Gang members use the USarmy to learn urban warfare

[stgn 39]

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-gangs01.html

Never thourgt about this before I visited a forum where police officers talked about increased sofistication of gang members which is used against police and rival gangs. One guy said he thort that open warfare between etnic groups in an not too fare future was realistic.

I think its a cause of worrie for the interstructure of the USA.

STGN

ps if this is supose too be in the Iraq or US politics thread I am sory please move or delete.

[EiZei 0]

Lower recruiting standards bring in less-than-desirable material.. how surprising.

I do wonder why this is going on so openly, as far as I know UCMJ is a hell lot stricter than the civilian equivalents.

And lastly, does the US military still boot you out for being a butt bandit and not keeping it secret?

[martinovic 0]

I thought they don't allow people who were in jail into the military, anywhere in the world.

[cozza 24]

Maybe. In Australia they do a Police check before you join and it depends what kind of crime. little Stuff like Vandelism and public drunkness dont count.

I hope not becuase I've got a police record with that on it. Lesson people, dont get drunk and wreak a golf course.

[shinRaiden 0]

MS-13 and the other El Salvadoran gangs have been running both sides of the military fence quite effectively for a number of years, and what you're seeing now is the domestic gangs trying to play catch-up.

There was an excellent article that I saw a couple months back detailing how in some cases that the more worrisome individuals are enlisting in stealth. Basicly new initiates are groomed for military service, and kept out of local action that would build up criminal records or gang profiling. These 'clean' guys then get in to the military, leech equipment back out onto the street, and get training to take back to the ghettos.

In the case of MS-13, they have the added advantage of international resources. Using the cash flow from low risk activities such as drug dealing, they then can use that to obtain the military-grade equipment they need from the more leaky El Salvadoran depot's. It's less risky and more deniable to smuggle in heavy arms than it is to try and pilfer them from US domestic depots. Culturally and juidicially, the US takes a very dim view of folks walking off with heavy weaponry, which puts the domestic gangs at a disadvantage since their rivals the Asian and Eastern Europeon gangs also have their motherland suppliers as well.

Most of the attention has been on Eastern Europeon channels due to the rampant parting out of the Red Army at the end of 'Major Operations' of the Cold War, and has been reemphasized with the GWOT related instabilities in the Balkans, Caucaus Mountains, and the middle eastern expatriate communities in Europe. It's been as a result diplomaticly convienent to put significant pressure and attention on those channels while avoiding the building domestic issues to the south and to the west.

One noted case was a container siezed at the Port of Long Beach a few years back originating in China packed full of AK-47 clones and all sorts of - to quote an old gringo movie that I forget the name atm - "Hot tameles with chili sauce". (The movie is about some white rancher / mercs that get caught up in the mexican revolution, intercept a barge loaded with heavy weapons, get ambushed by banditos, crack open a crate and find a hand-crank gatling gun, then finally get 'rescued' by the cavalry). The asian gang community has been especially difficult to penetrate for cultural reasons, and politically as well there's a significant problem of corruption in high office in the unwillingness to crack down on the trade abuses that also open the exploitable vectors for the militarization of the criminal element in the US.

As a side note however, it should be noted that there's significant historical precedent for this interaction. The organized mob scene of the 1910's and 1920's, and likely even into the 1930's, relied on clean insiders to supply the streets with Tommy Guns and the like. The trafficking was largely nailed down by heavy-handed enforcement of the 1934 National Firearms Act, and the gentlemans agreements and understanding between the institutionalized organized crime families that there were such things as too much firepower and that messy jobs would be very counterproductive to their primary aims of economic enrichment.

