numbers for political goals, and use the jihad as a cover-up and recruiting tool under false pretense.

AQ is a terrorist organization who tries to promote their plan under the context of jihad while they break basic jihadism rules with their actions on a daily base.

This was one of the reasons why Zarquawi got finally killed.He claimed to conduct Jihad while he spent more time on killing believers of Islam than attacking non-believers to get his intended civil-war running.

AQ is the best example of abusing the jihad for very different purposes and a terrorist organization certainly cannot be compared to religious instrument or behaviour with traditional roots within the islamistic codex.

The expression jihad today stands for war, terror, killing and murder while it´s traditionally more than just that and if you talk to muslims you will find out that they use the expression jihad for the struggle within themselves, the struggle to find a way to live a life that is on one hand orientated towards their believe and faith and the temptations they face in daily life.

This is the other side of jihad, that is often forgotten.

I just wanted to highlight this.

<bs>

Your still stuck back in 2001 i see or maybe even further back.

No wonder this region hasnt seen any end to violence , with people like you to support Laden and company.

Way to go quoting SOMEONES opinion on the verses .

[scary 0]

If Jesus existed... From what I got out of that sentence, it sounds like you're generally against religions from that sentence.

How do you come to that conclusion then? There are many more religions than those involving Jesus and I've not seen any evidence that he did or did not exist. The bible doesn't count as evidence.

Quote[/b] ]But to answer your question - Jesus was a Jew, but he formed his own religion, so you can't say that because he was a Jew he couldn't be anti-Semitic.

Semitic is not the same as Jewish. Anti-Semitic is not the same as anti-Jewish.

Quote[/b] ]It is different because the followers of Christianity today have generally evolved both mentally and spiritually and/or morally.

Or is it because Christians have essentially achieved what they set out to do in establishing a major power base? The Vatican has an awful lot of say in World events, substantially more than any other religious group. Both Ireland and Italy wanted the phrase 'Christian values' in the European constitution and Christianity has a bigger say in US politics and legislation than pretty much anything else. And if you think Christianity has evolved, take a look at certain parts of Africa where Christians are still trying gain power.

Quote[/b] ]while Islam has been getting more and more strict, with Islamists seizing power in places where the numbers of adherents to it are big, and with this comes such lovely things as Sharia.

Unlike Christian countries I suppose. What book is it people swear on in court, and how credible would a witness be considered that refused? What is it that holds sway over US law? Gay marriage - just not Christian.

Quote[/b] ]First, I was not demonizing Islam when I declined my confirmation when I was like 14 or 13. Second, the conflict in Ireland had nothing to do with religion. Granted, Protestants and Catholics are very different, but that's still no excuse. It was a war of independance and religion had little to do with it.

You are very, very wrong and the conflict is in Northern Ireland, not Ireland. Potted history for you: Catholics enacted an apartheid on Protestants in Ireland. The British fought the Catholics. Protestants enacted an apartheid on Catholics in Northern Ireland. The British tried to stop it. The Catholics fought the Protestants. The Protestants fought the Catholics. The British got stuck in the middle. The Catholics fought the British. Both Northern Ireland and the Republic were already independent.

Try walking down the Falls Road at night with a big 'I'm a Protestant' sign. When the wounds have healed try walking down Shankhill with an 'I'm a Catholic' sign.

Quote[/b] ]Now, the reason I don't criticize Judaism is because, well as I said, I don't open a religious book just to find faults... I try to find the good in religion if I really am to read a bible of whatever fate.

Actually, you said: As with most religions, I take a stance against what I see as "wrong" within them. Yet you fail to see any wrong in a religion that is just as much a 'death cult' as Islam.

Quote[/b] ]I can't provide a source, but it was something I saw somewhere.

Maybe they made it up too.

Quote[/b] ]While I'll gladly admit that it probably isn't accurate, I will still stand by this quote - It is a certain fact that not all Muslims are terrorists, but it is equally certain, and exceptionally painful, that almost all terrorists are Muslims.

It is not at all certain. You are assuming, and assuming wrongly.

Quote[/b] ]And I can tell you that over 5000 terrorist attacks have been committed by Muslims since 9/11.

Is it possible for some people to talk about Muslims without referring to 9/11?

Do you honestly think a site that has as its header Islam: the Religion of Peace (believe it or else) along with a picture of someone with a head wound is balanced and trustworthy? How many times will people question the sources you use as evidence for your beliefs before you start to take notice?

5,000 acts committed by how many Muslims out of the 1bn?

Of course, your figure of 5,000 is wildly wrong and yet still doesn't come close to the number of terrorist incidents committed in the last five years, mostly by secular groups, such as FARC.

The site you give uses both the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan to bolster its numbers as well as being filled with things such as: 21-year-old woman stabbed to death by Pakistani on her wedding day for rejecting an arranged Muslim marriage.

That is a murder, not a terrorist attack just like the many other similar events listed. According to that site any Muslim that kills someone is a terrorist. Following the same logic, how many of the ~16,000 murders committed in the US each year are by people considering themselves Christian, and therefore, are Christian terrorists?

[Sophion-Black 0]

Man oh man... has this gotten off track.

BOTH OF YOU SHUT UP!!!

this is not a topic of religion or lack there of. now da#$it i thought i was going to read about somolia, now i feel like im at mass... jerry springer style. So my suggestion, more of a drawn line if crossed will result in absolute distruction, is to resume the topic as it was first posted.

NOW GET TO IT!!!

[Mr_Tea 0]

Agreed, and allready reported.

[Placebo 29]

Discuss Somalia or don't discuss in this thread please. Theological debates belong in another forum in another part of the internet.

[EiZei 0]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/5113868.stm

Quote[/b] ]

'Radical' heads new Somali body

Somalia's Islamic Courts, which control Mogadishu, have created a new power structure in which a leading Islamist wanted by the US is to play a key role.

Sheikh Hassan Dahir Aweys - who is on Washington's list of terrorists with alleged links to al-Qaeda - will head an 88-strong legislative council.

Uh-oh.

[miles teg 1]

Yeah the old leader of the Shariat Courts Union who was a moderate Muslim and who said it would work with Washington to keep Al-Qaeda out...well apparently he got booted out and now they elected this radical guy to head the organization. So yup... we are looking at a new front on the War on Terror in Somalia. I expect US troops to be sent there in the very near future.

By the way Placebo, since when are religioius discussions not allowed on the off-topic section of the BIS forums?

Religion and discussions on the war on terror go hand in hand.

If you ban discussions on religion, then you might as well ban discussions about the War in Iraq and the overall War on Terror.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>