Another issue that is imminently facing the US is the military facet of the illegal alien problem. Presently as with many other militaries, there are a number of non-US citizens serving in the US Armed Forces. Included in that number have been regular reports of illegal aliens serving as well. Citizenship or lack thereof does not imply anything in regards to the loyalty and discipline of the soldier, but cultural attitudes towards military service should be taken into consideration in evaluation. Mexican military units in northern Mexico, as well as much of the federal police in those states, are completely subverted and controlled by the drug cartels. Units operating in northern Mexico effectively as part of the drug cartels provide logistics and security for both narcotics and human trafficking into the southern US. Reports routinely circulate as well alleging occasional incursion into US territory at geographically strategic locations, as well as kidnappings and armed attacks on US Border Patrol agents.

The difficulty in dealing with these situations is the insular self-segregating nature of these micro-communities results in the increased "us vs them" mindset, leading to the rationalized support or condolence of heavily armed and militaristic gang activity. This is the same attitude as evidenced by the Black Panther Party, the Nation of Islam enforcers, and white supremist militias. The difference with the Minuteman project however is that in large part they've adopted the liberal NGO observer model and applied it to a conservative issue, much to the chagin of the open borders advocates.

Compounding the matters is the non-negotiable barriers between the ethnic gangs. As did the the Jewish and Italian and Irish organized crime families before did, the domestic Black gangs do regularly establish agreements of understanding dividing up turfs and agreeing to not make things too messy in public. It's the street version of MAD + Detente. On the other hand the boundries between the Black and Asian gangs, or those gangs and the Latin American gangs, is much more unstable.

The situation however is exacerbated in the case of MS-13 and other similar para-military gang organizations that are nominally accustomed to military level operations in wholely lawless regions. Their practice of insurrection, infiltration, and exclusivity, combined with their strident 'control at all costs' mindset is a serious issue facing US domestic policy whether the politicians and public like it or not, and the involvement in the US military will have all sorts of nasty repercussions, not the least of which is the example set to the other domestic gangs which don't have the international supply connections than the trans-border gangs have.

[martinovic 0]

I cannot speak for asia, but here in Eastern Europe things are bound to get more stable, Russia will reform itself and stabilize things, or they will die out - standard of living is absolutely horrible for most russians.

As for other Eastern European countries, they want to join the EU and will have to tighten up security inorder to comply with EU regulations, this will have a negative impact on arms trade.

The balkan nations also want to join the EU, so hopefully the gangs in the US will have a lot less suppliers, as Russia and Eastern Europe as a whole gets richer - we won't need to sell old soviet equipment inorder to get money.

[5133p39 16]

... - we won't need to sell old soviet equipment inorder to get money.

this isn't about the "need", but the oportunity.

As long as there is an oportunity to sell anything, it will be sold, and since the old soviet equipment is so easy (as poeple say) to obtain, it will continue until there is a single firearm left.

[billybob2002 0]

Lower recruiting standards bring in less-than-desirable material.. how surprising.

I do wonder why this is going on so openly, as far as I know UCMJ is a hell lot stricter than the civilian equivalents.

And lastly, does the US military still boot you out for being a butt bandit and not keeping it secret?

Gangs senting their members into the military for training and etc. has been a problem for more than a decade. The lowering of recruiting standards in the last year or so did not create this problem. Here is a article from 1995....

http://www.streetgangs.com/topics/1995/072795cpblmil.html

Quote[/b] ]

LA street gangs infiltrate US army: The

Crips and the Bloods have

( Weekly Journal, The ) July 27, 1995

----------------------------------------------

LA street gangs infiltrate US army: The Crips

and the Bloods have been. uncovered within

the US military, and linked to drive-by

shootings and organised drug trafficking.

Vivienne Francis and Gregory Vistica

investigate ALLEN KING and his three children - aged

18-months and four and seven years old - were

hacked to death by a man who believed King

had told the police about a crack house he

operated. A gang killing in an American

inner-city ghetto? No. These murders took

place on an American army base and their

killer was an army specialist.

According to a special investigation in

American magazine Newsweek, street gang

activity, once confined to places like

South-Central Los Angeles, Chicago and New

York, has reared its ugly head in the US

military.

Notorious LA street gangs such as the Crips,

the Bloods and Chicago' s Folk Gangsters are

now active in all four branches of the armed

services and at more than 50 military bases

around the United States.

Although most gang crimes - which include

drug trafficking, robbery, assault and at

least 10 murders to date - have taken place

off-duty and off base, there are signs that

the problem is growing.

Army-enlisted men have been photographed

flashing gang signs in the middle of the Gulf

War. Some gang members have also staked out

their "turf" on aircraft carriers at sea, and

the navy was recently forced to build a wall,

1,000 foot long, to protect residents of one

of its housing complexes in California after

a spate of drive-by shootings.

So far, the gang-related activities - fights,

shootings, small drug trafficking - have been

relatively minor crimes, but some

investigators fear notorious gangs, like the

Crips, have a bigger goal in mind.

According to Newsweek, the US Justice

Department produced a report in 1994 that

warned some gangs had access to grenades,

[image] machine guns, rocket launchers and military

explosives. It added that members who are or

have been in the services are teaching others

military tactics, and that "with arms,

weapons proficiency and tactics, some street

gangs now have the ability to effectively

engage in terrorist activities" .

Newsweek believes "the US military is

inevitably affected by all the problems of

society at large - including the spread of

gang-related crime and violence". Though they

add "it is still surprising that the

military, supposedly a bastion of good order,

is being shaken by gang activity in the

ranks".

"The navy doesn't like to admit [its gang

problem]," Sergeant Wes McBride of the Los

Angeles Police Department, himself a former

marine, told the magazine, "because it

destroyed the image of discipline." But

Newsweek said it had obtained confidential

documents suggesting that the forces were

taking steps to control the problem.

It said that the commander of the navy's

Pacific Fleet, which supervises navy bases

all along the West Coast, warned commanders

about rising gang four years ago, and the

investigative Service had begun a

computerised system to report and track

gang-related incidents.

In addition, the army and air force manuals

warn: "The influence of gangs appears to be

growing and the frequency of gang violence

related to the USAF will likely increase.

There is no such thing as a `wannabee' . If a

person wants to be a gang member, acts and

dresses like a gang member, he is a gang

member and just as dangerous."

The manual now also lists descriptions of

gang hand signs and gang colours to help

criminal investigators spot covert gang

activity.

Ethnic NewsWatch ) SoftLine Information,

Inc., Stamford, CT

Gregory Francis, Vivienne; Vistica, LA street

gangs infiltrate US army: The Crips and the

Bloods have., Weekly Journal, The,

07-27-1995, pp PG.

[EiZei 0]

Lower recruiting standards bring in less-than-desirable material.. how surprising.

I do wonder why this is going on so openly, as far as I know UCMJ is a hell lot stricter than the civilian equivalents.

And lastly, does the US military still boot you out for being a butt bandit and not keeping it secret?

Gangs senting their members into the military for training and etc. has been a problem for more than a decade. The lowering of recruiting standards in the last year or so did not create this problem. Here is a article from 1995....

Still, it's probably not helping either.

[martinovic 0]

this isn't about the "need", but the opportunity.

As long as there is an opportunity to sell anything, it will be sold, and since the old soviet equipment is so easy (as poeple say) to obtain, it will continue until there is a single firearm left.

But why is it so easy to obtain? Why is the opportunity there? Because people are poor and they are sick of it. Your morals strengthen with your wallet.

[EiZei 0]

this isn't about the "need", but the opportunity.

As long as there is an opportunity to sell anything, it will be sold, and since the old soviet equipment is so easy (as poeple say) to obtain, it will continue until there is a single firearm left.

But why is it so easy to obtain? Why is the opportunity there? Because people are poor and they are sick of it. Your morals strengthen with your wallet.

Tell that to your average overpaid CEO, you know, the kind that are willing to commit felonies in order to earn 150mil instead of 100mil.

[herman01 0]

Makes sense, Ive recieved some great drive by training with my military experience. Its probably a sensationalized topic but there no doubt in my mind that it would occur in todays world.